"F" in 1 class

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by Columbia, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Columbia

    Columbia New Member

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    so what happens to a Plebe if they fail one class in the first tri (Physics or Calc)? if other grades are good to OK can they retake the class? or are they disenrolled? I heard last year for plebes it was 1 "F" and you are out - with no review board sympathy.
     
  2. jessibee2013

    jessibee2013 Member

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    I think the best answer is "it depends..." but what it depends on, I don't think we outsiders will ever know for sure.
    I wish your DS the best of luck, and I'll pray his "it depends" swings in his favor.
     
  3. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Hang in there. This will be a time of uncertainty and it may or may not take a twist or turn. If your plebe only failed one class, the "it depends" could very well work out positively for your plebe. You will know more by end of day tomorrow (probably) because that is when the ARB (Academic Review Board) meets. They were scheduled to meet today, but it was moved. After ruling on each mid that has failed one or more classes, they will email their decision and action(s) to the midshipman.

    Best of luck and please know we are keeping a good thought for you and your family.
     
  4. bugsy

    bugsy Member

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    Status

    Wondering what resulted from the "F". My DS told me that he knew of some Mids that were already told that they should plan for a summer school re-play of a particular class.
     
  5. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    ARB supposedly met yesterday. Have not heard if anyone has received any info.

    Wonder if Dr. Kumar has two "votes" now that he is the Acting Sup? If so, that really could make things a little different.
     
  6. WisconsinMMAMama2015

    WisconsinMMAMama2015 Member

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    With regards to the "one failed class", DS says that the explanation given on pages 63 and 64 in the current 2011-2012 USMMA catalog (Academic Status, etc.) is the rule they are using. The short version is apparently "A MIDN with only one F will attend summer school to take care of it. They will get a letter of academic warning or probation as the case may be." Hope this helps:smile:
     
  7. aooga15

    aooga15 Parent

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    ...

    summer school
     
  8. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Generally summer school or a "lag" class is the way a single class failure is remediated.
     
  9. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Sadly this will, more than likely, be my last post.

    My DS has been dis-enrolled. He failed Economics this past tri., was referred for dis-enrollment and Dr. Kumar took a hard line position and up held the decision.

    The chair of the Academic Review Board is Assistant Academic Dean Taha. She made the recommendation for dis-enrollment. With the current mix up at the top levels, the appeal Board consisted of The Commandant of Mids; DeStafney, Ms. Taha (yes the same one that recommended dis-enrollment), and Dr. Kumar acting as the Super, even though it is fairly easy to understand he is still the Academic Dean as well.

    My DS failed Celestial Nav third tri and was recommended for dis-enrollment then. Admiral Greene over-ruled Dr. Kumar then. He took Cel Nav and Statistics and Prob in summer session, not many students had to take two classes during summer....he never understood why Stats and Prob was piled on.....because he had not taken it yet. Anyway, he succeeded. That moved him from "Deferred Dis-enrollment" to "Academic Probation" status. During last Tri he made an A, two B's, a C, and the F in Econ. Being on academic probation, the choice by the ARB was dis-enrollment. He appealed. No one thought it would be probable for him to be dis-enrolled. Possible yes, but given the fact he had raised his GPA from a 1.95 to a 2.5 (2..5 even with the ZERO in econ mind you) most thought he had clearly demonstrated the right level of interest and ability. The Econ class has been mentioned on and off on here before. It is what it is. A well known and long tenured professor, a highly unusual grading system, only three grades during the entire Tri., etc. DS messed up the final exam (50% of his grade) and it cost him. Boy, did it cost him.

    He was set to go to sea, all paperwork in hand, waiting for a ship....but first the appeal. The appeal came across like a formal technicality. Dr. Kumar remembered wanting him gone before, and did not think he had made any improvement, Ms. Taha stood by her original position, so, at the speed of a pen stroke he is a Midshipman no more. After giving two years, and signing to give much more, the final moment came instantly. It came without so much as a thank you for your willingness to serve your country. It came without any sense of honor.

    This is a tough time. He has been judged by those currently in command. They make decisions and move forward. So must the young people affected by those decisions. You make your own luck sometimes. He made his bad luck by a previous failure. He failed the Econ course and must take his life in another direction now. The future is not so bright and the optimism has been diminished. It will take time.

    DS made some great friends at KP. I met some folks that are now a permanent part of my life as well. Pete Rackett, Capt. Reid Bonadonna, Capt. Robert Johnson, to name a few.

    I doubt if many in our shoes would ever share something so personal and painful. We are people of faith. We must find a way to be comforted with the fact DS is a child of God and he will be led where God wants him to be.

    Please keep a good thought for DS and our family.

    Fair Winds and Calm Seas to you all..... and best wishes for your midshipman's success.
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    The good thing about his making friends at KP, they won't forget him.

    We invited some of our classmates who were kicked out of CGA to our homecoming.

    Failing a class while your on academic probation is a pretty sure way of getting the boot. For my class that really happened in the 4/c and 3/c years.

    Academics are tough at academies, there's so much to juggle. USMMA almost compounds that with trimesters and sea semesters. He should take comfort that his time there was honorable and he wasn't disenrolled for disciplinary reasons.
     
  11. kpbaseballmom

    kpbaseballmom Member

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    I think that every parent who reads this can relate. It seems like we are all on the head of a pin at this school, ready to fall off at any time. I certainly feel that way.

    I would encourage your son to look at the state schools, especially SUNY Maritime. There are a fair number of former KP students there and the school is definitely understanding of his circumstances. Their teachers are very knowledgeable and many have taught and graduated from Kings Point. And your son will have the luxury of being able to pick his professors and perhaps take a lighter load some semesters. My mid said that he ran into many graduates from the state schools at sea, especially SUNY and Mass Maritime and has great respect for their abilities. If you are not a NY resident you can still get in state tuition if you don't have a maritime academy in your state. Also, they have naval reserve program and you can get some financial help through that program.

    Yes, SUNY doesn't have such a strict regiment and there is less pushing by the school about the license. But those students who are self motivated (like your son) graduate with the license and have wonderful job opportunities. So all is not lost - just a regrouping is necessary. Maybe he will do some classes at a community college, get them out of the way and then continue his maritime education, if that was his goal. Best wishes to you and your son.
     
  12. eagleone

    eagleone Member

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    Econ?!

    So what is going on with Economics at KP? I can understand failing Celestial Navigation, Calculus, or Physics, but not Econ. It is hard to believe that a single professor could cause this sort of academic carnage, on a class the should be of average difficultly at best.

    What other unexpected academic sea mines are there at KP?
    .
     
  13. riroka

    riroka Member

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    I am sorry your DS and family are going thru this. I can so clearly remember struggling in a class and that sick feeling you have knowing you are trying SO HARD and still not succeeding. Your DS is going through alot emotionally right now. Once the shock is over I say pick him up, brush him off, give him a huge hug and move on. These boys are doing their best and now it is time support plan B. He will do great with such supportive parents!

    Best of luck and please post and let us know how things are going!
     
  14. KPMum2012

    KPMum2012 Parent

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    2013 Parent - I am so sorry this happened. Please do have your DS look at the State Maritime Academies. I wish him all the best as he tries to figure out what to do next. It really is hard to have come that far and see the dream slip away. I hope he can find another way to get where he wants to be. Oh, and thank him for his willingness to serve.

    kpbaseballmom - Yes, they should warn us all that what we don't pay in tuition, we pay in worry. It does feel as if it could all fall apart on a moment's notice. I worry with every tri. I worry that things that didn't equal disenrollment before may end up there now with no warning. The closer we get to graduation, the more nervous I become. I can't imagine her trying to start over after putting so much into KP already.

    eagleone - Yes, Econ is problematic largely due to the way it is taught. DD came close on that one. Those in her section who failed it were given the option to retake it in an online class that did not involve that professor. Engineers need to be aware of the pitfall that is Engineering Chem too. DD's section lost a few people after fall tri of 2C year because of that class.
     
  15. aooga15

    aooga15 Parent

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    best of luck

    I'm so sorry, 2013Parent, to hear of this outcome. :frown:

    Best of luck to your DS and to the next chapter in his life!
     
  16. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    2013Parent:

    Sorry to hear and best of luck to your son and family in the future. I was prompted to reply by one thing in your last post:


    I really hope these feelings quickly pass for you and in particular your son, as you point out he has weathered and come through several storms and was stronger for it. Raising ones GPA at USMMA after Plebe year is tough becuase of the large course and credit load already in the bank so to speak. While there is nothing I think any of us can say here to take the feeling away, I'll be hoping and praying that he quickly come to understand what he did accomplish, how hard that was and use that to see his future is indeed bright, with or without the USMMA.

    eagleone:

    In response to your question of "what is going on...." at the top level LineInTheSand captured it well in his statement:

    A trimester at USMMA is basically a 16 week semester crammed into 13 weeks, additionally during the time you are on campus (3 years) four years woth of course work are crammed into three so you have a large courseload as well and of course the regiment and at your option (which most take to to stay sane) your extra-curricular/athletic commitments. In that regard, there are many, myself included, that feel getting through USMMA to graduation might be the toughest of all the Service Academies to do that at. Finally in this case "economics" there are a couple of threads that chronicle the challenges that a trimester in this particular tenured and well published/heeled professor's class presents.
     
  17. KP2013dramamama

    KP2013dramamama Member

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    And what might those threads be to which you are referring in "Finally in this case "economics" there are a couple of threads that chronicle the challenges that a trimester in this particular tenured and well published/heeled professor's class presents." Thank you.
     
  18. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

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    Here's at least one of those threads...

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?p=166626#post166626
     
  19. norcalmom2014

    norcalmom2014 Member

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    This BAD teaching makes me see red!

    :thumbdown:

    As I read this thread, knowing that my DS still has to take Econ. all I feel is complete dread and utter disgust. I have been a teacher myself for 32 years and I am outraged that this Econ professor is employed at KP. Isn't the idea that students learn something? Why is this kind of person kept on? Is the point of the "learning" at KP to just play games with students' heads to see how weird you can make your tests, grading system, etc.? I will never understand it nor agree with anyone who would look the other way with teachers like this econ guy. I don't care if a course is tough, but to make it into some kind of game about tiny details in a book, is such a discredit to good teachers everywhere who care if people learn things as well as a huge red mark on KP as an institution of learning.

    And am I worried about my DS's fate, yes. How could you not be if students don't even know what to study nor how to approach a class so unreasonably assessed. In my many years of teaching I have seen this kind of person more often than I would like. These are what I call the "publishing-non-teachers" who got into an instittution long ago but have never had any understanding of teaching, learning, assessing, but more important, they just don't care anyway.

    But, again. We can do nothing to change this place. I pray to God that my DS "makes it through" even though it looks like he won't learn a darn thing.

    And of course, I am so terribly saddened by this disenrollement. Keep your chin up. There are just no words to express my sorrow about what your DS has gone through. Blessings to your family.
     
  20. majmattmason

    majmattmason Member

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    Is it any wonder why the graduation rate at USMMA is abysmal? Prior administrations had the "One F and you're out" policy, thought it had passed when they left, but apparently not. Worst graduation rate of all the academies.

    There is definitely life after USMMA and your son will always have friends from there for life. It's the Academy with the unique reputation that two-thirds of the class will NOT graduate, not a good reputation to have and it's not because they are so demanding. The other Academies seem to be able to retain most of their classes and graduate the majority of them with no problem. Why is this such an issue with Merchant Marine?
     

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