is it possible for me to join the usafa?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by manu4g, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    hi everyone!
    i´m new in this forum and i have a big question.

    first something to me:
    - i am from germany and because of that a non citizen.
    - in 2012 i will hopefully pass my gymnasium graduation - that´s compareable to the us college graduation, i think. (13 years of school)
    - now i´m 18 years old and i so much want to join the usaf academy!!
    - i don´t know what skills i need to join the usafa... but in the german military i would easily become allowed to join the air force becuase of my qualifications
    - after i finished school, i would like to join the german "grundwehrdienst" -> compareable to basic training (6 months you have to pledge by joining it and you can almost go to 2 years voluntarily), with that i want to finance my flight to the usa and the whole other stuff.

    why i want to join the usafa??
    - because i so much want to go and maybe live in the usa
    - because i´d like to study there and to form me
    - and of course because of the dream of flying and becuase i like the us military.

    questions:
    - is it possible at all to join as a german the usafa? if not so, how can i as quickly as possible get the us citizenship?
    -> i read that if you join the military and do the basic traning you can get your us citizenship in a few months, and if you join the academy you have to do basic training so this problem would be checked, wouldn´t it?
    - what is the age limit for joining the academy?
    - what other costs do i have to consider beside the flight cost?
    - are there any other things that i have to consider or i do have to know?

    thanks for answeres. :smile:
     
  2. McCoy

    McCoy Member

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    You need to become a US citizen
     
  3. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    As said, you have to be a U.S. citizen to attend the air force academy. HOWEVER: Our Air Force Academy does provide a U.S. Air Force academy education for military members of foreign countries. I know cadets currently at the academy from 4 different countries. Now, whether or not Germany has the capability or not; I don't know. You'd have to check with your military. Normally, it's for allied nations that don't have a similar military academy for their own military members. Anything on this forum would be just speculation. You need to contact your military and ask if it's possible.

    Other than that, as mentioned, the only way to attend the UNITED STATES air force academy, or other academy, is if you are a citizen of the UNITED STATES.
     
  4. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    I know the German equivalent (don't remember the exact name, Offiziersdienst perhaps?) has an exchange program. The ones I've seen were semester exchanges, but it may be possible to work a 4 year program. I am almost positive you would have to arrange that through the Luftwaffe.
     
  5. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    I am not sure but I seem to remember a way to become a US citizen by serving as an enlisted member of the US service. You would have to check on that though since I am really foggy on this whole notion.

    I wouldn't wait too long to look into it though. Even though you are young at 18, I am sure there are YEARS of paper work ahead of you to get everything squared away.

    You know, you can probably go to many of our civilian colleges as a non-citizen (especially if you are a full-payer), if your true goal is just to live in the US for a while as you continue your education.
     
  6. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    @raimius
    yes i know there is an exchange program within the german luftwaffe if you are going to become an officer, if you do so, you will be 2 years in the usa.
    but that´s not what i want, because i will not work for the us military. (not that german´s military is bad:wink:) i can´t really explain why i want to go to the us military so much, one reason is that i will be in the usa an other reason is that there is something in me that want´s to go there... can´t explain it.

    @fencersmother
    yes i also know that i could study at a civillian college, but i´d never study anything if it wasn´t connected with becoming an officer or connected with the military, like it is in the usaf academy.

    @Christcorp
    as i told raimius, i know it would be possible to go to the us airforce by joining the german luftwaffe, but it wouldn´t be the same for me like really being in the usaf.
    i think you are right, best think would be to contact my military and ask for my questions.

    - is there an age limit for joining the usafa? because my school will last until 2012 and my "grundwehrdienst" until 2014, by then i´ll be almost 23. and if i first have to become a us citizen to join the usafa it will last a few months, doesn´t it?
    i contacted the us military for this and they told me following:

    "Once you have enlisted in the US Army and become a Future Soldier your recruiter will help you fill out your paperwork that you will take with you to basic training. This process is for Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) or a Conditional Lawful Permanent Resident (CPR). An INS representative will conduct your initial citizenship interview while you are in reception. There will then be a follow-up interview by USCIS and if approved, Naturalization could occur at the completion of Basic training. Certain cases could take longer depending on the individual Soldiers background."

    what does it actually mean? sorry if my english is too bad, but i just do not exactly understand if it is possible to have the us citizen ship in half a year by joining the basic training, or not.

    last question:
    can anyone suggest me a good page where i can get informations about the usafa?

    thank you!:smile:
     
  7. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You obviously have another problem. At the academy, you have to GRADUATE no later than 27 years old. That means, the oldest you can be when you START the academy is 23 years old. (It is a 4 year school). Citizenship takes time. If you don't start that process until you're 23, there is no way you're going to get that done, apply for the academy, HOPE to get accepted, and start the academy before you are 24 years old. If you are already going to finish a college degree, it seems silly to go back to the air force academy and start school all over. Plus, joining the german military for 2 years will also make it difficult. There's no way I can see you doing all that, when you're 23 years old, and then get citizenship and apply and be accepted to the air force academy in less than 1 year.

    Approximately 10,000 people apply to the air force academy each year. In the end, only 1300-1400 are accepted. So even if you could do everything you want to go, and do it by the time you are 23 years old, getting accepted is going to be very difficult. You can definitely join the United States air force. But I think with your plans, it will be almost impossible to go to the air force academy. You're going to be too old by the time you're done with your plans and get citizenship.
     
  9. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    that´s what i was afraid of...

    i checked the 2 pages out about beoming a us citizen Luigi59 posted.
    if i did unterstand correctly only one following possibility comes into consideration:
    - becoming a us citizen by joining the armed forces. you need a greencard, which allows you to join the armed-forces as a non-citizen and in one year you can apply for naturiliziation. is this right or did i understand this wrong or is there an other better way to get the us citizen-ship (MAVNI Program is not in consideration because for this i need to live in usa for 2 years)?

    if i need one year to get the citizenship, and i have to be under 23 of age to join the academy, the only way would be stopping "gymnasium", and go to the "grundwehrdienst" so i can fund all stuff i need there. that would be 2013 and i´ll be 21.
    one year later i´d have the us citizenship and i´d be 22, enough time to apply for the academy^^.

    ok all joking aside. i won´t give up that fast! i want to go to the air force academy. even if it sounds stupid i would do everything to get there, i also would stop going to school, or just take half a year of "grundwehrdienst" to fund my habitation in the usa.
    (btw. are there any costs that you have consider by joining the air force academy? you will get paid after joining the academy won´t you? )
    so you see i do not accept a NO!
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Don't worry about expense. Technically, you could walk into the air force academy with about $100 to your name. (To take care of some initial expenses like shampoo, razors, underwear, etc... until they start paying you.) I know individuals who had no support from their family and literally came to the academy with only a few dollars. So no, money doesn't have to be an issue.

    Assuming you stopped your additional schooling so you could be under the age requirement, you have to remember a couple things about getting an appointment.
    1. Basically, you have to be UNDER 28 years old when you graduate the academy. That means that MAY of the year you begin at the academy, you have to be UNDER 24 years old.
    2. Applications to the air force academy starts in June/July of the previous year that you will actually attend. It's a 9 month process approximately.
    3. Assuming you are the proper age, you have to be in the top 10-14% of all applicants. That's academically, physically, and medically. As well as extra curricular activities, volunteering, etc... The air force academy looks at the "Whole Person", not just grades in school.
    4. You HAVE TO BE NOMINATED. At the bottom of my post, in my signature block, you will see a link for an applicants brochure. It will tell you about the nominations. For most applicants, the nomination comes from their state senator or state representative. You currently don't have one of those, because you are a citizen and aren't a resident of any of our 50 states or territories.
    5. Assuming you get citizenship and residency in a state, you will be competing with quite a few others from that state wanting a nomination. There is a set number of nominations allowed to be given out. You might not be the fortunate one to get a nomination.
    6. Even if you are the fortunate one to receive a nomination, there are approximately 6,000 nominations given out each year from the various sources. Of those, ONLY 1300-1400 will actually receive an appointment to the academy.
    7. Many applicants who don't receive an appointment, will reapply for the next year. Again, it starts in the June/July time frame. Take this into consideration when looking at your age. You could go through all this and apply, and not get accepted, and then be too old to try it the next year.
    8. The vast majority of applicants, who are citizens, apply at 18 years old. They have the ability to try again next year if they don't get accepted this year. Plus, they will apply for ROTC or attend regular college. This keeps up their grades and prepares them for a better application the next year.

    I am not telling you any of this to discourage you. I am simply pointing out that you can't say "I want to attend the air force academy" and it's going to happen. We have 10,000 people every year say that. And only 1300-1400 actually get an appointment to attend. Unless you have some special quality that the air force can use, like being a star athlete, it's very difficult to get around the normal process. good luck to you. Mike....
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    I don't think that's correct.

    Here's what the USAFA Admissions web site says:
    At least 17, but less than 23 years of age by July 1 of the year you would enter. ​

    (The month of MAY has nothing to do with it.)

    https://admissions.usafa.edu/secure/online/Eligibility.htm

    Here's what US Code says:

    (a) To be eligible for admission to the Academy a candidate must be at least 17 years of age and must not have passed his twenty-third birthday on July 1 of the year in which he enters the Academy.​

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sec_10_00009346----000-.html
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You are correct. I was thinking of "Graduation" in May. It is July 1st.
     
  13. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    "3. Assuming you are the proper age, you have to be in the top 10-14% of all applicants. That's academically, physically, and medically. As well as extra curricular activities, volunteering, etc... The air force academy looks at the "Whole Person", not just grades in school."
    yes and i think that´s exactly the right thing what the academy does, they not just looking to the papers, they are also looking to you. i think this is good.

    i hate this... dream is going to break just because im not born in the usa??... that´s so unfair. it´s so depressive... you can´t immagine how much i want to go to this academy...

    well... anyway, thank you for the answeres...

    why isn´t there an other way??
    in what way exactly is the usaf academy different from the normal air force officer schools?
    the academy is about study and become an officer and they are younger. in the air force officer school you already had to study.
    so are there any more differences? both ways will lead to the same qualification you will get after the school, won´t they?

    hope i can get some sleep...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  14. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    There are three basic ways to become an active duty officer in the US Air Force.

    1. The academy. As we've been discussing, you would have a hard time meeting the requirements before the age limit.

    2. Air Force ROTC. This is an Air Force program done at a civilian university. ROTC cadets meet several times each week to take Air Force classes, do physical exercises, and other things, like drill and ceremonies.

    3. Air Force OTS (officer training school). OTS is an approximately 13 week program for university graduates. It is basic training and generalized officer training.

    The age limits and selection process is different for each program, but the results are the same -- a commission as an Air Force officer.

    At this point, I would recommend researching each of these options.
     
  15. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    manu4g,
    Just to clarify, the links provided above listing procedures for foreign nationals to join the military and become citizens, except for a few officer specialties in high demand, applies only to enlisted. The citizenship requirement prior to enrolling in a SA superceeds this enlisted opportunity. Additionally, most nomination sources will require citizenship prior to granting a nomination. These issues, combined with your stated timeline, make your plan almost totally unachievable.
     
  16. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    1. i can´t go to the academy because im too old.i can´t do ots because:
    3. "To apply for OTS, you are required to be either a graduate of a regionally or nationally accredited college or university or a college senior who is available to depart for training within 365 days." = my abitur would not be accapted...

    so the only possiblity that would work would be point 2.
    i informed me about joining the afrotc but i still don´t know exactly what it is. all i understood was that you are going to study but at a civilian university. at the same time you will get trainied to become an officer. is this right?
    if so, you always have to travel a lot from the university to the camp where you will get trained to become an officer don´t you?
    any idea how much it´ll cost? or what do you even have to pay for?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You actually take the military classes at the university that you are studying your major academics. Any additional military education, that isn't performed at the university, is usually paid for you by the air force. Expense is not generally an issue. ROTC has 2 options. 1) You can attend a university, that you are paying for or receiving scholarships, but you also are enrolled in ROTC. Upon graduation, you MAY be given a slot in the air force as a commissioned officer. 2) You apply for and receive an ROTC Scholarship. That pays for your college education, and upon graduating, you can be commissioned as an Air Force officer.
     
  18. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    and what way, to come to this result of joining the rotc, would be best for me to manage getting the us citizenship?
    do i even need it? i figured out this:
    everyone who wants to join the rotc first has to go through the General Military Course.
    the requirements for this are:
    be a United States citizen (if on scholarship)
    so it menas i can join the rotc as a non us citizen if i´m not on scholarship??

    second: they have to go through the Professional Officer Course.
    and here the requirements among other things are following:
    Be a United States citizen

    so it actually means that i could use a greencard or a visa or something to get into the usa. while being in the General Military Course i could apply for the us citizenship.
    is this right?

    one more question:
    i just found this for applying to usaf academy:
    be a U.S. citizen (international students authorized admission are exempt from the U.S. citizenship requirement),
    so i could apply for af academy?? how can i find out if i am a authorized admission student?
    https://admissions.usafa.edu/RRS/Intl_Booklet_2015.doc
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  19. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Manu4g: I would recommend that you contact the Admissions dept of USAFA directly to get succinct answers to your questions. You have a complicated situation and I am concerned that all the info will just get jumbled up here.

    Personally, my main concern is two-fold: you seem to me to have a strong desire to be an Air Force officer (I presume to fly our fab fighter jets), but your desire to become a US citizen is not based on love of the US, but on your desire to attend the Academy and be in our Air Force. For me (again this is MY PERSONAL OPINION), this sort of rubs me the wrong way. You would be taking a spot from a US citizen, who also may have dreamed of this opportunity his/her whole life.

    Do you want to become a citizen of our great nation, or is your goal to fly the planes?

    I don't mean to offend you or anyone here, but I'm just not clear on your motivation.
     
  20. manu4g

    manu4g Member

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    well it´s true that i´d like to fly jet fighters or become an officer. but my desire to become a us citizen doesn´t base on the desire to become an officer or become a jet fighter.
    it´s not that i watched some movies or something like this where my desire comes from. (that would be really stupid)
    i have many friends which visited the usa or which are us citizens and live here in germany.
    i myself have never been to the usa, that´s why it´s so hard for me to explain my desire to become a us citizen. i often told my friends about my desire. at that time i also wanted to visit a high-school in usa to see the usa and see how people live there and get to know the country, so that the good things i feel about the usa would verify.
    they told me i should wait and do my gymnasium and then go there for studying. (becuase gymnasium is higher education than high-school)
    it was very difficult for them, to convince me becuase i had everything planed. the flight, the friends in usa i would live etc. everything was sure.
    those of my friends who also had the desire to visit the usa told me:"your desire to become a us citizen is exactly that feeling i had, before i became a us citizen."
    also this 2 people, which are my friends and who became us citizens, haven´t yet told me anything bad about the usa.

    the only one thing, they do not agree, is the military thing...
    but that´s just my character, i think.
    they told me to make my way. and that´s what i´m doing.
    so if anyone thinks i wouldn´t love the usa is very wrong. the desire also comes from the things they told me about usa, and for example l love the differences of law between germany and usa just as well i love the education possiblilties. (that´s just two things, there are many more, i just can´t really explain what i love so much about the usa but if you would talk to me you would know why.)

    the link i posted where you can download the doc-file says if you are a student, you have to contact your country. then, if you will be authorized, you can apply. it´s like an instruction for foreign people to get into the usafa. today i will ask my english teacher about some things, i want to know. then i will contact the usafa directly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010

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