If a UPT Candidate washes out, would he be able to serve in another branch?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by DevilDog, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    Let's say a person washes out of UPT, will he or she be allowed to try to go into another branch? IT is just hypothetical.
     
  2. urbonman6

    urbonman6 Member

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    washout

    Do you mean another branch as in another branch of service? if that's what you mean, then the answer is no. Once someone is commissioned in one service, their are very few if any opportunities to cross over anymore. If you mean switch branches as in changing their job, yeah, that's what usually happens.
     
  3. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    I meant cross-commission. As an enlisted man, I served with former Army and Navy people. I know a few Marines that transferred to other services too. I was wondering if officers can do the same. I personally believe Afghanistan and Iraq is not the end of the line for us in the Middle East or possibly in Asia (North Korea). I would think if we leave Afghanistan and head to IRan or North Korea, we are going to need more personel. Especially the Army and the Marine Corps.
     
  4. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I think he means "branch" as in the way the Army uses the term (e.g. Infantry Branch, Armor Branch, Military Police Branch, etc). There is no AF equivalent to that for line guys, but I think the OP is asking if you will be able to serve in another AFSC if you are removed from UPT.

    The short of it is, it depends.
     
  5. sprog

    sprog Member

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    Oops. Disregard my earlier post. I mistook what the OP was asking.
     
  6. Casey

    Casey USMA 2015

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    They have that blue to green program still going on I believe. Not sure how tough it would be to get into, but it basically takes people in the AF to cross commission into the Army as the AF tries to reduce its numbers a bit.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The real question is why you would want to x-commission? If you bust UPT, are you saying that the only reason you went AF was to fly?

    If you selected the AFA over USMA, I would hope that it was to serve the AF in any manner the AF decided. Not for getting a cockpit.

    Service before Self.

    If you selected AFA only for UPT chances, but really wanted to be on the ground in action, than you probably selected the wrong service to begin with.

    My best wishes, and I hope that this will always only be a JIC question.
     
  8. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    Have you considered that a person may want to serve his or her country? I know my son wants to serve our country and hopefully fly fighters. He came very close to picking USNA to lead Marines on the ground. He felt the best choice at that time, when he was still in high school, was to go to the AFA. These kids are still very young. If the AF does not want them maybe another branch of the service wants them. Dan Daily was rejected by the Army, and became one of the most famous Marines ever, I think he has two MofH. Granted he was an enlisted man. Audie Murphy, one of the mosr decorated soldiers was turned down by the Marine Corps then joined the Army.
    Maybe the ultimate goal is to serve ones country, does the branch a person chooses as a youngster have to be his final option?
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I have considered that many just want to serve. However, busting out of UPT is at the 22/23 yr old mark. It is no longer 17/18 and applying for an SA.

    They have spent 4 yrs being trained to lead as officers in the AF. In the AD world, it is no longer about what they want or desire, but what the service needs.

    You are taking a leap that they no longer want them. The fact is they no longer want them in the flying world, but may want them in the AF.

    Again, AF determines it if there is a commitment owed. AFA grads owe commitments to the AF. That is just the facts. It is not personal, it is business. The AF's business is to meet C status in every aspect, not to guarantee fighters or Intel or any career field for that member.

    I know 3 people personally, who jumped ship from the Navy to the AF. It does happen, but out of those 3, all of them came to the AF after their Navy commitment ended. They all flew fighters with the Navy and the AF.

    I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am just trying to say, if they bust UPT, it is not their decision to say "well, fine, I want to serve in the Marines".

    The AF has 1st dibs, and they can keep them.

    The Marines might also say, sorry, we're full, and not take them.

    In other words his desires are not top priority when it comes to the AD military. Even more so with the fact of RIFs/VSP/SERBs. You serve at their luxury.

    It appears that your child is at the AFA, why at this point are you interested in the worst case scenarios? If he is a C2C and just got his UPT slot, he still has 18-24 + mos before this would ever be an issue.

    That is a heck of a lot of time. I, myself can only take today and maybe tomorrow, I can't think about 2 yrs from now regarding the what ifs? What ifs of the future to me equates wishing my life away.

    Again, good luck, my best thoughts, I never meant to be antagonistic, just meant to say my own opinion. I am sorry you took it the wrong way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  10. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    I don't think you understood my question or maybe I did not fluently express it. It has been bantered about on this forumr, that the AF has cut ties with AFA graduates that have washed out in UPT. I am not asking this because my son wants to go into the Marine Corps. This was not even a question raised about my son. The question I have is that if one of the Services separates an individual because failure in training, in theory, could that individual join another branch of the military as an officer?
    My son is perfectly content where he is, at least as content as a 1st year cadet can be.
     
  11. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    It would depend on a few factors:
    1)What does the AF do with that person? Are they going to keep him and put him in a different branch of the AF (say aviation to maintenance) OR are they going to release him from all obligations to the AF.

    2)If released from the AF they could then apply to any of the services. At that point it would be up to that individual service to take them. Depending on the service it may require going through a new officer course. Right now with them cutting bodies I think it would be a tough sell to be accepted by another service, but it would be a possibility.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Your DS is 5 yrs out, anybody who can predict the future of every branch, I beg you to pm me the LOTTO numbers.

    Don't start thinking about this now. SO much can happen that is out of their control. Enjoy the time.

    I understand your concern, but again, it is out of your control.

    Now, if you really want to discuss realism on the what if scenario, here goes:

    Why would any other service take them in if the AF has totally cut them loose?

    The UPT student that I think you are referring to DOR'd. He came to them and said I am not medically qualified. It was a medical issue more than anything else.

    There also was another AFA09 grad who busted UPT, busted rides, the AFA x-trained him into Intel.

    It is a case by case scenario based on the needs of the AF.

    X posted with KP, but basically the same jist.
     
  13. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    Part 2 is what I was wondering. Would these people that are released from their service be eligible to enter a different branch. I thought they should be able to do it, but was not sure if there was some sort of rule against it.
     
  14. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

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    You don't seem to understand, I was not asking this with my son in mind. It was just a theoretical question. It is not a concern of mine. I feel what will be will be. If he is too be an officer and a pilot, God will see that he is. Again, this was not about my son. I was concerned after reading of people getting bounced, if they wanted to continue serving, could they?
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Again, read what I post:
    I am Polish, but I think we both said the same thing
     
  16. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Okay folks...

    IF a student is eliminated from UPT, the AF will have a board to determine what they will do with this officer.

    In the past, it was simple: they were sent to the missile career field! :eek:
    Okay...all kidding aside, but they were usually sent to another AFSC because we needed junior officers.

    That has changed in the current times. There is the possibility now that they would be separated from the service for "failure to advance/achieve minimum training standards" or words to that effect. Now...at that point, the service has do decide: do they recoup any of the education/scholarship money, etc., and does the individual have any military commitment remaining?

    IF the officer is simply discharged, it would be honorable...and they'd be free to join any other service, if that service will take them. If they have a service commitment, then I'm sure that'd have to be worked with the AF and the individual.

    This is one of those questions where we can "speculate" a lot but I believe the true answer would be: "it will depend upon each and every situation/person."

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     

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