Interesting Article on USAFA Prep School

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by SanDiegan, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. SanDiegan

    SanDiegan Member

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  2. falconfamily

    falconfamily Member

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    Not sure this really belongs on this thread, there is a separate section pertaining to the prep schools. The story is an interesting topic based upon the current budgetary environment and there is going to be more discussion about this going forward.
     
  3. AFrpaso

    AFrpaso USAFA '17

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    I would not trade my prep school experience for anything.
     
  4. icarus

    icarus Member

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    If these statistics are accurate, is spending 100K towards a year in prep worth it?
     
  5. tradecraft

    tradecraft Member

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    Won't be long before this gets in line for the chopping block.
    Wouldn't be surprised if it happens sooner than later in this current sequestration and cut back climate. It may exist to solely prepare active priors as originally tasked.
     
  6. falconfamily

    falconfamily Member

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    The mission of the Prep School is certainly a worthy one, but perhaps they need to look at alternatives. i.e. is it more cost effective to just send someone to a regular college or a civilian prep school for one year at a fraction of the cost? The biggest question is if the $24M could be used for cadet programs on the hill better than they could be used at the prep school. The challenge in balancing this is that there is a fixed cost for keeping the doors open at the prep school, so if the desire is to keep the prep school open, how many students can you cut back to make any meaningful cost savings?

    As for the statistics, they are what they are, there is a certain culture that grows from every group at the Academy - there is an IC culture, there is a prep culture (and that varies with cadets who come from different prep schools), there are pluses and minuses to each and to the faculty at the academy they are aware of the implications.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am curious why anyone in this day and age of big buck money for NCAA television rights the AFA would stop giving Prep school slots as a red shirt option.

    The prep school is a great option for many reasons.
    ~ Let's be honest, 24 MN, is probably offset by what they receive from the NCAA for televised games.
    ~ Enlisted members entering have been out of the academic world for yrs., they may need a yr. to get back in that world.

    If we are discussing saving money, my question would be not the prep, but the falcon scholarships. Why not stop that option instead if saving money is the motive?

    Just my perspective, I hope someone that received a falcon scholarship can explain the positive from a cost benefit analysis. If these scholarships did not exist, and the funds were transferred to AFROTC, the cadets would still have the same chance of selection, would they not?
    ~~ They would go on an AFROTC scholarship, and compete nationally.
    ~ If they want an SMC life there are 7 universities that offer that lifestyle.

    The one thing in my yrs here I have seen over and over again, is the fact that candidates with strong scores academically lose out because they were not high enough for a direct admit, but too high to get a falcon or prep slot. Many also get an AFROTC scholarship, but only a Type 7 (75% of the scholarships). They opt to convert to a Type 2 3 yr., yet they hold fast out of pocket money with loans and do AFROTC, applying the next yr for the AFA.

    Again, just curious, please don't flame me. Just explain why the AF has prep and falcon scholarships? Why not have 3 clear cut paths?
    1.Direct admit
    2. Prep
    3. AFROTC scholarship

    Why the need for falcon...if you say there is no room at the inn...Prep, than you have to admit IMPO, that this article has touched on something. Prep is to prepare those student with academic shortfalls and red-shirting is a factor if the AF now has to offer falcon scholarships for the true reason prep was designed
     
  8. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna Member

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    If Falcons had lower graduation rates than direct admits or were funded by the taxpayer, your argument might make sense. Cutting Falcon scholarships would have no impact on AFROTC funds.
     
  9. haleym

    haleym Member

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  10. USAFretired1996

    USAFretired1996 Member

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  11. aseanag

    aseanag Eagle2013

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    General Gould

    Gen. Gould is a USAFA prep graduate. :thumb:
     
  12. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Maybe I've been reading too much Milton Friedman.

    Seems to me there are plenty of applicants and Prepsters aren't ready for the full academy experience. And yet, they use a spot the next year that could have easily gone to a fully qualified first-time applicant.

    Why not have them compete on equal footing. Aren't good enough to be accepted, get better and apply again. If AFA likes you, they'll accept you, if not, it wasn't meant to be.

    To me, it's a waste. Don't need to attribute Secretaries and Generals experience in Prep school as a defining moment any more than "not attending" should be considered for the many many generals and secretaries that aren't Prepsters.

    Just my opinion (and yes, it applies my feels for CGA's associated programs too).
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    First off, I asked for no flaming.

    I posed a question of why anyone would support shutting down the prep school or in this day and age of NCAA television royalties how they can expect the AFA not to use it as a red-shirting.

    Bullet worked directly for Gen. Gould, when he was ADAF. He gave the oath of Lt Col to Bullet. I know Gen. Gould was a prep cadet.
    ~If anyone thinks I think that they don't become amazing officers, than they are sorely mistaken.
    ~~ There is a poster here that can attest to Bullet's relationship with Gould. (he commissioned that AFA grad when Gould was the supe)
    ~ The AFA was lucky to have him and Phyllis. They understood the life from a cadet, parent,, ADAF and AF Reserves perspective. Their 2 sons commissioned from AFA. Phyllis was AF Reserves.

    FWIW, IMPO Gould is the epitome of officers.

    IOW please don't :bang: I don't need lessons on the importance of prep, just like you don't need me to remind anyone of the fact 50% of flag officers are now ROTC/OCS grads.

    I am not trying to offend anyone, but when we sit back and look at the current budget constraints, we need to question the cost benefit analysis.

    I get 5K seems little to nothing compared to AFROTC, but I want to learn. So tell me why a candidate would take a falcon scholarship over a type 7 AFROTC scholarship?
    ~~ Remember my position is by removing the falcon scholarship, the field will change from an academic perspective.
    ~ You either get AFA, prep or AFROTC scholarship.
    ~~~~ Many colleges offer financial assistance for costs regarding ROTC students.
    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=5429&page=2


    I will end this with, let's see when these cadets become ADAF and their pay, class start dates move because of the DoD budget. I am betting that their position will change if it means their life/paycheck will personally take a hit.

    I am willing to listen/read why falcon scholarships should exist, but say it in your word, please don't link it. Don't ask me to read the PR BS. Tell me from your experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  14. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    Pima,

    I am not following you. I'm also not being sarcastic but just trying to understand.

    How will eliminating Falcon scholarships which are funded by the not-for-profit Falcon Foundation be financially beneficial to either AFROTC or AFA? Is the assumption that this 501(c)(3) org will provide all the funds that were earmarked for Falcons directly to the AF?

    I also do not understand how elimination of the Falcons will result in "the field will change from an academic perspective" since Falcons have a higher graduation rate than either preppies or directs.

    The article posted by the OP was regarding the the USAF Prep School. I don't understand how that has anything to do with Falcons.

    Thanks
     
  15. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna Member

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    Cool. Okay. I initially turned down a Type 1 CLS in order to compete for a national AFROTC scholarship and picked up a Type 7. I ended up turning that down for the Falcon scholarship.

    Basically, I knew I wanted to reapply to the academy regardless. FF provides much better odds than applying from a university, provided that you do well in school and don't disqualify yourself in any other category (and my logic was that if I messed up badly enough to lose my FF scholarship, I probably would have also lost my AFROTC scholarship.)

    If you're arguing that the private citizens of FF (yes, most of whom are USAFA grads) are wrong for organizing and providing funds for motivated students, that's silly.
     
  16. haleym

    haleym Member

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    I've already stated my position many times, talked about my experiences, stated the facts, over and over. I've made many recommendations for MMI and told those who really want USAFA to accept the FF offer if it comes their way because of the massive opportunity it presents them. I can't make you believe me or agree with me.
    I was not flaming. Like I said, it's just frustration. I got done explaining this to someone else on the forums and then I clicked on this. I just kinda wanted to bang my head against a wall.. lol. I realized it doesn't matter what I say or if I explain my story anymore.
    It seems that no one on here is willing to listen or take the time to read up and learn what the program is about, and yet are quick to put it on the chopping block for no apparent reason- when they can't in the first place. It's not taxpayer money, it's funded by trustees. No one can exactly go and tell the trustees what they want them to do with their money, or tell them they don't like the program when they know nothing about it. We have Corona every year to show the donors that their money has been put to good use.
    I'm not quite sure why it is you think I'm trying to give you a 'lesson on prep'. I'm not attacking you. The info provided isn't BS. If you took the time to read it, you would see why the program is so beneficial and the questions posed would be answered. They aren't there for no reason. I never asked questions on ROTC or OTS officers and think they bring just as much to the table as a USAFA grad. I'm not quite sure why this red herring is thrown in here- if you think I'm under the impression that I'm above those in ROTC, you are mistaken.
    As for why someone would pick the Falcon Foundation Scholarship over an AFROTC scholarship, the answer is simple: They REALLY want to go to USAFA. Is it a more difficult route? Yes. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth it to them.
    On a side note... I'm sick of hearing about how I 'stole' some direct candidate's appointment and how I'm somehow less qualified or less deserving. I spent a whole year of my life preparing myself for this place and there are still thousands of dollars I owe for my year at MMI. I wasn't a slacker in high school and it wasn't easy. Falcons are those who JUST missed the mark, not a bunch of goofs with less than stellar GPAs and low moral character who snuck in under the radar. I consider myself incredibly lucky and blessed for the opportunity and I'm sure any other Falcon Scholar would say the same. I don't regret my decision one bit.
    Unfortunately for me, I have a very loyal personality... so when you say stuff about the Falcon Foundation I will always be quick to defend it. I'm also not afraid to say what I think. Sometimes it makes someone else mad, and yet I find it to be the right decision every time. I'm super glued to my beliefs and am not willing to sacrifice them just to avoid disagreements. :wink:
     
  17. aseanag

    aseanag Eagle2013

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    Way too go Haleym! :thumb: There are many including me that are proud of your accomplishments. Though they have different funding sources I think the Falcon prep program and USAFA prep is worthwhile investment in the future of our increasingly diverse military.

    Hold your head up high, you worked hard and you deserve your spot at USAFA.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I asked for no flaming!

    IOW educate this dumb poster.

    Don't give me links, tell me why!

    I defended not only Generals, but also the prep.

    I was attacked because I said why waste the money?
    ~~~ sorry, but even outside sources paying 5K a yr could make an impact for every college that offers AFROTC. They get donate as an alumni to to their det,

    Honestly it is their choice and their decision, but from my perspective, I see the angst.

    ~ Academically not high enough to get a direct admit, but too high to get prep or falcon. Many will get an AFROTC scholarship. Yet the falcon or prep will have a better shot for the following yr.
    ~~~ What is their bragging point...95%+

    If I am correct you can't apply for falcon scholarship.It is awarded via the AFA.

    So again, I ask even if HQ ADAF does not pay for it, why they decide which candidate gets a falcon scholarship.

    Trust me, this is not sour grapes, DS was AFROTC scholarship with college merit. He is at UPT currently as an O1. I am just looking from an outside in perspective.

    ~~ Teach me and every other poster/lurker.

    I also ask because of sequestration, which currently can be until FY 2024.
    ~The DoD budget must be reduced 10% per yr for the next 10 yrs.

    Teach me from the KISS method. Don't ask me to read links, blogs, etc as a defense and interpret your POV.

    Explain to me current budget restraints.
    ~~~ I.E said, like it or not but the fact is red shirting offsets the cost for prep because of NCAA televised events.

    It is my opinion, falcon scholarships should be offered from the school, not the AFA. Just like colleges offer merit scholarships without talking to A/AF/NROTC regarding their scholarships.

    Teach me.
     
  19. aseanag

    aseanag Eagle2013

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    Pima I happen to agree with alot of what you have said lately but I am proud of the young folks that attend AF prep programs and are successful. I feel this forum sometimes treats them like second class cadets. Very sad. I have said in the pass that all education assisted programs should be cut equally. That is the only way to be fair. JMHO.
     
  20. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna Member

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    ...I haven't seen any flaming on this thread, unless emoticons upset you strongly...

    Um, that's great that you think alumni should donate students going to their alma mater. That's pretty much what the FF is.

    I really don't see what your objection is with private citizens donating money to invest in the top non-selected candidates for a year. It's not like I sat around for a year waiting for my appointment. I brought my test scores up to a 2200/33 composite, improved my CFA scores, picked up some college credits, and I'm nowhere near some of the high achieving Falcons I know.

    Best part? You didn't have to pay a dime!
     

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