Help With Nominations?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by candidate2014, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. candidate2014

    candidate2014 Member

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    Hello!

    I was just wondering how likely it is to receive a senatorial nomination? To be honest, my first choice is USMA, but I would like to receive a nomination to attend USNA as well in the case that I am denied at USNA. My congressional district only allows us to choose one academy, so I was thinking about applying for a USNA nomination from one of the senators and the VP. How likely am I to be nominated by at least one of those sources?

    Thanks,
    candidate2014
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Well, that's virtually impossible to answer even if we did know which state you live in, what your stats (both academic and physical), class rank, SAT/ACT scores etc. because we are unaware of who your competition is. But it is definitely impossible without this data.

    And, what would you do with this information? Would you not bother to apply if someone here thought it was unlikely you would receive the nomination you are pursuing? I think not. Go ahead and submit the best application you can and see where things fall out. It's all you can do anyway regardless of what input you receive here.
     
  3. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I've never heard of such a thing! In fact, most MOCs (their academy coordinators, at least) are curious as to why a candidate only applies to one service academy.

    I'm not even sure it's legal for them to prohibit a candidate from seeking their nomination for more than one service academy.
     
  4. navymomwannabe

    navymomwannabe Member

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    We are required to list our first choice only.
     
  5. goldtrim3

    goldtrim3 Member

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    In Maryland, one senator requires the candidate to pick one SA the other senators has them rank by preference
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Trust me, it's done and it's legal. MOCs can handle the process however they want. This normally occurs in districts where there are many many applicants and the competition is fierce. This is how they maximize the number of folks who will get a nomination and therefore, hopefully, the number of applicants and parents, and grandparents who will cast a future vote for said MOC.

    Note that, almost by definition, the number of applicants and competition at the Senatorial level is also intense in these areas. Of course, everyone in the district will also be applying to their Senators. Plus there is everyone else in the state as well.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Here is a quick question?

    If the MOC requires an interview how are you going to answer the question why the USNA?

    If USMA is truly your top choice than why not put USMA on all 3 nom lists. Some states are incredibly competitive and the MOCs talk.

    I.E. In VA they do talk, and it is incredibly rare to get 2 noms. Additionally, some MOCs use principal, thus if they do talk and use the principal it is hard to get in off of that slate if you are not the principal. You would have to come in from the NWL.

    Ask yourself, what if they do talk and you can get only 1 nom., would you be okay if that only nom was to USNA? Would you wonder, what if I had put USMA down...would my now 1 only nom be for USMA and not USNA?

    As for the VP, remember they can only have 5 charged to them at any given time, and everyone applies for it. Or in other words maybe 1 a yr is going to be charged to the VP. The VP is typically used to get the kid in they really wanted, but could not find another path for charging.
    ~~~~ I also thought for the VP it was like Presidential, you can request it for each SA. The SA decides who to charge, not the VP.
     
  8. faststreet

    faststreet Member

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    My DS's ALO said that in our district, AF usaully has 5-10 candidates, while USMA and USNA have 10-20 apply. At the senator level those number can multiply anywhere from 5-10 times. We live in Upstate NY. Not sure how this compares to other districts.
     
  9. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I can understand a MOC refusing to nominate a candidate to more than one academy. That's fine - and legal. But they cannot prevent a candidate from APPLYING for a nomination to more than one academy. I can't imagine such a prohibition being in place. It is every candidate's right to APPLY for a nomination to ANY and ALL service academies.

    What a HUGE disadvantage to a poor kid applying in such a region who is willing to attend ANY of the service academies. In my opinion, that prohibition is manifestly unfair no matter how many candidates that region has and no matter how competitive it is. An outstanding candidate with a tremendous record should be competitive on more than one slate if his record justifies it. Ridiculous!

    It does not give less opportunities to others by placing that candidate on more than one slate because, they will not all get selected anyway. Should that candidate get multiple appointments, he is ultimately going to have to reject one of them, thus opening up another slot for somebody else.
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I completely agree.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    We do not know where the OP is located at,, but it is not uncommon for applicants near a base or an SA to have more candidates for that branch than the other branches. I.E. In CO. it is competitive for the AFA and USNA more than it is for USMA because of the AFA being located in CO.

    Additionally, remember ALO's do not necessarily match the MOC's congressional districts. Where our ALO covers, they had @10 AFA candidates, covering all of the HS's in our small county (50K people in the county). However, half of the candidates were in one district and another in a second district.

    Every yr. posters ask if their state is competitive, for the OP something to keep in mind is posters will say without a doubt the following states are extremely competitive. Their known for MOC's talking to spread the wealth. They are known for telling applicants if you receive a nom from one MOC, we will not consider you for a nom.

    Those states that come to my mind are:
    CA
    CO
    FL
    NY
    TX
    VA

    I would also say PA and MD are competitive too, but I am not positive if they "talk" or spread the wealth like the other states.

    My guess is if all of the MOCs are stating to list only 1, than they might have done this to reduce the need for talking regarding spreading the wealth.

    If I was the OP, I would contact the MOCs office. They have staff personnel that deals only with the SA. I would ask how many slates they will submit this yr. For example, if Sen A. only has 1 slate, but Sen B. will be submitting two slates, it may impact which Sen. you ask for a USNA nom. I.E. The one with the 2 will give you a higher chance of getting a nom. because they can offer it to 20 kids, instead of 10.
     
  12. SwimMomNyc

    SwimMomNyc Member

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    Pima, could you elaborate on that point?

    "I.E. In VA they do talk, and it is incredibly rare to get 2 noms. Additionally, some MOCs use principal, thus if they do talk and use the principal it is hard to get in off of that slate if you are not the principal. You would have to come in from the NWL."


    What does it mean for an MOC to "use principal?"

    My DS BGO told him that our MOC ranks the nominations that he/she gives out. BGO said Navy doesn't love that, because it takes control over selections away from Navy, where the control really should be. Is that the same concept that you are talking about?
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 Memphis.

    I am just wondering if this our politicians at work.:wink: It makes it easier to talk and coordinate for a spread the wealth, i.e no duplication on any list if they only have to deal with each one having only one on the list.

    swim.

    A principal means that if the principal is 3 Q, than the SA must offer an appointment. MOCs can chose Prin/alt. Prin/rank. Prin/unranked. They also can submit ranked, and unranked, but as far as I know only if you get a Principal and are 3 Q is the hands of the SA tied. Ranked, I always believed was them just saying to the SA, this is my top choice, but you can still override my decision. I would venture to say that your MOC is doing Prin./rank.

    I know of 2 MOCs that do Principal, at least for the AFA. In the 5 yrs here, those principals got it on their 2nd yr. They made the slate the 1st yr., but not prin. It was seen by the MOCs as their commitment to truly wanting to attend the SA since a yr later in college they decided to go through the process again, knowing that they would also commission one yr later, even though they were in ROTC and could commission that way without losing any time.
    ~~~~ It may be in some people's opinion unfair, but I do get it. I think that the MOCs opinion is not only academic, but also commitment to their goal, especially when most SAs graduating class is in the 75-80% range 4 yrs later. I don't have the stats, but it would be interesting to see if the MOCs did look at the retention rate for right out of HS compared to 1 yr in college as a ROTC re-applicant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  14. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I can understand MOCs coordinating and not allowing a candidate to have more than one nomination to the same academy. But, for a single MOC to prohibit a candidate from applying to more than one service academy, and possibly earning a single nomination to each - to me, is reprehensible.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    NO argument from me Memphis. For me, I think it is typical MOC/DC beltway world BS!. Make life easier for me, forget the fact that my job is to work for the constituents!

    That being said, the way the system is currently, legally it is their right. Let's hope that the posters living in these districts will start paying more attention to their elected MOCs and question why they are making their decisions that they do at every level.

    As we both agree on that aspect, I am sure we both agree that these same MOCs do nothing more than sign off on the slate. They have staff that is in charge of this issue.

    As we are looking at a govt shutdown, think about that and how much it costs for every MOC to have that staff, but are taking the easiest path from a work load perspective. Not a bad job to have, 3 months of the yr. it is a pressure cooker coordinating the slate. 9 mos. it is a cakewalk, just shuffling papers because the SAs are the ones that decide from there on out. Remember noms are not rolling. It is a deadline date. Additionally, it is the committee that makes the decision, not the MOC or their staff.

    OBTW for posters that have a deadline of 9/30, if the govt. shuts down on Oct 1st, expect a delay until they come back. The staff for every MOC will also be told to not report to work because they are govt employees.
    ~~~~ No whining because every single military member will report to work, but they too will not get paid. Military pay is in arrears. It will not impact them until the 15th of Oct. I am sure it will not go that long, if it goes at all, but again from this world as a soon to be military member or parent, understand the sequestration and govt shut down will impacted in more ways than the avg American who says shut it down knows.
    ~~~~ If my memory serves me correctly, accounting and finance for AF has a payroll deadline date of 7 days out. That means even if it goes for a week until the 8th. There will be no Oct 15th paydate. They will get it when they start up again, but for those enlisted and even young officers, a two week wait to the 1st of Nov. can cause financial distress while the mtg., student loans, car payments, etc are due in Oct.

    Not trying to divert the thread, but trying to illustrate why I stated it might be time to look closer to your MOC, and their positions regarding everything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I know this is a minor point, but the MOCs do not prevent them from applying to another academy. The MOCs prevent them from having a nomination, from them, to a second academy. There might still be other sources for the nomination to the second academy. (Sorry, I'm always big on 'words are important').
     
  17. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    Well, I'd be somewhat OK with that. But, still, from the OP - it seems like the candidates have to declare which is their 1st choice and that they will only be considered for a nomination for their 1st choice; which, if true, is essentially the same as preventing them from applying to a more than one service academy.

    Let's say a candidate would be willing to attend either USNA, USMA or USAFA. The candidate's 1st choice is USMA. The MOC forces each candidate to declare their 1st choice - and no other choices. Consequently, the candidate can only earn a nomination to USMA. Further, let's say, for that district, the competition is much stiffer for USMA than it is for USNA. It creates the possibility that the candidate might fail to compete successfully for a USMA nomination when he could very likely have earned a nomination for USNA had he indicated it as his 1st choice.

    Still - that process seems unfair to me.
     
  18. COmom

    COmom Member

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    And then there's the scenario where DS explains why he wants to go to USNA, hasn't applied to any other SA but gets a nom to USMA from the senator (nom to USNA from Congressional rep). Waste of a nom that some other candidate could have had....sometimes these panels are hard to figure out.
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    You're correct in your analysis. Nevertheless in your scenario they gave a kid a chance at his first choice school. Fair? Guess it's in the eye of the beholder. As the knight said in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade".... "Choose wisely".

    @COmom - I've seen that very scenario happen. I think it was last year.

    Folks, the MOCS aren't allowed to have unlimited nominations. It's a scarce resource. It's up to the applicant to be on top of their game and make the most of their opportunity. Do some folks have better chances because of geography? Yup. Just like the rest of life. I don't think of it as fair, or not fair. It is what it is. I do feel for the kids in these situations though, but that's what plans B, C, D and E are for. Not everyone who is a stellar candidate for the academies will get to attend. Someone who is a stellar candidate may not be chosen from their slate, but would have been selected from another slate for which they were not geographically qualified to apply. Fair? I'm back to it is what it is.
     
  20. Vista123

    Vista123 Member

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    In Illinois

    In Illinois one senator asks you to list only ONE S.A. and the other senator says (verbatim) to "List them in order of preference but only the top choice will be considered" . In addition the senators both talk and a person who gets a nomination from Kirk can not get one from Durbin (and vice versa).

    So for Senator noms it is 1 kid=1 service academy request. PERIOD-you know going into it so you plan accordingly.

    For representatives, it varies on how competitive your district is. Son #1 was in an extremely competitive district where only 1 was allowed but it was in addition to senator nom.

    We were then redistricted, son #2 is now in a non competitive district where more than one is allowed. (though he decided against S.As all together)

    Another friend of mine's son lives in an ILL district that wont issue a representative nom if you get a senator's nom.

    The answer is research your area and act accordingly.
     

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