Members of the military must learn to connect with American civilians

[cb7893]

My generation communicates with the civilian world through social media and hanging out with friends. Somehow I don't think that is what the author envisions....

So what does Kirby think we should actually DO?

Don't know what Kirby thinks you should do, but this is what I tell my DS's to do..

Get off the social media and get informed about those very issues that Scout and Christcorp are arguing about.

Start with websites of Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek, The Economist. Get long form reporting in New Yorker, Vanity Fair, and believe it or not Rolling Stone has some good stuff.

Most important, when engaging with civilians, don't find yourself needing to express your informed opinions using "funny pictures" sent you over social media.

 

[scoutpilot]

CC I think you're reading this the exact opposite that I am. I also think your approach is the typical DOD approach.

You're saying "American's need to learn more about..."

I don't disagree with that, by the way.

Kirby is saying "Service members need to learn more about..."

Which I also don't disagree with.

I was a PAO for five years (and based on the comments on Kirby's article, it's clear not everyone likes a PAO...unless they get press, but that's another story). We constantly engaged the public. Air shows, conferences, booths are fairs and festivals... whatever. I think there's plenty of time, energy and money put forward to educate the public (and I didn't even mention the services' motion picture offices).

What we don't do a good job of is, educated the other way. TAPs, as it relates to reintegrating with the public, focuses specifically on searching for jobs. Wear a conservative tie... create marketing cards.... do this with your resume.

What you aren't aware of is how the job market is, how the private sector work place is, the stigma of service, what are hot button items for the public, etc etc etc.

My Facebook wall blew up when Tuition Assistance was pulled for a short time, friends from the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and Coast Guard all had something to say. You know who didn't have much to say? Everyone else. There are other concerns for them, like tax penalties to their healthcare plans thanks to Obama Care aka the Affordable Care Act. Some are worried about contracts or job cuts or pay cuts. Whatever. They aren't too worked up about a reduction in tuition assistance for 1% of the population.

While I understand what you're saying CC, and for the most part agree, I think Kirby is saying something different. He's not saying we need more airshows or more comms plans for marketing the services.... he's saying open your eyes and ears and listen to the other 99% that's gone about it's business, independent of your service.

Well said.

 

[MedB]

With all due respect to CC and others...

The very idea that the public needs to be educated on why BAH isn't taxed, is an example of the kind of upside down thinking the author was warning against.

I know this is just one example that was given, but do you really think the general public even knows what BAH is? Or any of the other military benefits?

The average American has no idea what the miliatry benefits are. If they have a negative view of the military it's because of their percieved role as unnecessary warriors of a bygone age (polite version).

The author was advocating the idea that the military look outward instead of inward. That they focus on the public's challenges, concerns, way of life, etc.... not that they help the public focus on their's.

 

[Rac_1931]

I am one of those civilians with whom the admiral wishes to better connect. I have worked in the private sector the entirety of my 30-year working career.

A large percentage of the population will never understand the concerns of our deployed military or the hardships the families endure while a family member is deployed. For the most part, almost all veterans will become part of the civilian world and share the same concerns as the general population. I am just not sure that the military is going to be able to successfully connect with a large percentage of the population that knows more about the Kardashians than our elected leaders.

I have also noticed during my adult life that we have become less civil to each other. Each side is so entrenched in their dogma; they refuse to consider alternate perspectives or points of view. Let the military continue to do what they do best. Throwing too many resources at the problem is not going to solve the problem until we receive buy-in from stakeholders (the citizenry of this country). Until we have a populous that accepts some onus of responsibility, the gap of understanding will remain.

 

[Christcorp]

MedB, you are totally correct...... It was an "Example". No, the local civilian doesn't need to know about BHA. But there are many that don't think military personnel pay taxes because they ARE the government. I've met a LOT of these people in my life. What they need to learn is that military members are a real part of their community. They aren't the "3rd person". They pay taxes like everyone else. The cost of inflation affects them too. And, that a lot of the money that is spent on defense is recycled throughout society. Yes, there is room to cut some spending. Just that there's a difference between military spending and "Entitlement" spending.

And for what it's worth, there's a lot of times what a politician is quoted as saying, is what they want the voters and average person to know. There's a lot that they don't tell you. Especially if they WANT to cut the military.

 

[Jcleppe]

A lot of young people who have school and the SA's, especially the SA's, and are now on Active Duty have a real lack of understanding for the civilian world. Their employment is secure, for at least a few years, and they find they don't need to deal with the same issues such as health care like those in the civilian world.

I agree the sentiment that the military needs the civilian world to become more educated about the military is short sided, those in the military need to be better atuned to the rest of the world. I don't think you need to friend every civilian on facebook, but you do need to try and be involved outside the military community.

I don't believe this issue is exclusive to the military, those in law enforcement tend to group together, firefighters, in some ways the medical community, although they seem to find a way to be a part of the outside community as well.

Young Junior enlisted have the hardes time due to the fact most of them live in the bubble of base housing. Junior officers have a better opportunity to be present in the community since most start out living off base.

I very rarely had anyone ask me about BAH or how it worked, most just wanted to know what I did, I in turn asked about them, learned what they dealt with in their lives. I think that communication is the key and it needs to be a two way street. As a member of the military, if one can make themselves seen as just a member of the community as a whole, it will be better for everyone.

I've been out of the service a long time, now I watch my sons as they navigate these issues. My older son lives in that bubble now while at Flight School, soon he will be done and I have always given him the same advice. My younger son is not at a SA, to be honest, he spends an equal amount if not more time with the civilian side of school. I have told him to keep this perspective once he graduates, don't live just in the military bubble.

I don't think there needs to be a formal plan, I agree with LITS and Scout as far as the need to remain educated on what civilian life is like, this will in the end help to bridge the gap in my opinion.

 

[goaliedad]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. For a while, I thought the mods would be swooping in to lock it down when it started turning a bit political. I'm glad it wasn't, although I don't necessarily want to go back in that direction.

My take on the message is...
1) The military has built a tremendous positive image in the minds of our political leaders and the public at large. Let's not blow it... Here is how:
2) You've figured out how to sit down with the Afghans, listen to them, and work in their world, now figure out your own political system and figure out how to do the same in your native country with its leaders.
3) You live in a different world than the civilians who put you on a pedestal and want to hear about your world. Care as much and take as much interest in theirs as they do in yours.

It is easy for anyone in this country to lose yourselves in whatever bubble we live in. Cadets at the academy, cadets on a college campus, officers deployed overseas or spending their days on base, retired officers working in the industry, or for those of us lucky enough to have successful children in these situations all live in a bubble.

We aren't in the less successful population that was discussed earlier - most of us don't even associate with that population, yet we ignore the advice given and echo the popular press' reports of how this population lives instead of seeking them out and listening to them.

Nobody chooses to be in those less successful lifestyles. They look up to their military as someone they wish they could be. There are about as many reasons for these people to be where they are as you could imagine. Some are socialized into it from birth. If all you've seen is the grinding poverty of backwoods Appalachia or dysfunctional inner cities (without the real world guidance of successful parents) where all earnest effort is wasted looking for opportunities that are not visible.

And as much as we would like to think that our efforts have insulated us and our children from such a fate, let me tell you but for the grace of God go any of us. So many paths to poverty exist that we cannot control. Illness (both physical and mental) and injury (well known to many of our hidden disable vets) can find any of us.

I have a son who is collecting Social Security Disability, Medicaid, and Food Stamps (a whopping $16/mo) and living in Section 8 housing. He is a high functioning Autistic (Aspergers), who we (with all our advantages of being privileged enough to pay taxes) put every effort into getting the best professional help we could afford. We managed to find him an opportunity working in a local grocery store bagging at age 15 where he struggled and made his way up to checker. After graduating high school he kept upping his hours working towards a full-time schedule, while struggling with the work environment (the noisy environment of a large grocery store is quite overwhelming to sensory challenges of Autistic individuals). His mental health started to deteriorate and eventually he had to be hospitalized for a period of time after the bi-polar depression that was coming on overwhelmed him. He worked his way through living in a supervised living facility and into living on his own.

He was fortunate enough to get in the minimum 20 quarters (5 years) of Social Security to qualify for disability. It isn't generous - ~ 10K per year. The rest of the government safety net - Medicaid, Section 8 housing (30% of his income gets him a 650 sq ft efficiency with utilities paid), and Food Stamps of $16/per month because of his housing assistance makes him too well off for more aid.

If he could find some paying work (still a questionable proposition), he loses disability money and probably puts him back in that bad place again.

But to meet him in a casual situation, you wouldn't know he was disabled. He is reasonably articulate. He appears in good health (although overweight). Some might think he is mooching off the system. He doesn't want to be in this situation. He tries to contribute to those around him (he lives in a large building filled entirely with disabled and elderly low-income residents) by running the Second Harvest food distribution every week (3 hours), running the building computer lab (he can build computers from parts), and helping the residents with their individual computer problems.

That is my anecdote for those on government assistance. It is my view outside of my otherwise privileged bubble into the world of those who don't contribute as much as I do to our great country. There are probably lots of other places outside of my bubble I should explore to find out how people who admire my lifestyle struggle just to put together a more basic life.

While I agree with the idea that our government programs are not doing a great job of optimizing the contributing ability of those they serve, I struggle to suggest a more effective method that doesn't involve getting more of the community involved with those they overlook. We do an adequate job of relieving some of the financial pressure on many of those who struggle, but all too often a check isn't what these people need. If those who complain about the cost of helping those who struggle actually spent their days doing something about it, they might actually appreciate the scope of the problem and how much we achieve. I would also say that those who complain about the cost of the military should spend the time with those who have to deal with the messy details of solving a social issues going back longer than memories recall.

It would be a lot easier to say then that we don't pay enough for the government we want. The question is are we willing to walk away from what we get for what we pay?

 

[Christcorp]

Every military person KNOWS some civilians. Parents, relatives, new friends, etc... But not every civilian personally knows a military person. Both sides need to know more about each other, but military personnel aren't as isolated as you believe. They don't have as deep of a lack of understanding of civilians as you believe. Especially the longer they've been in. Most military people aren't dating and marrying other military members. With that, come many civilian friends, in-laws, etc... Conversations such as unemployment, taxes, inflation, crime, etc... are discussed. Just like among any other group of individuals.

Point is, while both sides need more understanding of the other, military members know more about civilians than civilians know about the military. There's 1.4 million active duty military. There's 314 million Americans. That means that 0.32% of the population is active duty military. And with the majority of Americans not living near a military installation or knowing military personnel; and the majority of the information they do know of military being biased by the media or politicians; I'd say there are some lies and stereotypes that they need to know.

I'm sure there will be a lot of cadets/future officers who come from non-military families, who are going to have a lot of discussions with their mom, dad, brother/sister, friends, etc... about the economy, politics, taxes, etc....

 

[cb7893]

let me tell you but for the grace of God go any of us.

Goalie, Thanks for bringing us back to planet earth.

 

[Aglahad]

Although I am still rather "green" as an officer, one motif I did notice in ROTC, at military hospitals, on base, and on active duty is the a sense of entitlement from my peers. A lot feel like society for some reason owes them something or that their classmates in college were somehow not as hard working as them. I really can't put my finger on the situation via eloquent syntax but there was a real disconnect on my college campus with ROTC cadets and the general student body. Obviously this disconnect widens as the officer spends more time being indoctrinated into the military. I have a few older friends who transferred from DoD life to Fortune 500 companies and they all said it was a rough transition getting into the corporate atmosphere.

Don't get me started on the ER. Civvy vs Military ERs are totally different worlds.

 

[EDelahanty]

goaliedad, thank you for your touching and very personal post.

It was far more meaningful and reflective of life in this country than Rear Adm. Kirby's article. I'm still not sure who his real audience was - senior career officers like himself, perhaps - or for that matter what his message to them was.

 

[scoutpilot]

Don't get me started on the ER. Civvy vs Military ERs are totally different worlds.

Definitely. I don't know anyone who willingly chooses the military ER when given a choice. The hospital here is awful, and serves mostly as a transfer terminal to the better civilian hospitals.

 

[LineInTheSand]

goaliedad, thank you for your touching and very personal post.

It was far more meaningful and reflective of life in this country than Rear Adm. Kirby's article. I'm still not sure who his real audience was - senior career officers like himself, perhaps - or for that matter what his message to them was.

The "article" was taken from a speech the admiral made at.... either the National Defense University or the Naval War College. Either way, it was probably delivered to senior officers, if not a few flag/general officers.

 

[EDelahanty]

The "article" was taken from a speech the admiral made at.... either the National Defense University or the Naval War College. Either way, it was probably delivered to senior officers, if not a few flag/general officers.

Thanks for redirecting my attention, LITS. I overlooked the italicized intro indicating it was adapted from "commencement remarks" at the Naval War College. This explains why it seemed to me to have a slightly disjointed "talking point" tone.

He was speaking to an elite group who were finishing graduate studies, mostly from the Navy, but Army and USMC also. This is certainly a different category than enlisted personnel and ROTC cadets. In the Washington Post article he seemed to have a particular interest in cautioning the listeners to be careful of how they dealt with folks such as those in Congress. The Naval War College summary was slightly different and shorter, dwelling similarly on the need to be politically astute.

Maybe the theme between the lines was "We've mostly had it pretty good for a while but the money faucet is getting turned down."