Mars Girl

Vullnoid, I hope that bag of popcorn is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BIG! (The road is very long...4 yrs just at the AFA:wink:)

If the AFA does not break her, UPT will make sure she is taken down!

Raimius, is correct it is the attitude.

Yes, walk in with pride, but her comments were past that point. The only woman in the AF that could have said I expect to be a Wing Queen, is Jeannie Flynn, since she was the first female to enter the fighter pilot community. Her career progression was deemed golden the minute she got fighters!

Fifi will also be a Wing Queen, since she was the 1st Female Thunderbird.

I know both of them and can say they earned it for their abilities regarding the stick, not their chromosomes, so don't jump on me!

"I consider myself to be the best there is. "
"I plan on being wing commander, which means I will be in charge."
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Both Jeannie and Fifi would never say these comments, they understand that there will always be someone better, and that the worse commanders are ones that act like HAMMERS! The I rule is considered a Hammer!

Are her comments youthful indiscretion? YES! The real question now is how deeply she believes in her statements. Some will get to the AFA, quickly surmise that everyone else there has the same stats, and they are not "special". Some will continue with an attitude believing that they are better!

There was one on this board that people were concerned because of their constant boasting while going through the process. They believed that they "were all that, and the AFA should take them". They saw that bravado hurt them, and got with the program. A yr ago I would have thought they would have been mince meat at BCT because of their attitude, now I believe they will be successful. Maybe she will be like them, and realize she is not all that, or maybe she won't bend and be like Mars Boy...only time will tell.

Only thing I can say as a wife who's DH flew fighters for 21 yrs... Old craniums, be it AFA cadets, UPT instructors, or Op squadrons drool and rub their hands while saying OH GOODY GOODY, when they know that someone like that is coming. The reason why? To show them that the AF is not a ME organization!
 
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LITS - this stuff has gone viral for the past 2-3 years. last year it was mars boy. a couple of years ago it was a west point appointee who wanted to be President of the US. There were a couple of other kids that year who were singled out - beginning over on CC and moving over here last year with "Mars boy".

West Point will not make a news release until the New Cadet has completed Beast. Sometimes the local paper will get wind of it from the MALO, the school or appointee.
The opportunity to be featured in an article in the local rag is just too good for some parents and their kids to turn down - they have no idea of the consquences.
 
JAM,

I think it speaks volumes of the appointee. To say I will be Wing Queen, and I rule, is frightening to say the least

The opportunity to be featured in an article in the local rag is just too good for some parents and their kids to turn down - they have no idea of the consquences.
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Again, they spoke from their heart, what they believe at that moment. Only time will tell if this is bravado or an adrenaline rush.

I believe she should be given the benefit of the doubt, that it was not meant anything more than a 17/18 yo dream. Her immaturity caused her to say the foolish things she did. However, if she gets to BCT and believes that she is "the chosen one" and does not get in line, than my support is gone for that defense.

Reality is there are those who believe they are better than their brethren when they aren't, and there are those who realize that they are no better than their brethren, It is up to her on which road she selects.

FWIW, I am not opposed to the puff pieces like this, but I think it is ego-centric. Yes, we were approached by our town paper, we declined.
 
I agree with just about everything that's been said on this thread, except for any bashing of current cadets, that kind of raises my hackles. :rolleyes:

(Sorry, Vullnnoid, just not feeling it today :wink:).
 
I don't think vullnoid was bashing on cadets, I think they were saying, pull up a chair, grab a bag of popcorn and watch the movie:rolleyes:
 
eagle36 said:
@vullnnoid:

Mars Boy, after all of his bragging and talk, got kickout out on academics. He then sent out a very rude picture of himself to his entire class, basically guaranteeing that he is not officer potential and most likely denying him any chance at ROTC.


@JAM, et al

As for this girl, yes we know her name. The issue isn't so much about having dreams to go to Mars. Almost everyone does. The mars idea ties her to Mars boy who got a rude awakening. The big issue are the following comments:

"I consider myself to be the best there is. "
"I plan on being wing commander, which means I will be in charge."

That's obviously not the attitude to come in with, and definetely not leave with. The cadre will make sure she learns this. If she does, great for her and hopefully she can reach her dreams. If not, well, then she can meet up with Mars Boy and they can dream together far away from the military
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Okay, I've been gritting my teeth on this, since the days of "Mars Boy" and such...but I'm just not going to sit here anymore and say nothing.

First, this is to the cadets on this forum/board that are commenting about this young lady and her statements:

GET A LIFE!

Second, chill out on this young lady's dreams, ideals, goals, etc. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with her thinking she's "all that and a bag of chips" and to have set such lofty goals for herself! The odds are against here achieving them, but WHY NOT GO FOR IT?!

It is not the role of the cadre to pre-determine a belief such as "...That's obviously not the attitude to come in with, and definetely not leave with. The cadre will make sure she learns this." The cadre is composed of "cadets" that are knowledgeable about the academy, from a cadet perspective, but are ignorant of the USAF, in truth.

What the heck is wrong with her attitude? Okay, perhaps she doesn't realize that you "aren't in charge" as much as you lead the cadet leadership of the wing with the advice, counsel, and direction of the senior USAF staff. SO WHAT? Essentially what she said is correct: the cadet wing commander IS IN CHARGE of the cadet wing, in so much as it goes. LIGHTEN UP ON THE SEMANTICS!

I like a positive, almost cocky attitude in a junior officer. That officer is the one that will bust their butt, get the mission done, and will MOST IMPORTANTLY make a decision. That decision may or may not be correct, but they will MAKE THE CALL. Being a junior officer means you don't really know anything (and coming from USAFA, ROTC, for the most part you really DON'T know much about the USAF) and that's okay; it's expected.

Senior officer like me are here to teach you; to pass on what we've learned, to help you develop into the leaders that we may be, but most likely into the leaders we wish we'd become! We've learned so much over the years, we are duty obligated to pass that on to YOU so that you do NOT make the mistakes we made years ago; that you move further and faster so that when we're sitting around, drinking beer, getting fat, and shooting down our watches at reunions, we are CONFIDANT that YOU are now "on guard" and that the USAF, OUR USAF, is in good hands!

You all are in for SUCH an education when you leave USAFA with your gold bars and "think" you know so much about the USAF. In reality, you don't know that much...you have so much more to learn; the benefit of USAFA is that you've been in a leadership laboratory for 4 years, you've hopefully had a plethora of great examples, both officer and enlisted, to help you shape your thought/decision process. DO NOT poison that well for this young lady simply because of her statements online.

Okay, she's set lofty goals; how do YOU as cadets now know that she is NOT that good, that she does NOT have the ability, desire, determination to excel to precisely that level?

The answer clearly is that you do not.

But to state: "...As for this girl, yes we know her name." and then from your following statements make it apparent to this officer that you, or your ilk, will seek her out for special attention, based solely upon an internet posting, speaks in my opinion, POORLY upon all of you.

She should be anonymous to ALL of you. Simply another basic, wad, smack: NOTHING more. If she performs at or above the level expected/required, then tell her so; likewise if she does not, then make it VERY CLEAR that she's not meeting the standards. I KNOW you know how to do that! :thumb:

I'll leave you with this thought...I have a classmate that during our doolie year said much the same: "I'm good, I'm excelling here and I want to be the cadet wing commander, so that's what I'm going after! Because I am that good and I believe in myself!"

And our firstie year he had the two stars on his shoulder boards...he WAS the cadet wing commander.

And NOW? He has those two stars upon his shoulders again, but they're not on any boards. And yes, he IS that good. Proved it as a cadet, proved it as an officer.

So do NOT trash, condemn, pick-on this young lady because you or your classmates, etc., don't like her comments. Forget the comments: focus on the entire incoming class. IF she is that good, she WILL stand out, as did my classmate. If she's not...she'll simply fade into the wing and most likely do a fine job, graduate, and become JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU: USAF officers.

End of rant.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
And there are certainly ways to say things that do "work out"...like..."I'm going to be the best I can be", "I'm going to work hard", or "I will look for leadership positions.

Hint: being a leader and being "in charge" are not always the same thing.

She approached it wrong. I think I was to nervous to assume I would be the best (and surprised, I WASN'T the best). I was also too busy explaining what the Coast Guard Academy was.
 
I'm thinking she's a typical kid in high school and probably doesn't really know how to approach it. She simply has a set of lofty goals and said it in a typically confident/arrogant manner.

The fact that anyone would make much about it without really knowing her is what "irks" me a bit.

Once she's there, if she doesn't learn how/why/where it's said/done, THEN it's time for an attitude adjustment, but as a new appointee?

She "most likely" doesn't know enough to know.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
flieger83 said:
I like a positive, almost cocky attitude in a junior officer. That officer is the one that will bust their butt, get the mission done, and will MOST IMPORTANTLY make a decision.
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They are also sometimes the ones willing to "outshine" their fellow JOs to get ahead.

Maybe it's a ship thing, good BSers in the wardroom, the ones who sell themselves to the command, confident, cocky. We had one or two like. Command loved them, fellow JOs didn't. Of course, we also could have just been terrible JOs and the command "saw the light" with the two cocky ones...I guess we can never know! :biggrin:
 
Ha, when I was at her stage in the game....I was explaining to my high school classmates that the Coast Guard was not Baywatch....

....sadly that is still needed at the Pentagon now and then (or as I found out recently with USSOCOM).
 
I'm not familiar with "Mars Boy" theme....is that something I should google or something that happened on these boards?
 
Right, Pima, I agree, no cadet bashing by Vullnnoid. I was just saying I'm really not feeling the urge to engage today... much.

But to inject a little humor into all this:

There was a thread somewhere on this forum where a propsective basic wanted to show up on the first day with these "running shoes."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/im...p_image?ie=UTF8&s=shoes&img=MAIN&color_name=4

I think they tried to talk him out of it, told him not good to stand out in the crowd, at least on the first day.
 
Flieger, you know I love you, but I want to pose this to you:

A. Let's acknowledge hazing (BCT) in your day and what occurs now...it is night and day.

B. If you had to re-live the memory of the AFA as a C2C, you would agree you probably had the same opinion. Age made you wiser, regarding how to address the issue. We are fortunate for the internet and that you can impart your wisdom. You did not have that in the 80s.

C. I agree, have the goal, but I differentiate from you on the cadets slamming her for the dream. I think they are concerned more about her "ME" attitude than her dream.

You and I both love the AF to the bottom of our hearts. If I didn't, do you think I would kiss our DS on his cheek and say "God Speed"? If I didn't do you think I would say to Bullet go and give the oath to an AFA cadet? We both have seen the AF changed in the past 20+ yrs, some good, some bad. If I was to be brutally honest I would say that the military has become to political and has lost sight of their true mission, I don't because I still believe.

I understand your point believing that they are hurting the AF with the following quote:
"...As for this girl, yes we know her name." and then from your following statements make it apparent to this officer that you, or your ilk, will seek her out for special attention, based solely upon an internet posting, speaks in my opinion, POORLY upon all of you.
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However, they need to bond, and I believe that 1980 BCT was a lot worse than 2010. There's our difference, I believe that the cadets don't want her to fail, I believe if they are hard on her, it is to her advantage to get rid of the "ME" attitude, and understand that it is "US".

Honestly, what kids state on internet postings is a true light into their mind.

I think it is great you gave the cadets something to think about regarding incoming cadets, but at the end of the day we must trust these cadets enough to pass the torch. They are our future leaders. Yes, they are young, but they aren't ignorant, arrogant or stupid. We mus cut our apron strings, and accept the fact that they are worthy.
 
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Pima said:
The only woman in the AF that could have said I expect to be a Wing Queen, is Jeannie Flynn, since she was the first female to enter the fighter pilot community. Her career progression was deemed golden the minute she got fighters!
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I believe the young appointee was addressing being a Cadet Wing Commander at USAFA; however, just to clarify, I had a female wing commander when I was on active duty. Thus, while I'm sure the accomplishments of Flynn are noteworthy, there has already been at least one woman in command of an Air Force combat wing (Minuteman III).
 
Flieger - thanks for your post #26. :thumb:

I feel vindicated. I am sure your remarks hold much more credibilty than mine since you are a grad and I am, well, "just" a mom. :wink:

vullnoid and pima - I'm still munching my popcorn :biggrin:
 
JAM,

You are not "just" a mom, you are also a military brat and you give incredible insight. I think what you are not understanding is that like me your position is based from an outside in view point. Bullet retired only 18 mos ago and he is already outdated to the current AF. We need to acknowledge and accept that it is their AF now. They are the ones that will live and die, if this is their opinion on how to bond, we need to trust them.

In other words, cut the apron strings...guide, help, YES, but it is their time to shine on their own. You can't believe that they are our future without letting them become leaders in this small way. SA's are proving grounds for our future, just trust them.

I am more upset at the fact that people believe the cadets are mean spirited because they question this girl's motives. I stand by the opinion that they are not, they just want her to drop the attitude. They are desiring to see if it is all about her, or all about the AF. Maybe they will haze her on the bus, but I have faith if they haze her and see that she is "ALL IN" for the AF they will drop it there and then.

JAM, I know you might not want to hear this, but I have to say that I think a lot of your defense posts are based upon the fact that your child is a DD. Not throwing stones, because my position is based on the fact that I have a DS.
 
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Thus, while I'm sure the accomplishments of Flynn are noteworthy, there has already been at least one woman in command of an Air Force combat wing (Minuteman III).
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I am kind of speechless.. Flynn is not only noteworthy, but out the door. She was on the covers of major magazines, like Time/Newsweek. She was the poster girl. I am not saying that missiles are not important, but it is not the same as a woman who could be shot down over enemy territory and captured,

You are actually implying throwing a missile from thousands of miles away in a safe location is the same as dropping a missile while SAMS are targeted on your jet. Jeannie Flynn and Nicole Malachowski (Fifi) are well aware that there is a difference.

I am sorry, but you do not understand the accomplishments of these women.
 
Like Steve, I kept my mouth shut for most of this. The thing is, I think there are a lot of excellent perspectives here to the overall topic. But we have to look at this thread, and all the perspectives, similar to building a house. You have a general contractor, an electrician, a carpenter, a brick layer, those who do dry wall, those who do carpeting, etc.... And each of these groups of people will have their own perspective to the overall picture of the house and it's outcome.

JAM is correct that the individual in question shouldn't be pre-judged before coming in.

Steve is correct that a prospective cadet needs to have pride, dreams, a bit of arrogance, and even contempt.

LITS is correct that that you can have everything that Steve admires, but do it "Humbly". e.g. "I am going to BE the best" vs "I am going to TRY and be the best I can be". "I will miss my CAP friends, but I'm moving on to......." vs "I will miss my CAP, but I'm going to be PART of something new with OTHER OUTSTANDING individuals who have also worked hard....."

CadCandMateus is correct is pointing out "FUTURE APPLICANTS ON THIS FORUM" that you need to be careful in how you present yourself. To be proud, yet humble in knowing that there are others that will join you that have accomplished just as much, and have dreams similar to yours. In other words, you're not as unique as you may think you are.

All of these positions on how this house should be built: aka, how an applicant/prospective cadet should conduct themselves with respect to the academy and OTHER potential cadets; is perfectly correct. The best answer, is to COMBINE to opinions, suggestions, and advice given here. Then, you would have potential cadets that maintain their dreams, pride, and internal arrogance to believe that they can accomplish anything, along with the "RESPECT" for other cadets and realize that they too have the ability to accomplish all of their dreams and aspirations.

Unlike a face to face debate, we can't morph our ideas like we would like to. And that is one reason I am long winded at times. Trying to ensure that not only my words are interpreted the way I intended, but also that my words are put into context with the ENTIRE thread that I am commenting on. Same here. Take what Cadc, JAM, Steve, LITS, etc... have said, and put it into context. If you do, I think you will find that everyone pretty much agrees with how the final product "Cadet" should evolve. Remember, it's not always WHAT was said, but HOW it was said. A lot of great advice has been given here for future cadets. How to present yourself. How to respect your peers. How to respect subordinates. How to give others the benefit of the doubt. How not to judge. and the list goes on. "Peace out"..... Mike.....
 
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