General ROTC Questions

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by MomofFutureLeader, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. MomofFutureLeader

    MomofFutureLeader Member

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    DS has applied for USAFA scholarship and file complete, including interview. He has also applied to the USAFA, USNA, and USMA. Now he has decided that he wants to try for Navy ROTC as well, in case he ends up at a plan B school and does not receive the USAFA scholarship. So, my understanding is that he is required for Naval ROTC to list five colleges that have Naval ROTC programs and then actually apply to all five. He would need ACT scores sent to all five and all other required steps to be offered admission to each. Is that correct? In addition, what would happen if he were to be offered a scholarship from Naval ROTC then was offered one from USAF ROTC as well. USAF is actually his first choice if he does not end up at an academy.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    When awarded the scholarship they are informed that they have a limited amount of time to accept or decline. I think it is 45 days. Not acknowledging within that time frame equates to declining the scholarship.

    It is important to understand that because every yr somebody on here will say, that they didn't respond in the proper time period and now have been informed that they revoked it, followed with WHY would do they do this, it isn't fair!

    I know with AFROTC the scholarship is binding once signed, and the only way you can get out of it is if you are appointed to an SA. SA's trump scholarships. That is why you will read people saying their child held onto their ROTC scholarship until A day at the SA, in case BCT didn't go as planned.
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    In addition to what Pima mentioned above - yes, you will have to go through the normal college application process at each of the five schools your child lists on the NROTC application.
     
  4. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Each college's admissions policy is different. Generally MOST colleges do require that ACT/SAT scores, along with HS transcripts be included as part of the application process. Keep in mind (as you're probably aware) that the admissions process to civilian colleges is completely separate from the ROTC applications.
    Most people accept all/any ROTC scholarships from any branch that they are fortunate enough to receive them and then wait until after the SA TWE/BFEs come out in the Spring (and sometimes sooner) to decide what to keep and what to decline. There isn't a legal issue with accepting more than one ROTC offer, just remember to decline it as SOON as you know you are not going to use it.

    You usually have until at least May 1st to decide if you want to accept an appointment to a SA. You definitely do NOT want to accept more than one of those offers (if you are fortunate enough to receive multiple).

    JMPO....but I don't think that anyone should apply to a SA or for an ROTC scholarship if they are not willing to serve as an officer in that branch. Not implying that is the case with your son, just sharing an opinion.

    Good luck to both of you!:thumb:
     
  5. MomofFutureLeader

    MomofFutureLeader Member

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    DS absolutely wants to serve. 1st choice by far is USAFA, followed by USNA then USMA. He has an LOA to USMA. He currently is medically DQd for USNA for color deficiency and hoping for waiver. We realize that anything can happen so are pursuing college options as well. AF ROTC is complete and waiting for word. USNA ROTC is just getting started but we will make sure to have complete as soon as possible. Concern is whether color deficiency will again be an issue. He is pursuing numerous other scholarship opportunities as well. One concern I had was if he was offered NROTC then AFROTC came through later that he would be locked into NROTC if he accepted that one first then AFROTC came along. We are really taking to heart pursuing other options since he has only USMA offer on the table and MOCs have not yet met to choose nomination recipients.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with agagles, remember college is 4 yrs of attending college and ROTC, but after graduation for AF and Navy it is at least 4 yrs of living AD life in the military.

    99% of cadets enter with an idea of what they want to do AD, but not all know what they want to do in case they don't get that dream career. In the end you serve at their needs, and you need to be prepared just like college with plan B, that you have a plan B when it comes to your military career field.
     
  7. NewCollegeParent

    NewCollegeParent Member

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    Our expereince was DS was NAVY DQ because of color deficiency from Navy ROTC, we did not attempt a waiver because there was not a treatment. The ROTC standard is the same as the USNA from my understanding. He did recieve an AROTC scholarship and no problem with the color deficiency. Good Luck
     
  8. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I was just passing on an opinion, not questioning your son's desire to serve.

    FWIW - Last year at this time my son's first choice was USAFA, followed by USNA then USMA. He also had an LOA to USMA. He is currently a Doolie at USAFA. Good luck to your son! :thumb:
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with Newcollege, traditionally it is rare for an ROTC program waive an issue when their SA will not. I.E., if USNA says no, likelihood is NROTC will say no.

    AF and Army are not as hard to come by for waivers when it comes to color deficiency.

    He has yet to hear if he will get the waiver, so I would move forward because what if he does, but doesn't get AFA, AFROTC, USNA, and only NROTC?

    I am sure you know everyone expects AFA this yr to be a blood bath since they have announced that the amount of appointments will be @1050, compared to just 2 yrs ago when they were 1350. AFROTC has always been competitive for scholarships.

    Understand there is a difference in the PAR between the 2. AFA superscores. AFROTC does not, they only take the best sitting. Even with taking the best sitting their scores are the median of the AFA, and for Type 1 it is higher than the median, and in the mid 1300's. I believe it was 1360 for 14.

    Scholarships are perks, and if your child really wants to serve in that branch, that needs to be understood why placing it into the equation. DS even if he didn't get a scholarship would have been in AFROTC, just a different det. because of the amount of merit being offered (back in 08 he got 100K from 1 school) which would have allowed him to go because once the FAFSA was put in he would have had a free ride anyway and they had an AFROTC unit.

    Lastly, as I have said multiple times AFROTC scholarship is not a guarantee you will be commissioned even if you maintain their min gpa requirement, I believe it is a 2.8. In the course of 4 yrs DS has seen kids lose their scholarship while maintaining a 3.0+. It always happens at the same time...end of sophomore yr. AFROTC has a caveat in their system. No SFT, no commissioning, end of subject. That is why you see them leave and join AROTC in the fall of their jr. yr. AROTC does not have that caveat, but AROTC also does not guarantee AD and the AFROTC program does.

    I do not know the selection rate for scholarship vs. non-scholarship, but nationally the rate is @ the 55 percentile for attendance to SFT. My assumption would be that scholarship rate is higher than non due to the fact that the gpa is on their shoulders from minute one, but I would not push it passed the 70% marker. Which would mean if the only way your child can attend that college fiscally is a scholarship, understand the devil is in the details in that contract. If AFROTC cuts him he would still have 2 more yrs to pay for without a scholarship. It is hard enough to deal with the emotional blow of not being selected, even harder if now they may not be able to return due to the financial burden.

    Just things to ponder as you go further down the path.

    Trust me 4 yrs ago when that scholarship came I thought "Great, all he has to do is pull a 2.8 gpa and he will get commissioned!" I got the:eek: when he was already in the school that no SFT, he would lose the scholarship. Soph yr was a nail biter until Feb. It made the scholarship part feel like it was the kiddie roller coaster at your local county fair. The boards only get more intense as you go through the yrs., because now each time the stakes are even higher.
     
  10. chiromed0

    chiromed0 Member

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    What's an SFT?

    :confused:

    Okay...I give up googling this. What is an "SFT"? I can't find a reasonable answer anywhere. My DS just got an AFROTC Type 7 scholarship and I'm wanting to know more about this predicament so I can advise him correctly.

    Thanks.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Summer Field Training.

    C200 cadets in the summer of their rising jr yr will go to Maxwell for @4 weeks and train in the lovely humidity of Alabama in the field.

    The only advice you can give him is to keep his gpa up, do well for the PFT, and be dedicated. They will only have 3 semesters to prove their abilities before they go to the board.

    SFT board is national just like the scholarship boards, accept now it is not about money per se, it is about being able to remain in ROTC. Don't start fretting over it now. Once there his unit will explain the entire process and what will be important.

    As I stated before no SFT means the unit may decide to disenroll them from AFROTC and revoke the scholarship. They may elect to support them for C250 and let them re-apply again the following yr., but with the budget crunches and reduction of forces, that is becoming more of a Hail Mary Pass and less of a given.

    Every det. will have an end of semester review with the cadet, discussing their strengths and weaknesses. They will plot out what they need to do to be competitive for the SFT. Many units will tell a cadet where they rack and stack in the unit, #1 cadet, 1 of the top cadets, top 10%, 20%, 30% etc. He will know where he stands very shortly after arriving.

    It really is a detailed process where many factors play into the equation and by next yr this time you will start to understand it, in 18 months it will be on your radar, in 24 months it will be weighing on your mind constantly. Like I wrote before, it is akin to the scholarship process from an emotional and learning standpoint.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
  12. cjs

    cjs Member

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    It can happen that the waiver is granted when the SA will not, even if it rare. My son's best friend had his waiver denied by USMA however granted by AROTC when he was given a ROTC scholarship. It had something to do with vision, however at the moment I can't remember what it was. He is currently is his second year of AROTC and contracted.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Vision is always the iffy thing. For example, you can get DQ, but in the end get a waiver and it will have limitations...i.e. not pilot qualified.

    DoDMERB DQ's and it is the branch that decides if they will waive it. It is not DoDMERB. That is why the Navy may waive it, but the Army may say no. It is their needs.

    The other reason they don't like giving waivers is due to the fact that it is like health insurance and are accepting a candidate that they acknowledge has a pre-existing condition which may limit their ability to be deployed, plus they will medically be responsible for their coverage.

    For example many candidates have vision issues, where PRK would rectify the problem. The military (SA) would pick up that bill and the risk associated with it, the ROTC cadet would not be on the military insurance, so it would be on their dime. They would need permission, which is usually granted, but they also risk losing their commission if there is an adverse result.

    Cadets will do this because they want to fly and they need their vision to meet the requirements. They were never DQ'd per se from the military, they were just DQ'd from flying.
     
  14. blamblin

    blamblin Member

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    I was asking Packard a question about this earlier today because their child was offered, I think, AROTC and AFROTC scholarships. I believe they said that they could accept both and had until May to release them. Is that not the case?
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    "binding once signed"

    I don't see how that could be the case. What is bound? At the time of the signature, no money has changed hands, no services have been delivered... everything is in a holding pattern until the cadet reports for orientation to his/her AFROTC unit in August or September.

    There is no "contract" yet in December or whenever the scholarship is accepted. All that is signed is an acceptance of a scholarship for future delivery. The soonest a cadet in AF or A may contract is on the campus and after passing the PFT.
     
  16. Packer

    Packer Member

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    In addition a scholarship cadet may walk away from the program at any time until day 1 of their sophomore year and incur no penalty.

    I am not promoting this, just pointing out the rules.
     
  17. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    SFT = "Summer Field Training". Conducted at Maxwell AFB, AFROTC cadets rising from Sophomore to Junior year. Years back, all cadets who we're on scholarship automatically got a SFT slot. Now, they compete with everyone else in ROTC for a slot. Again, years ago nearly 80% of cadets who appled were accepted, now the standard rate has been hovering around 50-60% nationally. You can't commission without going to SFT!

    What does this mean for your son (and all the other new cadets lucky enough to win a scholarship)? That just because they've done well enough so far in HS to get a scholarship, you can't afford to rest on your laurels now. You WILL compete again, and being a scholarship cadet or not has little weight in the AF's decision to grant you a SFT slot. Perform poorly in academics, bust your PT test, get in trouble with the law, BECOME A PROBLEM CHILD FOR THE COMMANDER IN ANY WAY, and you might as well kiss that career good-bye. Commander's evaluation plays a huge role in who goes and who doesn't; if you're not preforming as well as the next guy/gal, you just give him (or her) the impession you don't want it as much as the next guy/gal. And then, why should he support YOU?

    Don't go off in a panic, now! Just realize that you have to put in the effort towards ROTC and get your priorities straight. College can be a time to finally feel that freedom and "goof off" / "experiment" in ways your folks wouldn't be proud of. Just ask yourself beforehand: was that "experiment" worth it towards losing your dream? Shouldn't I be out doing PT / studying instead of goofing off? Isn't MY DREAM WORTH IT?
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    To add onto Bullet's comment about the Commander. For SFT board 50% of their WCS is awarded by the Commander's rec.

    I can't recall the exact break down for the rest, but it is something like:
    10% PFT
    15% GPA
    10 or 15% AFOQT or SAT score*
    10 or 15% ranking in the unit (top 1%, 10%, 20%, etc)

    Those are ball park numbers and I am sure someone like kevster who is in the process now for SFT can verify the actual break down, or clean it up to the proper %, but the point is 50% is the Commander's rec.

    The problem child will not really have a shot if they are ranked as the lowest cadet in the unit, it is statistically impossible to make up 50% even with maxing the rest of the WCS, which theoretically you would still get dinged with the 10-15% on ranking in the unit, making it 60% of the entire WCS.

    * One thing to realize some cadets will have taken the AFOQT when they go for the board, some will not, if they have not, AFROTC will take their best sitting SAT/ACT score submitted from HS.

    e reason IMPO why is because they had a higher amount accept in those yrs than what was planned/budgeted for by AFROTC. It is also why you saw starting for the class of 2012 the drastic drop from @65% for SFT selection to 55%. Why you also saw what was once considered a blue moon event become more common, still a rarity, but a reality now for some, which was the decision to disenroll the cadet totally from AFROTC instead of placing them in C250.

    As stated multiple times before, ROTC now is repeating history of the 90's due to budget cuts. Scholarship, no scholarship should not be your priority if you want to be commissioned. Keeping your nose clean, taking it seriously and giving 1000% when you are in the program should be your only priority.
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    As for the binding comment. Let's face facts it really never is truly binding until you become a POC, which is when you are a C300 in AFROTC, up to that point you can drop, or AFROTC can dis-enroll you with no contractual obligation. It works both ways. After graduation from SFT, the AF may keep you on the hook using 1 of 2 options.
    1. Pay back the scholarship
    2. Enlist.

    DS's best friend went to SFT, graduated in the top 20%, came home and when he went back in Sept., he said the AF wasn't for him. Upon graduation from SFT he was a POC, and they informed him that if this was his decision the options I just mentioned would apply to him. He opted to take loans for 36K and paid back the AF. This was SFT 2010.

    Things also change during the yrs, and I pulled out DS's scholarship letter from AFROTC, it stated on it, that by signing which he had until May to do, he was binding, and than it had the typical caveat of you must fulfill this, that and everything else to receive the scholarship. If I recall correctly, and after going through now 3 kids and multiple college applications and scholarships my memory gets jumbled, but it came down in 2 parts. The 1st was the award (Dec), and you just sent a paper back accepting it you were given a short time frame to say yea or nay, the 2nd (May) was signing off on the college, the major and the type. That was when they placed the comment of acceptance to an SA.

    Again this was yrs ago (08) things change every yr. Also for those that do receive the scholarship, do not assume they are kidding about that return by date. This is not a situation where silence means yes, no response to them equates to you saying no and they will move forward with that premise.

    The military is about you taking control of your own path and they are not going to come back and remind you to do something. The "I didn't realize" defense is not a defense to them, even at 18. Let's be honest an 18 yo E-1 can't use that in the AD world, and if they will not accept that from AD 18 yo's who are enlisted, why would you as a potential officer try to use it expecting a different result? They see you as an adult now.
     
  20. Packer

    Packer Member

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    There is one of the differences. These kids are only getting about 3 weeks to sign. Son received letter on 12/19/2011 and it must be signed and in by 1/6/2012. If they had until May 1 like the SA "binding" would be reasonable. There are not too many reasons these kids would not know all of their options by May 1.
     

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