Factors for 3yr v 4ys ROTC?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Vista123, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Vista123

    Vista123 Member

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    Ive done a search because I am sure this has been answered before, I was unable to find the answer so if someone else finds it and can provide a link, that would be awesome.

    My Questions:

    1.)what factors do cadet command use during the admission boards to determine if one receives a 4 yr or a 3yr scholarship?

    2.)I read that 66% are 3 yr scholarships. Is that accurate?

    3.)Do the 4 year scholarships go in earlier boards or are they evenly distributed?

    thanks a bunch
     
  2. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    It changes every year, so it's something you can't control.

    1.) Allocations
    2.) No
    3.) Depends
     
  3. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    My Questions:

    1.)what factors do cadet command use during the admission boards to determine if one receives a 4 yr or a 3yr scholarship?
    I am only guessing here so please take with a grain of salt. I believe the cost of the school the canidate puts on the application may be a big factor. IS tuition vs OOS tuition as well , only so much money in the pot. Also I am guessing that CC may offer a 4 yr to a cadet that they feel is exceptionally well qualified in terms of GPA, class load, varsity sports,leadership, etc.. They may also be looking for canidates that have shown long term committment in all they do (student gov't, althletics, community service), by this I mean they were involved in these types of activities since they were freshmen in HS and not just added in the last 2 years of HS.
    2.)I read that 66% are 3 yr scholarships. Is that accurate?
    That sounds correct.

    3.)Do the 4 year scholarships go in earlier boards or are they evenly distributed?
    DS received a 4 yr., his packet was reviewed by the second board only and he recieved a schoilarship offer from the second board. I would guess they are eveny distrubtited amongst the 3 boards.

    There are 2 ROO's that post often Clarkson and Marist. They would be the very best source of answers for these types of questions.
    Best of luck.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would listen to clarkson regarding your second question. The reason why is because of question number 1.

    I would also say that people need to remember that although the avg person thinks sequestration ends on Sept 30th, the DoD budget still has to cut 10% of their budget again this yr. and will for many more yrs.

    Just my 0.019753 cents, but if they have to cut money/pinch pennies, ask yourself where that cut will come from...AD or ROTC? It can mean that last yr they had more 4 yrs than this yr.
    ~~~~ I.E. AF cut their budget about 4 yrs ago. One yr group, they even cancelled ICSP. They cancelled non-rated OCS boards. The AFA did not ask for a waiver to go over the 4400 max, and cut the incoming class size by @20%. (1650 apptmts to 1350).

    My questions would be:
    How is the Army standing right now with their budget?
    ~~~~ With troops still in the sandbox, and Syria causing issues, will this impact anything from their original draw down plan? If so, where is that money going to come from if the DoD has to stay within this current budget.----Obviously, the Navy right now is going to chew up a lot of that money from a strike position.
    ~~~~ Will the DoD take from AF/Army to help the Navy budget. I.E. robbing Peter to pay Paul?


    If so, will the USMA applicants be a factor for ROTC scholarships?

    Is the USMA constricting their class size? If they are, than from a rational pov, you will have more cadets taking the scholarship, due to a lower appointment chance.
    ~~~~ These candidates typically have strong WCSs, and many apply to ROTC as plan B. Thus, there maybe lower chances of getting to switch dets come spring. Please look at the AFA 300 cut remark above.


    Will they cancel summer training programs instead, but keep the scholarships at the same level if the budget takes the hit?

    IOTW, they may keep all of the scholarships at the same level, but cut summer training except what they consider mandatory.
    ~~~~ AFROTC did exactly that. SFT is basically all you get now as a ROTC cadet.


    Honestly, I would be looking right now at the big picture, which is the DOD budget when it comes to ROTC.
     
  5. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Not disputing anything mentioned above, but on another thread they listed $41 million in scholarships issued by CC.

    In my opinion that is a drop in the bucket spent by the Army.
    I would think that like most budgets certain dollars are earmarked for certain things. They may have 41 million ear marked for scholarships and and decide that cutting it 10% or whatever isn't substantial enough to bother.
    Again, just a thought. I don't believe you will see a substantial amount of dollars pulled out of ROTC.

    Training opportunities may be cut down some, but again, the schools the Army runs (Airborne, Air Assault) are going to keep running. my opinion again.

    As far as draw down of troops, I know where we live they are still sending guard units overseas all the time, they are bringing them home after nine months though and not extending their time.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I expect that every dollar counts these days given the sequester. When they're cutting all important flight hours you know every dollar counts.

    The key driver of money in ROTC programs is how full is the pipeline compared to the number of officers they need. If they need fewer officers (which is the case these days) then dollars may very well be pulled from ROTC programs because they need to restrict the flow in the pipeline.
     
  7. Packer

    Packer Member

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    You got it. ROTC scholarships are simply a recruiting tool. If they need fewer officers they can and will do less recruiting.
     
  8. 1RIR

    1RIR Member

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    At my DS college, 4 year s/ships have been reduced over the last two years.


    Year 2011-12 8 x 4 year s/ships
    Year 2012-13 4 x 4 year s/ships
    Year 2013-14 1 x 4 year s/ships
     
  9. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    I'm going to be the skeptic in this case. I'll believe a big reduction in ROTC recruits when I see it (speaking Army).

    More to reserves and guards and less to active duty, possible and probable. Fewer out of OCS, I think that has been established that's the first cut. Fewer at SA's, I think they are getting back to their normal class sizes.

    When Cadet Command announces that they reached their quota for the first time, (as posted on another thread) I don't think they'll drastically reduce that number for a while.

    Fewer 4 yr sships and more 2 and 3 yr, I think that is a way to get more recruits maybe or not waste money on sship winners that drop after the first yr.
    Spending the same money but in a wiser fashion. Show us you deserve it and want it before we give it to you.
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I believe that is about right in my DD's battalion. Fall of 2011 saw about (4) four year, maybe (6) three year. Fall of 2012 saw one (1) four year, and don't remember the number of three year.. I do not know how many 3.5, 3, or 2 year scholarships were awarded on campus by the PMS/Brigade/CC. Don't know about Fall 2013. Battalion has about 60 cadets. This particular battalion has a lot of State sponsored scholarships as well.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Son's Battalion had:

    3 each 4yr 2011
    4 each 4yr 2012
    6 each 4yr this year 2013

    There were some 3yr thrown in the mix as well.

    I guess it depends on the Battalion and as Clarkson said, Allocations.
     
  12. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    :thumb:

    I don't know the numbers but I know the scholarships at son's school have increased over the past couple of years. Some of that I believe is due to the ROO and PMS being more active in recruiting.

    The summer opportunities have increased drastically also due to the HR, ROO and PMS. They had a couple of cadets that did LDAC as well as airborne and air assault this past summer. They were active in finding unused slots even if it meant cadets had a couple days notice.
    Pretty much if you had good APFT's and GPA's and wanted to they were finding schools or programs for them to do.
     
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    When I first heard that the Army was moving towards more three year ROTC scholarships, I thought the same as you posted above. Why waste money on people that are not serious? I've since wondered how this might affect diversity recruiting. Not necessarily racial diversity but also economic diversity. Does 2 and 3 year ROTC scholarships tend to make ROTC only accessible to the cadets that have the economic means to fund 1 or 2 years of college? If we really want the officer corps to mirror the enlisted ranks then we will certainly want to provide opportunities for the poor to join ROTC and attend college. I would think an extra year of ROTC would be considerably less expensive than a year attending one of the prep programs at the SAs.
     
  14. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Good point.

    But I wonder exactly how much financial diversity there is to start with.

    How many people that receive a 4 yr s-ship would not pursue a commission or attend college anyway. Granted they might look a little harder at the schools they would go to and perhaps not attend a 40k yr private school.

    I would bet that most of the students that pursue these s-ships could probably afford (or parents afford) or be willing to take student loans for at least one yr. especially if they knew they had the next 3 yrs paid for. I doubt there are many that say well if I don't get a 4yr arotc scholarship then I just won't go to college.

    Just thinking.
     
  15. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I can only speak for the state in which I live.

    If a student's family income falls below a certain line, and it's really not that low, they can qualify for what is called the Husky Promise which gives them a 4yr free ride at the UW. Other state programs are in place for other universities and colleges in the state.

    If a student is low income there is FAFSA and other programs that can take care of the first year.

    If a student is above that income line then they are in the same boat as every other student that has to take loans.

    If we are talking about the poor there are programs, grants, and scholarships available if they apply that would help with the first year of school should they be awarded a 3yr scholarship. Listing schools that they can afford the first year or minimize the loans is good first step. A couple cadets in my son's battalion took their first two years ac a CC and then transferred and attended LCT.

    Joining the NG and becoming a SMP cadet in the AROTC is another option to help with the cost of schools.

    I really do not see a problem with economic diversity given the many options out there for low income students.
     
  16. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I believe FAFSA limits the max amount of loans to students to first year students to $5500. That would need to cover tuition, books and room and board. I can tell you that in Pennsylvania that would not come close if your family was too poor to help.
     
  17. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

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    I can tell you that $5500. is also about half for my sons total for one semester in Louisiana. DS received 4 yr scholarship. He has state tuition paid. But with the added fees, room and board, meal ticket, books and all it is still not all covered.

    Also, I believe that DS's school gave out 8- 4yr scholarships this year. Most were to out of state cadets. Don't know why? I wonder if less in state students applied or what?
     
  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Granted, $5500 would not cover the entire cost for the first year for a cadet that received a 3yr scholarship.

    Even families that don't qualify for FAFSA or other low income programs find it hard to meet the costs of college, the problem of funding college these days hits even those that are not low income.

    Since a ROTC scholarship covers either tuition or R&B (unless they attend a college that kicks in R&B) most cadets will have to come up with the balance even with a scholarship. Even though both our sons had 4yr scholarship, there was still the cost of R&B, for the last two years our older son lived in an apartment with roommates, this cut the R&B costs by more then half of the university cost, I know a lot depends on what city the university is located, I imagine NYC would be considerably higher.

    While diversity in ROTC is becoming more important, economic diversity doesn't seem to be a priority when giving scholarships. While there are some students whose families are able to make up the difference in cost, there are still many that need to take some sort of student loan to cover the first year and the balance after the scholarship, not all of them are low income.

    I guess, to me at least, a 3yr scholarship will be a big help toward the cost of college, including those from low income families. The only way this would be different is fi the Army started giving scholarship based not only merit but need, I'm not sure that will happen anytime soon.

    There are many options out there to lower the cost of school, CC's, attend a university close to home and live at home if possible. These are all options we would have looked at if our son's had not received a scholarship, it would have been their choice to either save money or take out student loans.

    Since scholarship cadets are not the majority in ROTC, there are many cadets of all income levels that are struggling with the high cost of tuition. Even a 3yr scholarship offers help with these costs.
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    +1 Jcleppe. I would say not only that economic diversity is not a priority, it's not even a factor... otherwise folks would be filling out a financial statement or the ROTC programs would be coordinating with FAFSA in some way.

    Saw a news story today that nationwide college enrollments dropped by 500K this year. Huge drop. Hopefully colleges will suffer a bit from this and wake up to the need for cost control. When there are more administrators than faculty, something is wrong.
     
  20. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    I don't believe economic diversity is a priority for scholarships either, although I think it would do a lot to help diversify the officer corps which is a concern of the military. There seems to be plenty written these days about our officers coming from a small segment of the population. The concern seems to be having a military culture separated from the civilian population.

    Having went to an inner-city school myself, I never heard of ROTC until I was at school and ended up with a NROTC scholarship recipient as a roommate my sophomore year. All you see at inner-city schools is enlisted recruiters. Sad because there is plenty of officer quality talent to be found in these schools.

    Unfortunately, the kids in these schools don't have the EC opportunities and the AP classes that many of us take for granted for our children.

    Once on campus, some of these kids find the ROTC office, though and having a few campus-based scholarships is a good thing.
     

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