F35 crashes in south china sea

So he hit the back of the boat? Wouldn't the tail hook have ended up grabbing a wire on the way as well? I'm not experienced in naval aviation but it seems like there's definitely something up here, especially watching the landing gear fold like a house of cards. That gear is beefed up to handle HUGE landing impacts. Maybe he was too heavy, too low, and too slow? I think I heard "mil power" right before "wave him off! burn burn burn!" so it appears that the pilot at least attempted to get higher.
 
Yeah. He "hit the back of the boat". We don't say that, (it's a "ramp") but that's what happened. ;)
Naval aircraft do in fact have purpose-built landing gear to deal better with hard landings, but that was not a "hard landing". That was a crash.
After he smacked the ramp, there was probably no tailhook anymore, so that's why it didn't grab one of the three arresting cables.

Kinda makes you wonder if this guy was even looking at the meatball. It had to have been red, so why didn't he go around?
 
A ramp strike or hitting the "round down" - that aft most part of the flight deck that slopes down toward the water- are interchangeable ways to describe what occurred in this mishap. Not good either way for the crew or flight deck personnel.
 
Man, I would not want to be on that ship right now. Probably have the entire ship on lockdown for awhile. Not even so much because of the crash, but because they have now had 2 idiots leak videos of the incident. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out who recorded and leaked the videos though, especially the second one.
 
These crashes are rare and when they happen they naturally get a lot of attention. But I have recently been reading some accounts of carrier operations during WWII. The number of crashes and operational losses was ENORMOUS. A lot of planes went over the sides of the escort carriers in particular.
 
Article 15 (Captains Mast) No Court Martial. Punishments vary at the discretion of the Commanding Officer.
 
To pile onto @AF6872
Non-judicial is administrative in nature, not a criminal proceeding, but there is still a hefty table of punishments (reduction in pay grade, fines, extra duty, etc.). It allows the CO to swiftly deal with a conduct matter not rising to a court-martial offense. Additionally, at sea, the accused may not exercise the right to a court-martial, which can be done ashore. Article 15 is very streamlined.

For the chiefs, having this in their record means no more promotions. If they had gold “longevity” stripes on their dress uniform sleeves, those will now be red. They can continue to serve and eventually retire - if allowed to reenlist - but this is a massive dink in their record.

I found myself wondering if the ensign was an LDO, Limited Duty Officer, a crash expert type, experienced prior enlisted, who had business in the space, rather than a still-new officer. Regardless, that officer’s career is now completely stalled. Will definitely not promote, will get their required number of annual “looks” (I think it is 3) at the promotion board, and be separated, unless they are retirement eligible.

Proof positive that the “Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time” Club has a thriving membership.
 
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justdoit19 said:
Any commentary on what their punishment is? What does ‘non-judicial’ mean?
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To further expand on the Capt's explanation, the rank of those who are accused in this case really limits the direct punishment that can be awarded at Captain's Mast (Marines call it "Office Hours") but as Capt MJ said, the CAREER implications are severe indeed. For lower level folks (E-6 and below), the punishments can include reduction in rank, significant fines, restriction and several other penalties but they are generally not so severe on a career basis. An example of this would be a former Marine that I know who made Corporal three times as in made it, got it taken away due to <dumb stuff>, worked his way back up, got it taken away AGAIN due to <dumb stuff> and then climbed the ladder yet again. Now, a couple of decades later, he is a VERY well respected senior Naval Officer in a staff community who is a very respected leader and mentor.
Chiefs and Officers who go to NJP will very likely not be in the Navy at all within a few years as they will either not be allowed to reenlist or be moved out.
.
NOTE: Personal experience as a CO at NJP is that it is very tough but can be an effective tool. My first NJP as a Reserve CO was an E6 when he walked in and an E4 when he walked out. . . He already had a suspended sentence from the prior CO and he re-offended.
 
Wow. Why would anyone even risk all of that?? I don’t understand humans, sometimes….
 
justdoit19 said:
Wow. Why would anyone even risk all of that?? I don’t understand humans, sometimes….
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It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Conduct hearings at USNA - “adjudications” - are run along the same lines. Administrative hearing, streamlined, presiding officer has a table of punishments to refer to, can also forward up the chain recommending separation.
 
In the "old" days when you carried hard copy military records folder from one assignment to another an Article 15 without reduction in rank might get lost in transit. 12,000 miles is a long way to travel with a lot of heavy paperwork, just saying, heard from a friend. It seemed like a good idea at the time according to my friend.:scratch:
 
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THParent said:
Yeah. He "hit the back of the boat". We don't say that, (it's a "ramp") but that's what happened. ;)
Naval aircraft do in fact have purpose-built landing gear to deal better with hard landings, but that was not a "hard landing". That was a crash.
After he smacked the ramp, there was probably no tailhook anymore, so that's why it didn't grab one of the three arresting cables.

Kinda makes you wonder if this guy was even looking at the meatball. It had to have been red, so why didn't he go around?
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100% to the comment above . One of the first lessons taught to all flight students, that my DS now teaches to his flight students - "When in any doubt, go around" - fly the pattern, circle back around, get in an ideal position, and land safely. It's amazing when a pilot knows one or more of the angle/ altitude/ wind speed/landing conditions/ speed factor(s) is just simply not right, and yet attempts cram it in there so to speak and suffers - can lead to a lost of lift / a hard landing, and very bad things. I don't know the specifics of what happened to the F35 incident, but generally, - if any doubt, go around holds.
 
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If you read the entire, redacted, report. The F-35C has an automated engine control that ensures appropriate thrust on landing approach to the carrier. It was not engaged. In the pilots defense, it is in the checklist as "As Required." In this case it was clearly required. The accident report has stated that this will now be a required item on landing aboard.

And many approaches to carriers aren't just "eyeballs on the ball" anymore but automated using digital flight controls assisted by autopilot, etc. Again, not being an F-35C carrier qualified pilot, I'm "speculating" from my flying knowledge and from speaking with friends that were qualified carrier pilots. Their consensus was: "lots of things wrong here but bottom line, the pilot didn't notice the sink rate, the decaying flight path, and the imminent ramp strike." The report called this "pilot error." That's a damning conclusion.

Now, to my naval aviator friends here...the FNAEB will make a recommendation on the pilots future...with this kind of report, what would that "probably" be? Any educated guesses from past accidents?
 
Thanks @Herman_Snerd for the thread necromancy. :)

I don't know, @flieger83. In my day, I saw pilots (Marine pilots, mind you) keep on flying after "pilot error" incidents in their records.
Naval Aviators always said that they were better than us and were held to a higher standard ;), so maybe this one thing loses your wings today?

You are absolutely right on the OLS. That was my age showing. They probably don't even use that system anymore.

It would appear that they did successfully recover the aircraft. Put that one in the win column.
 
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