MSVs and the FY16 OML Calculation

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Jcc123, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    "Hypothetical" situation - you're a current MSIV, engineering major, attended LDAC summer of 14, but will not graduate until December '15 due to engineering course requirements, etc. ADSO'd for Engineer Branch, have approx a 3.0, so qualify for the special programs/guaranteed active duty, etc. Life is good.

    Now, however, due to changes to the FY16 OML calculation, i.e. the removal of ROTC courses from the GPA calculation, you no longer have the 2.75 required to get guaranteed AD through the special program. Not only that, but since all new additions to your OML score ended upon attendance at LDAC/CLC, you aren't able to do the other things now required to improve your score - public speaking, published papers, etc. So, in a nutshell, you've just been "re-calculated" out of your guaranteed AD slot/branch.

    Is there any recourse for a cadet facing this situation? I'm usually the first to jump on the "your OML score is 100% in your control" soapbox, but in this case, it clearly isn't. The cadet did everything required per the regulations in effect until, of course, they changed. Does anyone know if exceptions might possibly be made for cadets finding themselves caught between two drastically different OML models?
     
  2. mbitr

    mbitr Member

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    There's always a way. Be proactive and talk to your HRA and PMS about it. Better to have a component appeal already drafted and ready to go.
     
  3. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    This is not for me or my DS, but I do know more than one cadet in his Bn is affected by this. I assume it may not be an uncommon issue. It may be compounded by the fact that, unlike many schools, by the time a cadet finishes their MSIII year at his school, he has 30 +/- hours of ROTC credits (they all receive a minor in Military Science). Removing 30 hours of 4.0 classes can be a significant hit to the GPA.

    His PMS is not offering any assistance, and has only said there's nothing he can do, so I was hoping someone here had heard of a similar situation and had some concrete steps these cadets could take. Thanks for the suggestion, Mbitr.
     
  4. platypus1618

    platypus1618 Member

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    I understand what you're saying and I get why it would be frustrating, but I don't really have a lot of sympathy, for 2 reasons. First, students at schools that don't count military science have always had to maintain their GPAs without that significant boost from an easy A every semester while others get to take advantage of it. I don't think that's any less unfair, and they never had any chance at an appeal. And second, I know engineering is difficult, but if they can't maintain a 2.75... I just don't feel that sorry for them.
    I know this is sort of off topic since you asked a specific question and I'm not addressing that at all, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts. And, I do get that your point is that they fulfilled the requirement, upholding their end of the deal, so to speak, and the army is failing to uphold their end, but that sort of comes with the territory. Current MSIs signed their contracts thinking they would only have to go to LDAC, and are ending up missing out on two summers during which their peers will be able to get jobs, internships, etc. The current 4s who worked to excel at the APFT, land nav, etc, found that all that time and effort did nothing for them at LDAC. The army changes the rules, some people get shafted, is just how I figure ROTC works.
     
  5. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    I actually agree with you 100% on all the points you made, although sympathy doesn't really factor into it. I am simply curious if this is a common problem and if any other cadets have found a means to deal with it. The Army has historically grandfathered existing contracts when the rules changed, but don't seem to be in this instance.
     
  6. mbitr

    mbitr Member

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    At the end of the day, the only promise in that contract is the opportunity to accept a commission if offered. The Army isn't failing to uphold anything.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    On top of the MS credits being removed, these continuation cadets will now have to take the new Standardized testing, this would be one way a cadet in this situation could help themselves since the GPA value has gon from 40 to 25%. Add to that the cadet that has an engineering major will receive the total 4 points for their ADM, this will be a boost above those cadets that are ADM 1 & 2 which could help them as well. While his GPA may slip the other factors may make some of that up. It does sound like he would not be able to take advantage of the Special Branching Program but will still have ways to boost his OML score.
     
  8. platypus1618

    platypus1618 Member

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    I know the army isn't technically failing to uphold anything, mbitr, which is why I said "so to speak."
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Not intending to stray to far off the topic, I do have a question.

    So, CC plans to remove the ROTC MS classes from the GPA calculation, I understand the intent, make it a more level playing field with those schools that don't count the MS classes.

    So here's my question, The MS3 and MS4 classes my son took were counted by the university as upper division related fields class for his major, they were part of his degree audit for graduation. If a school counts these credits as part of the student's major, will CC count those credits and not count the credits that were listed as only electives?

    What about schools that offer a Minor in Military Science, will those credits count. I know there are actually a few schools that offer a major in Military Science, what about those credits.

    There is no argument that the MS credits have been a huge benefit for some cadets, there are schools that count as many as 34 credit over the first six semesters, depending on how the student is doing in their other classes, that can make a difference of more then 2 points on a GPA, cadets that have a 3.67 would see their GPA drop to 3.47. Of course those cadets that are attending schools that don't count the MS classes are already at the lower GPA, so I understand CC's intent.

    Removing the MS credits may be a start in leveling the GPA question, but it still doesn't take into account the different degree of difficulty between schools including grade inflation at some schools. Not sure they will ever be able to find and solution to that issue, lowering the value of the GPA on the OML is a good start.

    Having the GPA now only count for 25% will make up for a lot of this, of course the standardized testing is a whole different discussion. I imagine the Average GPA for the OML will be lower then it has been in the past.
     
  10. uniform 419

    uniform 419 GMU CDT

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    Wait, is GPA frozen too on attendance of CLC/LDAC? I attended LDAC last Summer, but took an incomplete in a research class last Spring, which dropped me from a 3.94 to a 3.78 in order to do research overseas this year while on LOA (which will of course go back to a 3.94 once the work is submitted)
     
  11. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    That is my understanding, but as the information has been pretty sparse thus far, I could certainly be wrong.
     
  12. kellen0176

    kellen0176 AROTC MSIV

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    I was told they use whatever your GPA is after the first six semesters.
     
  13. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Which is, technically, the same as it being frozen upon attendance at LDAC/CLC, assuming attendance is after the MSIII year.
     

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