LOA-JROTC Nomination

[Just_A_Mom]

Again, I plead mea culpa if I am wrong, but appointing a candidate and charging a nom source do not go hand in hand.

They most certainly do go hand in hand. MOC nominees who do not 'win' the MOC slot are alternates. Alternates compete for appointments as laid out in the US Code.
IF you ONLY have an ROTC appointment, or other service connected appointment (such as Presidential) you are ineligible to be appointed as an alternate.

Apply for the VP because you will get it, and there you go, you now have a VP nom

I honestly have no idea where you hears this but this is just wrong. incorrect. Please read the US Code prior to spreading wrong information to a candidate.
As quoted below from the US Code; each Academy is only allowed to have FIVE VP apppointees at any given time. This is approx ONE per year. If you think you won a nomination from the VP because you got a letter, you are incorrect. VP Nominees cannot compete as an alternate. The VP "nomination" = an Appointment. A VP "nomination" without an appointment is worthless.

The authorized strength of the Corps of Cadets of the Academy (determined for any year as of the day before the last day of the academic year) is 4,400 or such lower number as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Army under subsection (j). Subject to that limitation, cadets are selected as follows:

....Five cadets nominated at large by the Vice President or, if there is no Vice President, by the President pro tempore of the Senate.

If you won an LOA.....
Apply to ALL nomination sources for which you are eligible. This is per the instructions from the Academy. Follow the instructions.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

It seems like there is a little debate going on here. Just to let everyone know, I'm applying to all 5 of my nominating sources:

• 1 Congressman
• 2 Senators
• 1 VP
• 1 JROTC

I was just asking for assurance. I do believe that what Pima has been saying is correct. If an LOA recipient is an alternate for an MOC slot or qualifies and applies for a service-related nomination, the LOA recipient will be offered an appointment(whether or not they are charged for that specific slot). I've read that on a couple of web sites, but this thread was just for assurance. I e-mailed my Blue and Gold officer, so I'll post what he says.

Excellent. Normally, an LOA winner just needs "a" nomination. However, it does get tricky with service connected ones. It's a mistake to ever assume that since you have 'one' you need not apply to any other sources.
No offense to Blue and Gold officers out there but..... I have seen some incorrect information offered by them in the past. (that goes for MALO's as well).
If you read the LAW you will see that LOA's are not addressed at all. Academies are counting on candidates to apply to all sources so the pegs will fit nicely into the holes as the appointment process moves along.

 

[Mongo]

the LOA recipient will be offered an appointment(whether or not they are charged for that specific slot). I've read that on a couple of web sites, but this thread was just for assurance. I e-mailed my Blue and Gold officer, so I'll post what he says.

Call your Regional Director.

One of the biggest misnomers in the entire admissions cycle is that LOAs are not charged to specific slots. AS JAM pointed out, there is no provisions in the Code for LOAs. They are an invention of the Admissions people and must fall entirely within the scope of the law. No different than any other nomination. If 21 of you with LOAs read the "web sites" and independently decide you only need a ROTC nomination, at least one of you, probably more, will not get an appointment. A nomination that can be married to a viable appointment is required. Again, as JAM has stated, this can be a problem with the service connected ones since they don't carry the 'alternate' caveat.

 

[MorganC]

I apologize but after reading through this site I guess I still don't get it. The way that it is explained is LOA + Nom + 3Q = Appointment. It is obviously in one's best interest to apply to all sources but if he has an LOA and the JROTC nom then I don't understand how he wouldn't be offered an appointment. It's kind of like if you're one of the alternates on your MOC's slate and you have an LOA then you still get an appointment even though you aren't the principal nom. It's all very confusing.

 

[karenk213]

honor unit

My daughter is in JAFROTC and is applying to the USNA. How can she find out if her JROTC is an honor unit?

 

[Christcorp]

WARNING: This is going to be a little lengthy. But it will be easy reading. Skip to the last paragraph if you want the MEAT of the post. But please read it all to eliminate questions.

The nomination process can be quite confusing at times. How many can be nominated? Which slot is an appointment take from? The list is endless. And the problem with the questions related to this thread, is that more than one person is correct; in different facets. Also, my comments assume an individual is 100% qualified, so lets not add that variable to the equation. Lets assume all interested parties are totally qualified.

First, the easy question/answer. Karen; just have you or your daughter ask your JrROTC director or commander at the school if that school's program is an honor's program. If they've been allowed to nominate in the past, then it is an honors unit.

As for nominations, and the bigger question of whether a properly submitted JrROTC nomination to a particular academy, is enough to receive an appointment, IF you already have an LOA, here's the SHORT and LONG of it. YES, the JrROTC nomination is all that you need to receive an appointment, if you have received an LOA from the academy. "Assuming the nomination is to the appropriate academy in which the LOA was offered". And if you were applying to the Air Force Academy, and had an LOA, and a JrROTC nomination, I would pretty much say you are totally good to go. But I did say "Short and Long", so you know there is more coming here.

The reason I said I'd be confident with an Air Force Academy LOA, is because they only offer approximately 150 LOA's. (And that can be pushing it at times). They also only offer LOA's to individuals whose application is 100% complete. Matter of fact, if you had an JrROTC Nomination today, I can guarantee you 99.9% that you would NEVER receive an LOA. WHY? Because you would instead receive an IMMEDIATE Appointment in Oct-Nov when they come out. Being LOA/Appointments don't come out in the air force until Oct/Nov, if you have a legitimate nomination PRIOR to then, and your application is 100% and all the other stuff; and the academy really wants you; you will not get an LOA. You'll get the appointment. The LOA are for individuals who normally can only go after the MOC type nominations. And for those who completed the application but didn't know about applying for the nominations. The .1% I don't guarantee, is in case 21+ people with an ROTC/JrROTC nomination had their application 100% complete and was in the same exact boat. OR, that October came, you got an LOA, but you never applied yet for any Non-MOC related nominations. They could have filled those up before you got around to applying. The odds of more than 20 of those 150 slots being individuals with ROTC/JrROTC nominations is mathematically really difficult. And most individuals authorized Non-MOC related nominations, usually apply for those early in the application process. So by the time LOA's come out for the air force, you'd go straight to an appointment if you were that good.

However, the army, and navy, tend to give out earlier and more LOA's than the air force. So, the odds go up that more individuals getting an LOA, could also have an ROTC/JrROTC nomination. Also, these individuals with LOA's most times haven't completed their applications. Sometimes they won't until January. That nomination can't be used for them and that slot, until their application is 100% complete and they are 100% qualified. A lot of those slots could get filled while you're waiting on completing your application. So, if 21 individuals with LOA only had a JrROTC/ROTC nomination, then 1 individual would in fact be in a predicament. Which is WHY you should apply for more than one nomination.

There are different types of nominations from different people/organizations. The most common is the MOC. Your representative and senators. I won't go into the details, unless a person has a specific question, because it can get very detailed. What we are concerned with here are LOA's. All of the nominations, no matter what they are, do in fact have a maximum number that can be used. So, a maximum of 100 Presidentials can get an appointment using that nomination in a year. Same for only 20 ROTC/JrROTC. Same for the 85 from the active duty enlisted. And the list goes on. There is a maximum.

But I need to qualify something here. Presidentials, for example, give out approximately 500 presidential nominations per year, for the air force academy. That's because that many individuals are AUTHORIZED that nomination. But only 100 of them can use than nomination towards an appointment. So even with an LOA, if by chance, you waited until January to apply for your Presidential Nomination, or you took that long to complete your application, the academy could have already given out 100 appointments using the Presidential nomination. You could be up a creek. So the academy would then look at one of those with an appointment and presidential, and see if they also had a MOC or something else. If they did, they'd use the other nomination for them, take the presidential slot back, and give that to you. Or the other way around, if you happen to have more than one nomination. That's why having more than 1 nomination is important.

Now, the largest number of nominations are from the MOC. On average, there will be approximately 5500 nominations by MOC. (453 reps and 100 senators, each submitting 10 names each). However, we know that A) The academy is only taking around 1300 total, and B) A MOC can only have 5 cadets at the academy at any one time. So, it won't quite be the 5500 every year.

Now the final equation to all this is: "Qualified Alternates". They MUST have a nomination, but they can come from any eligible source whatsoever, and the academy is allowed to use them to get up to the 1300-1400 appointments to fill the class. But usually, the MOC slots are the only ones that still have openings. Remember, even if there were 10 Presidentials left, you can't let a non-authorized person use that slot. But if you have a presidential, ROTC, etc... as well as a MOC nomination, you have basically trading material to work with if needed. Remember; 5500 nominations doesn't mean 5500 qualified or desirable candidates.

So, if you had/have an LOA, here's the deal. NO Representative or Senator appoints nominees, or even has interviews, until at least November-December. Fill out their paperwork; usually online; and proceed with a November-December scheduled interview with your MOC. HOWEVER; if you already have a presidential, ROTC/JrROTC, or other Nomination; then your LOA will most likely turn into an APPOINTMENT. IF YOU COMPLETE YOUR application 100% PRIOR to the MOC interviews. If the interview time comes up, and you haven't heard you received an appointment, (Again, ONLY if your application is 100% complete), then you might have been #21+ on the JrROTC nominee list and didn't finish your application before the other 20. Now, SHOULD you still do the MOC nomination interview if you have the appointment? That's a different ball game all together. The academy wants you to. (They want to use that ROTC, Presidential, etc... for another person who couldn't get another nomination). Your MOC DOESN'T want you to, because that leaves another person from his/her district/state that gets an appointment. But in the rare likelihood that there are MORE than 21 LOA's with ROTC/JrROTC nominations or more than 100 LOA with Presidential nominations; you'll know prior to your MOC's interview, assuming your application is 100% complete. By then, the choice is easy. You have an appointment or you don't. This is why the AIR FORCE LOA system is better than the others. SORRY, it IS. They WILL NOT give out an LOA to ANYONE, unless your application is 100% complete, with the exception of the nomination and DODMRB. (Not including athletes, but that is even rarer, and handled separate. They need nomination also). Which means, most individuals who put in a Presidential or other Non-MOC nomination, won't get an LOA if applying to air force. They'll either go straight to an APPOINTMENT, or they'll be waiting in the alternate's pool where the additional nominations will be needed in case the air force academy used up all 100 presidentials by then or all 20 of the ROTC by then. Etc... But with the army for instance, they give out LOA's prior to even beginning the serious part of the application. A person with an LOA could wait until January to finish the application; looking forward to an appointment; and find out that their Nomination category slates got filled. This can't happen in the air force, but it can in the others. So yes, get as many nominations as possible. You air force folks, you don't have LOA's yet, so disregard 95% of what I wrote. "Until the end of October; IF your application is 100% complete". Best of luck, and sorry for the novel. Mike.....

 

[AKH]

Reading this novel is worth it! Thanks so much Christcorp!

 

[Mongo]

Since Christcorp's 'novel' was in response to a USNA question, there are many misconceptions and downright errors. SInce both the AFA and USNA comply with the same basic law, I must assume that they pretty much the same.

The reason I said I'd be confident with an Air Force Academy LOA, is because they only offer approximately 150 LOA's. (And that can be pushing it at times). They also only offer LOA's to individuals whose application is 100% complete. Matter of fact, if you had an JrROTC Nomination today, I can guarantee you 99.9% that you would NEVER receive an LOA. WHY? Because you would instead receive an IMMEDIATE Appointment in Oct-Nov when they come out. Being LOA/Appointments don't come out in the air force until Oct/Nov, if you have a legitimate nomination PRIOR to then, and your application is 100% and all the other stuff; and the academy really wants you; you will not get an LOA. You'll get the appointment. The LOA are for individuals who normally can only go after the MOC type nominations. And for those who completed the application but didn't know about applying for the nominations. The .1% I don't guarantee, is in case 21+ people with an ROTC/JrROTC nomination had their application 100% complete and was in the same exact boat. OR, that October came, you got an LOA, but you never applied yet for any Non-MOC related nominations. They could have filled those up before you got around to applying. The odds of more than 20 of those 150 slots being individuals with ROTC/JrROTC nominations is mathematically really difficult. And most individuals authorized Non-MOC related nominations, usually apply for those early in the application process. So by the time LOA's come out for the air force, you'd go straight to an appointment if you were that good.

The 20 ROTC will not go to the 20 top LOAs without another nomination elsewhere but to the 20 TOP MOST QUALIFIED not slotted to a nomination elsewhere. Admissions will comply lists by order of merit for every individual from every nomination source. As candidates are offered appointments, determined by the best class mix possible, their names are deleted from other lists. The issue with LOAs and ROTC nominations is that the 20 appointments include both junior and senior ROTC. You are competing with college ROTC applicants who were 3Qed the previous year and have done nothing but work to enhance their eligibility. Through a variety of reasons such as lack of success the previous year and being away at college, etc., they may not receive a MOC nomination. They are the real competition.

Matter of fact, if you had an JrROTC Nomination today, I can guarantee you 99.9% that you would NEVER receive an LOA. WHY? Because you would instead receive an IMMEDIATE Appointment in Oct-Nov when they come out. Being LOA/Appointments don't come out in the air force until Oct/Nov, if you have a legitimate nomination PRIOR to then, and your application is 100% and all the other stuff; and the academy really wants you; you will not get an LOA. You'll get the appointment.

Never happen. It could be a possible violation of federal law. Remember, the 20 appointments go to the 20 most qualified. Qualified at the cutoff date, not today. Should this individual not receive another valid nomination and then more than 20 individuals become more qualified than he, his appointment would be illegial. Therefore, USNA would never do it.

On average, there will be approximately 5500 nominations by MOC.

USNA news release just stated that there were 6600 last year. Considering present focuses, plan on it remaining there.

Bottom line. I would like to be a fly on the wall when a LOA candidate was attempting to explain why he did not bother applying for his MOC nomination since he already had a ROTC nomination when the catalog specifically states to apply to all nominations eligible.

Also, keep in mind that unsuccessful ROTC applicants are ineligible for the national pool.

 

[Christcorp]

Your MOST QUALIFIED statement would be correct IF they didn't hand out appointments until after February. However, there are plenty of appointments given out in October, immediately after the review board starts meeting. And there are plenty of people who have put in for various non-MOC related nominations who won't/don't finish up their applications until much later on. These individuals could very well the "Most Qualified", but that is not going to take away an appointment from an individual who received it in October/November.

You assume that all appointments are decided AFTER the January deadline for applications. This simply is not true. And my opinion of Air Force is correct. Because they don't start giving out LOA's until after their application is completed 100%. And just about every one of these LOA's are individuals who have no nominations yet. However, there are plenty of "Appointments" handed out in the first week of november, prior to MOC nominations. And these aren't all presidentials. But I'd have to assume that based on your understanding, that a presidential nomination is the same as the other non-moc nominations. That it goes to the TOP-100 candidates. Well, I know too many individuals personally who have received appointments in the October-November time frame. Without any other nomination other than their Presidential. (Actually, it's not that they didn't have any other nomination, just that they contacted their MOC and said they didn't need to interview for the MOC nomination, because they already received an appointment).

Now if you believe that the non-MOC nominations are given to the most qualified, which means they'd have to wait until after January until ALL applications are in, then I'd like to know how appointments are given out in October/November, when there possibly could be a MORE QUALIFIED individual in January. Unless you're saying that this rule only applies to JrROTC/ROTC nominations. If this is true, and you're saying that they won't give an appointment until all individuals nominated for a JrROTC/ROTC nomination has been given out, and then the best 20 are chosen, then I'd like to not only see this in writing, but also why that doesn't apply to all the nomination categories. In other words, how are they able to give appointments (Which meant they received a nomination) in Oct-Nov, if there are people who haven't even finished applying for the academy or some of the nominations?

It is possible that the ruling you mention only applies to JrROTC/ROTC. I'll concede to that. But I know of presidential, active duty, and reserve who have received appointments in the Oct-Nov time frame. Which means there are potentially individuals who are MORE qualified, that haven't applied until after that time, who might not receive the appointment. A MOC is different because they Rank their slates. (Or, they delegate the authority to choose back to the academy). But the non-moc related nominations would have to be finalized by the academy. Well, that still brings up the point that no appointments, using non-MOC nominations could be given out until every possible applicant has applied for their nomination and the academy. Because there will always be someone who potentially is "More Qualified".

 

[falconchic88]

Never happen. It could be a possible violation of federal law. Remember, the 20 appointments go to the 20 most qualified. Qualified at the cutoff date, not today. Should this individual not receive another valid nomination and then more than 20 individuals become more qualified than he, his appointment would be illegial. Therefore, USNA would never do it.

Totally disagree with this statement, my son, now a plebe had a presidential nomination, never rcvd an LOA, but recvd his APPOINTMENT to USNA in mid October, well before any cut off date or MOC nom boards/interviews. Which is in line completely with what CC indicated would happen. Also, who is to say others later are more qualified? Its up to the board to determine the most qualified, and if they have already issued an appointment to someone, they must be pretty confident that they are extremely highly qualified, and the legallity couldn't be challenged.
ETA: now ROTC noms may be a different bird, but previously they were being lumped with all other service connected noms

 

[falconchic88]

But it all seems kind of a mute point, since OP is heeding advice and applying for all nom sources anyway.
(BTW OP, you can apply to more than one service academy with each moc, most just have you rank order them)

 

[Christcorp]

Falconchic: It is possible that the JrROTC/ROTC Nominations have a cutoff date, and that they won't select appointees using this nomination until the cutoff date has come. Similar to a MOC that makes you submit your request prior to "X" date; interviews of "Y" date; and selects their nominees on "Z" date. Sort of a combination of a presidential (Hundreds of nominations are given, but only 100 can be used for an appointment); and a MOC (Where there are given out MORE nomination than actual appointments, and is done by date). I personally don't know this to be factual. I would have to see something in writing to verify. I have a hard time imagining that the academy would have the latitude to offer some nominations that they control, and thus an appointment in October-November; (Like the presidential); yet not be allowed to do the exact same thing for say a JrROTC/ROTC, Reserve, Prior Enlisted, etc... But I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt if someone can provide something in writing that states such a thing. Mike....

 

[falconchic88]

Agreed!

 

[Christcorp]

Yo falconchic; you bring up a very good point in you edit post. About the academy having a pretty good idea about the individuals they gave an appointment or LOA to. The military services have been appointing individuals to the various academies for a very long time. Even the air force, has been doing it for more than 50 years. They KNOW the average applicant's scores. The know what the average score will be for someone they give an appointment to. They've been doing this for a very long time. These applicants who receive LOA's and Early Appointments; at least in the air force; are part of the "No Brainers" club. The academy has seen more than enough applications come through to know that no matter what category a particular individual is put into, they WILL receive an appointment. That's because they aren't IN the "Top X%"; they ARE the "Top X%". They can be quite confident that the individual they offered early admissions to is definitely the best of the best.

Now granted, the army and navy is more difficult to say that a person is in the "No Brainers" club. They offer many LOA's prior to the individual completing their application. However, I have to believe that the army and navy do enough historical research on an individual, prior to offering them an LOA. E.g. gpa through their junior year, what classes they've taken, SAT/ACT, etc... In other words, the army/navy will most definitely have enough empirical data to make a confident choice in their LOA's.

Is it possible that a person in November of their Senior year decides that the military academies might be a good choice? Yup, happens every year. They apply to their MOC for a nomination on their November X cutoff date. They don't get their interviews, CFA, DODMRB, and application completed until January. The realize at the last minute that they're authorized to put in for various non-MOC related nominations. And they go through the selection process. This person could be a 4.0 gpa, 2400SAT, 36SAT, captain of the football and basketball team, in charge of their Meal-on-Wheels program, who tutors 3rd graders after school and teaches english as a 2nd language to new immigrants, and is the class president and Boy/girl's state representative. Well, chances are, that might not get one of those Non-MOC related nominations, because they were given out and selected PRIOR to him/her even finishing their application. On the other hand, it's possible that only a very small number of the non-moc nominations are used for the early admissions appointments/loa recipients, and that the vast majority will be used in the general pool, where this individual is able to use such a nomination.

Point is; we don't know. The application board does. But what we DO KNOW and can not be disputed, is that there are non-MOC nominees who used that nomination during the early appointment stage (October-November), and in fact received an appointment. And it's also a fact that there can be and likely may be a last minute applicant who may be more qualified in a non-MOC nominee category, and doesn't receive an appointment using that non-MOC nomination.

 

[Mongo]

CC, you did just answered your own question. Thanks for saving me the trouble. They gamble, play the odds with historical data. Since some Admissions administrations are more risk tolerant than others and results were inconsistent, LOAs were developed just to alleviate this policy. Seems as if AFA continues to utilize it slightly more than USNA.

falconchic88, I stand by my original statement. To give out a few appointmets to the upper half or so of an angticipated Presidential list is not the same as giving an appointment on a very diverse ROTC list.

 

[Christcorp]

I understand what you're saying mongo, but you are not totally correct as you stated earlier. It is quite possible, for the MOST QUALIFIED to not get an appointment using a specific non-MOC nomination. Risk tolerant or not, an applicant can receive an LOA and a presidential, JrROTC/ROTC, etc... nomination; and receive their appointment, without being the MOST QUALIFIED of the 100 or 20 presidentials/ROTC.

You said that the academies give the 20 ROTC to the MOST QUALIFIED 20 applicants. That is simply not true. The academy believes, based on their experience, that those they give an LOA to, will indeed be one of the top-20. Problem is; especially in the army, where they give out LOA much easier; that they don't know if the LOA went to an individual who qualifies for an JrROTC/ROTC/Presidential/etc... nomination. So there are definitely some who will receive an LOA AND an Appointment, who was not the MOST QUALIFIED. There is only 1 way for this not to happen, and that the MOST QUALIFIED indeed was given the appointment via that non-MOC nomination. The academy would have to wait until Jan-Feb becore offering appointments via non-MOC nominations. They don't, therefor they can't.

Now, we're just beating a dead horse. The truth is: Once you receive an appointment, there is no need to go after another nomination. I am speaking specifically of receiving an appointment in the October/November time frame. No matter what that nomination was, if you received an appointment, then they used that nomination. In which case, you're done. You can call and thank your MOC and let them know you received an appointment; and as such, don't need to use one of their slots, and that hopefully they'll be able to find another constituent to fill that slot. If you have an LOA, and assuming everything else is 100% complete, and you also have a non-MOC nomination, then there's a chance that you aren't going to be able to use that nomination. If you were able to, then you'd no longer HAVE an LOA.... It would change to an APPOINTMENT. Because an LOA is a "Letter of Assurance". The academy is ASSURING you that as long as you have a nomination that can be charged to, and you are 3Q, that you are GUARANTEED (Assured) an appointment. if you STILL have an LOA, and didn't get the call about receiving an appointment, and your application is 100% and you're 3Q; then the nomination you had was not able to be charged to you. So get out there working on your MOC nomination.

And you don't have to be the top 100 or 20 MOST QUALIFIED to receive and utilize (Be charged) for a presidential or JrROTC/ROTC nomination. You just have to be one that the academy believes is an excellent candidate and you qualify for that nomination. The academy will NEVER pull your appointment from you, because 3 months later, a last minute application was submitted who is authorized a presidential or was nominated via the JrROTC/ROTC nomination. Even if that person turns out to be the #1 MOST QUALIFIED of all non-MOC nominations; if the academy already used up all 100 or 20, or whatever, then they are gone. This #1 MOST QUALIFIED, better be going after their MOC for a nomination. Or, they better hope that one of the non-MOC nominees/appointees, has a 2nd (MOC) nomination so the academy can SHIFT his/hers to the MOC and free up the Non-MOC nomination that you are eligible for. (That's why the academy pushes for you to apply to all available nominations).

Like Falconchic's son, my son only had 1 nomination. It was a presidential. He had interviews "Scheduled" for the Rep and senators, but he never attended the interviews. End of October, he was given an appointment. And to help our state, he contacted the 2 senators and the rep, and told them he received an appointment. Therefor, they could use their authorized slot on someone else. Of course the academy doesn't like this. They would have wanted to take my son's rep or senator's slot, and swap it with my son's presidential. This way the academy would have an extra slot to give out, instead of the state of Wyoming having an extra slot to give out.

But if you're part of the "No Brainers" club, there's a reason they do this for you. They are competing for you, just like Cornel, USC, Texas, Harvard, etc... is competing for you. Every college offers "Early Admissions". This is a tool used to accept the most desirable applicants. They know you're going to be offered a lot of different schools. They want to accept you and get you excited, so you don't go to another school.

This is one of the reasons I emphasize individuals with above average (Doesn't have to be walk on water scores), to get your applications done immediately. Army recommends I believe Oct-31. Air Force says on the email to you, to try and complete the entire application within 45 days. (That gives the application enough time to be eligible to be looked at during the first review board). And for what it's worth, this is quite possible. Now that my son is an upper classman, I don't mind mentioning. He had his application 100% completed by July 19th of 2007. (42 days after the application process opened). He had his presidential, DODMRB, ALO interviews, CFA, etc... all 100% complete. Matter of fact, we found out from the academy / counselors, that his application was the very first application completed in the entire country. The counselors have a weekly meeting to discuss applicant concerns and progress. And they always ask if there's any completed apps so they can judge that year's pool. About 5 weeks after the session opened, my son's academy counselor said it was weird to stand up and be the only one to say that she had 1 completed application.

And the reason I bring this up, is because his application wasn't PERFECT. Because of weighting, some have higher than a 4.0gpa. His was a 4.0, non-weighted and not changed by the academy. He had a 30ACT. Not a perfect 36. Yes, he was in the IB program and all heavy classes and ranked #1 in his class. But was he the MOST qualified of the presidential nominations? That's hard to tell. He didn't become a recruited athlete until AFTER he received his appointment, so being a jock isn't what did it. Point is, while the academy tries to give the nominations to the MOST QUALIFIED, that isn't always going to happen. So don't worry about it. It's not in your control anyway. However, the scenario of an LOA PRIOR to November 1st, and a non-MOC nomination, is something that an army or navy applicant would have to be a little more concerned about than say an Air Force applicant. If an Air Force applicant had a presidential or JrROTC nomination, and they received an LOA in Oct/Nov, then they know for a fact that they didn't get to use their nomination and will have to go after the MOC nomination. That's because they completed their application. In the army or navy, you can get your LOA in July/August. You may believe that the LOA and the presidential or JrROTC nomination automatically gets you the appointment. You might wait until January to finish your application. You might have skipped applying for a MOC nomination. You could be screwed. Anyway; best of luck to you. mike.....

 

[Mongo]

Maybe we should have separate Nomination forums, one for each Academy. While, what you say may be true for AFA, I stand by my statements in re USNA.

Additionally, to prevent applicants with appointments from not pursuing all available nominations is precisely why USNA is hesitant to award appointments prior to MOC nominations. Even when they do, their guidance to the appointee is to continue their MOC nomination. I know, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. However, in every single instance where an individual fails to pursue all nominations, he potentially lowers the standards for the entering class. Conversely, it can never raise the standard. This is why USNA is very slow to offer these type appointments.

To clear up another misconception, USNA, as a general rule, with very very few exceptions, requires a complete package prior to granting of an LOA.

 

[Christcorp]

I'm glad to hear that Navy doesn't really issue LOA's without a 100% complete application. That is inline with air force. I don't like that Army gives out LOA's in July/August. It does cause a lot of problems. However, each academy gets different types of applicants who are applying for many different reasons. Maybe it works for the army.

And you say that the navy rarely gives out appointments PRIOR to MOC nominations. While I don't have exact numbers, the Air Force tends to give out approximately 300-400+/- Appointments and/or LOA's between the end of October and when MOC nominations start coming out in December. That's about 20-25%. The overwhelming majority come out in the april time frame; with some trickling in from December-April. I'm sure Navy isn't too far off. If you say navy is hesitant, well, I can't argue that. I would have to talk to a Navy admissions counselor; which I don't ever have a need to do. I deal with helping those interested in the air force academy, ROTC, enlisting, and civilian colleges.

It makes perfect sense for the academy to encourage appointees to continue to apply for additional (MOC) nominations. The academy wants as many options as "THEY - The Academy" can have. If a person only has 1 nomination, that's the one they have to use. If they have more than one, the academy can juggle the nominations to get someone in that otherwise might not have been able to obtain a nomination.

In no way does not having more than one nomination lower the standard of the incoming class. This has been proven so many times. The academies on average, offer approximately 1700 APPOINTMENTS. Yes they do. They know for a fact that approximately 300-400 are going to turn it down. That will leave them with the 1300-1400 that they wanted. Most times, MORE than that turn it down, and the academy has to resort to the wait list. This is historical data. Happens every year. Has for a very long time. And the scoring between #1700 and #1300 is very slim. The GPA and SAT/ACT scores wouldn't probably change by 0.01 on GPA and .5 on ACT. But the OVERWHELMING majority of those who would/could be accepted into the military academies, are generally eligible and would be accepted to about 80% of all schools in the country. (Barring financial capabilities).

People who come to these forums are more "Military" motivated. That's also why we have such a large percentage of individuals who get accepted and receive an appointment here on the forums. The overwhelming majority of applicants however never visit a military or academy forum. And many of them, have the military academies as their BACKUP PLAN to college. They also applied to USC, Harvard, Tulane, Brown, MSU, etc... The military academies was their backup. They are part of the 400 who turn down the appointment because they got accepted to their primary university. I see that almost every year. 3 years ago, a young lady in our area turned down the academy and went to Yale. Then there's those who have the academy as their first choice. I know many who turned down FULL RIDE 100% scholarships and stipends to Tulane, MSU, USC, Cornell, and other schools, because they wanted and accepted the military academy.

I'm not sure exactly how many appointments the Navy gives out in October/November. But they are obviously non-MOC nominees. And if an appointee cares about their STATE and fellow citizens/applicants, they will let their Senator/Rep know they received an appointment and allow them to use their nomination on another applicant. If you don't care about your state, then apply for another nomination from your MOC, and if you receive it, then allow the academy to use your Non-MOC nomination for someone else. That is the only reason the academy wants you to get more nominations. It allows THEM more flexibility. It doesn't affect the level of standard of the appointees in that class.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

I don't like that Army gives out LOA's in July/August. It does cause a lot of problems. However, each academy gets different types of applicants who are applying for many different reasons. Maybe it works for the army.

It does work for Army and is not understood well by folks who are familiar with the AF, Navy process. The folks at West Point have been doing this a long time and they have a process that works well for them, even if it's a bit different.

Little known fact:
When an Army candidiate received an early LOA, and the application is not complete; the LOA will have a deadline (normally around 45 days) with with to complete the application or the LOA goes away. So, it's not like they send out 500 LOA's in July and wait until Jan for a complete application.
In the past, quite a lot of early LOA's are not responded to and hence become void. They are not hanging out their all season mucking up the process.

 

[usna candidate]

Thanks for all of the information. This really helped, and now I'm going to tell my Senior Army Instructor that sending in the ROTC nom app early is the best way to do it.