If I don't pass my PFA, what happens? Will I get cut from the program?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by DTRapture, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    Hello! I'm a 4th class cadet of my AFROTC program in college, and I have my PFA coming up on Tuesday. The cadre and higher-up cadets have placed immense importance on this, second only to academics. My flight commander told me that if you don't get the required 75 points, you are cut from the program with no exceptions. But the thing is, I'm a non-scholarship student, and the AFROTC website states that those "who are in the General Military Course (GMC), but not on a scholarship, must attempt the test but do not have to pass". So I'm actually confused now.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I believe you are correct that they cannot cut you from the program, but let me stress to you that 75 is insanely low. I don't think that out of all of the years I have been on this site I have ever seen any AFROTC cadet score lower than an 89. My guess would be the avg here is probably around 95.

    What are you stressing over when it comes to the PFA? Run time? Sit ups? Push ups? Typically most units will do the 1st PFA within a week of starting ROTC. Did you bust that one?

    Now for why this is a huge deal in many ways.
    1. As an AS100 (USAFA calls them C4Cs, AFROTC as far as I know go by 100...400s are seniors) this is your 1st impression within your unit.
    ~ My DS was a CFC and also a PT instructor. During those times at his unit he was the pacer in the back of the pack. His job was to make sure everyone passed the run. If you were the slow cadet he was screaming your last name loud enough for everyone to hear him. Cadet Smith pick up the pace. If that did not work he would sprint in front of them to try to get them to run faster. While he did that he again would call out their name.

    It didn't end there. CFCs hold weekly staff meetings. The cadet failing the PFA will be discussed during the meeting. Iows, eyes will be on you from here on out until they get a good feel for you regarding your overall abilities.

    Caveat: My DS was in a unit that had over 250 cadets, thus, those 1st few weeks getting noticed usually occurred in a way you most likely didn't want.

    2. It is never too early to think about SFT.
    ~ See above re: 1st impressions.

    SFT selection board masks if the cadet is on scholarship or not. What is not masked is your PFT and your CoCs ranking. Hard to rank top cadet, top 10%, 20, 30 or even 50% if you fail the PFT anytime in your ROTC career. You are now on their radar.
    Caveat: medical issue

    As harsh as your cadre appears to you currently regarding the importance, they maybe looking at the bigger picture... SFT

    3. Jobs within the unit.
    ~ I know for my DS when he was in ROTC, right about now they would be racking and stacking for next semesters' positions.
    ~ Do you think they will give you an important/high vis job if you are not a top performer all around, which would include the PFT.?
    ~ See #2 regarding not too early to think about SFT.
    ~~ Bust/score low than that high vis job goes out the door and chances of ranking high within your unit will diminish quickly.
    ~~~ Yes, last year there was @90% selection rate. However, your CWC, CVWC were in that year group where the overall selection rate was 58%. Non-tech/non-rated was 17%.

    Again, it may be harsh what they are saying, but what if your year group is the 58% and not the 90%? Would you still stick it out as a non-tech/non-rated knowing that the PFT is a chunk of your score, and the low score impacted how you would rate out of your unit?

    I wish you the best of luck for this test, but I also hope you realize that with every phase in ROTC the stakes increase exponentially.

    OBTW, am I confusing you with another poster? Didn't you say before you are on tri semesters?
     
  3. Stevenson

    Stevenson Member

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    In my detachment, if you don't get higher than a 90, they will consider dropping you.

    At NSO we did a PFA to get admitted into ROTC and we needed at least 75 but everyone who got in scored above 85, a few failed.

    75 is very easy. I've noticed the run is what gets people. Run everyday. I'll be honest I wasn't in the best shape coming in but I've been running on my free time and I'm looking at 96-97 tomorrow. Pushups and situps are easiest to improve IMO. Just do some every night.

    As far as PFA goes, PIMA is right, it's an impression. When I did Form 48 counseling, the captain immediately went over the mock PFA scores since it's the only "official" thing we have since GPA isn't out yet.

    Our detachment emphasizes PT a lot, and I'm not surprised (although I think at times we seem to drift away from academics importance... a couple POCs are struggling.)
     
  4. Jbow1221

    Jbow1221 Member

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    The Cadre have a good bit of authority if they feel that you won't do well or if you can't pass the PFA. For example, there is a cadet under me and we are about to go into the FTP semester, that has never passed the PFA. Even the one we had today. The cadre have decided to drop him because time needs to be spent on those that are promising in terms of getting to field training and making it through. As a freshman I would say that most cadre will be lenient in terms of giving you time to improve.
     
  5. Zero

    Zero Member

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    They can drop you if you fail... It would take a lot more than less than a 90 PFA to be disenrolled.
     
  6. Stevenson

    Stevenson Member

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    Definitely. However, with the first PFA coming up, cadre specifically stated that they "might" drop us if we score less than 90 on the PFA. That is, our detachment is trying to go for a wing-wide 98 average and compete for #1 in the nation.
     
  7. Joekenny

    Joekenny Member

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    AFROTCI 36-2011 states the following:

    4.21.1.
    LLAB Grade Failures and PFA. All cadets must attempt the PFA. If a contract cadet receives a failing score on the PFA it does not constitute a failure of LLAB, but does warrant a CE. If a cadet meets all attendance requirements, but fails to attempt the PFA, they will fail LLAB. Waiver requests to retain cadets in AFROTC in spite of LLAB failure must be submitted via AFROTC Form 22 to AFROTC/RRFA.
    4.21.1.2. Failure to Meet Standards (Contract) or Make Satisfactory Progress (NonContract).
    4.21.1.2.1. For contract cadets, the following events constitute a failure to meet AFROTC fitness standards: failure to pass any official PFA or failure to meet PT attendance requirements for the term. 4.21.1.2.2. For non-contract cadets, the following events constitute a failure to make satisfactory progress: failure to attempt an official PFA during any term; three consecutive semesters or five quarters with PFA failures; and/or failure to meet PT attendance requirements for the term.

    I've seen plenty fourth class cadets fail their first PFA. As long as they show improvement they are allowed to stay in the program at my det. However, ultimately it is at your commander's discretion. Good luck.
     
  8. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    Push-ups. I am so terrible at push ups that it's completely laughable. On a good day, and if I'm lucky, I can barely perform 30 push ups in a minute. Even though I've been training and practicing for over a month, I still couldn't get the push ups down, and it's completely demoralizing. Sit-ups are fine; I improved from doing 25 sit ups to 45-50 sit ups in under a minute. As for the 1.5 mile run, as long as I maintain a quick pace, I should hit 11-12 minutes.

    We did not do a PFA during the starting week of ROTC, and this is going to be my 1st one, and I believe it is Week 8 for our detachment. Our college runs under a trimester year -- Autumn, Winter, and Spring -- so we will have a PFA for each of the three.

    Even if I pass, I'm expecting a relatively low score. I'll be lucky if I hit the 80-point mark. Just to clarify, as long as I show gradual but effective improvement, I can stay in the program? I want to contact my cadre officer about this, but it's an automatic red flag if I tell him prior to my PFA tomorrow.
     
  9. Stevenson

    Stevenson Member

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    As long as you hit the minimum, you should be able to stay in & begin to improve. Remember, your PFA score is part of your SFT package so you want to do the best you can. You may not score high on this one but take it as a call to action type of deal and start doing push-ups. It's not the end of the world and you are not on scholarship. Remember to also work on your form... many people have their pushups or situps not counted because of form.

    Get the pushup app. I went from 55 pushups to max in a matter of 6 weeks.
     
  10. Norfolk63

    Norfolk63 privateer

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    What pushup app do you mean?
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Jeez. Google is your friend. There are push up apps for both iPhone and Android. Just Google Push Up App
     
  12. Zero

    Zero Member

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    Sounds like an interpretation as there would be tons of paperwork to disenroll someone because they hurt your chances for an award. Let alone the leadership that is displaying.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not sure they will disenrollment, but I have heard of units where the CoC at the end of term reviews give cadets a wake up call regarding their chances of being selected for SFT especially during their fall semester 200/250 year. Many times it comes down to the cadet requesting disenrollment because they see the writing on the wall.
     

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