My son is struggling academically in his Freshman Year....

[Rocko]

Besides, if you want to start a new thread about alcohol feel free. This is about academics, not drinking.

Wonderfulmom, I was not the one who introduced alcohol to this thread, I merely responded to it. It was talked about in numerous posts prior to mine including a couple from you.

You tell me to create a new thread if I want to discuss alcohol, as this thread is about Academics, and then respond with another link regarding alcohol. You seem to be okay with it as long as it conforms to your views.

I wish your DS nothing but the best in his time at the Academy.

 

[Wonderfulmom]

Wonderfulmom, I was not the one who introduced alcohol to this thread, I merely responded to it. It was talked about in numerous posts prior to mine including a couple from you.

You tell me to create a new thread if I want to discuss alcohol, as this thread is about Academics, and then respond with another link regarding alcohol. You seem to be okay with it as long as it conforms to your views.

I wish your DS nothing but the best in his time at the Academy.

Thank-you.

 

[TampaDad]

All this talk about dreading returning to the Academy , even years after graduation, has me wondering if it is the right place for my son. Granted I'm coming from the civilian side of things, but I have multiple degrees from multiple universities and love returning to all of them. Do you dread returning just because it was so academically demanding, emotionally draining, devoid of a social life, something else or a bit of everything?

 

[NavyHoops]

It's more going back to the grind. As Plebes it is a nice break from the routine of Plebe life and it is hard to hear friends having so much fun at college. Once they get back and in the routine everyone is fine. The firsties are usually fired up to go back and the 2/C are ready to get back usually. As you progress each year at a SA it becomes more of a home and a place you want to be at because your friends are there. Each you Mids/cadets will also tend to spend less time at home on leave as they travel with friends and do other things.

 

[Capt MJ]

All this talk about dreading returning to the Academy , even years after graduation, has me wondering if it is the right place for my son. Granted I'm coming from the civilian side of things, but I have multiple degrees from multiple universities and love returning to all of them. Do you dread returning just because it was so academically demanding, emotionally draining, devoid of a social life, something else or a bit of everything?

It's time to trot out a well-known saying at USNA: "bad place to be, great place to be from." Once graduated, USNA alumni, in general, enjoy returning. My husband's class, for one of its major milestone reunions, had 725 members of a 981 sized class attend. Reunion weekends occur every football weekend in the fall, not just the one labeled Homecoming, and jam the town. Our sponsor alumni family return for weddings, reunions and just plain visits - going for dawn runs around the Yard, hitting the Mid Store, going to service at the Chapel, meeting with area classmates at a favorite DTA (downtown Annapolis) haunt. There are many grads who eventually settle in the area and in greater DC, and they involve themselves in sponsoring mids and other USNA programs. There are 9 USNA alumni amongst our neighbors. There are always grads walking around Annapolis.

Of course, there are some who never set foot on the Yard again. It is a grind, a long slog, and after goofing off during a break or long weekend, it's no different than going back into the office on Monday morning.

It's a different "collegiate" experience, but those years of mutual slogging bind them together in a unique way. They all go to work for the same corporation afterwards, the Navy-Marine Corps arm of DOD, and continue to see each other there. They are commonly rooted in Yard experience, and those "bad days" stories emerge later as lightly told tales of shared survival. Still having those feelings years later - like muscle memory. I believe these cultural similarities extend across all 5 Academies.

I was back in the Pentagon a month ago for a ceremony, and had anxiety dreams that night of some crisis I had failed to prepare for and had to brief senior admirals on, completely unprepared. All because I was back in the Pentagon for 4 hours. I woke at 0200 with pounding heart and dry mouth. Husband asked "what's wrong?" "Pentagon dream." "Oh, got it, the usual?" He had two tours there.

The SAs are intense pressure-cookers, with really high highs and low lows. Once mids commit to their service obligation at the start of junior year, they know they can't walk away without severe consequences. That environment makes for deep-cut experiential memories.

 

[trackandfield08]

All this talk about dreading returning to the Academy , even years after graduation, has me wondering if it is the right place for my son. Granted I'm coming from the civilian side of things, but I have multiple degrees from multiple universities and love returning to all of them. Do you dread returning just because it was so academically demanding, emotionally draining, devoid of a social life, something else or a bit of everything?

TampaDad, I apologize if my post gave you the perception that myself and others truly dread the Academy. That is most certainly not the case. As Capt MJ and NavyHoops have said, each service academy is a neverending grind of academics, sports, military obligations, etc. You operate under tight time constraints and stress for four years but it is designed that way for a reason. That reason is that when you graduate, you are expected to be able to handle stress and the pressure of qualifying, leading a division, handling collateral duties, and more. The government has a responsibility to the respective service and the general public to make sure you can handle it. However, that does not mean that my time at the Academy was devoid of social life and unenjoyable. I truly enjoyed the majority of my experience there. I have made lifelong relationships with my classmates and the unique bond made from having an experience outside of the cultural norm is a special one. I was in a wedding for one of my best friend's from the Academy a few weeks ago. There were several classmates and a few people from other classes who attended. I had not seen them in almost two years but it was almost like we had never been apart. Because of the Academy, I have done and seen things I never would have dreamed I would do. While there are times I may have felt sick driving over Gold Star Bridge, there are times now when I drive over that same bridge on leave to NJ and smile because of the experiences I have had.

One of the things I have noticed about those who attend SAs is that while we may complain or say we hate the Academy, none of us would want to be, or have graduted from, anywhere else.

 

[TampaDad]

Capt. MJ, I hear what you are saying about USNA, but the USNA is also 4 times the size of USCGA and is located in a much larger town. People visit Annapolis just to visit the town, regardless of the Academy. I'm betting not too many folks plan their vacations around New London (although Mystic might have some draw). Don't get me wrong, DS loved his visit to USCGA and the cadets we met seemed to be enjoying their time. But, even he noted that the Academy was less than half the size of his high school.

I'm just wondering if he might be better off trying the ROTC at a traditional college route (I'm not really sure what that entails). Is it even possible to go from ROTC to the Coast Guard? He knows where he wants to end up (officer in the Coast Guard) but neither of us are sure of the most appropriate way for him to get there.

Personally, I think he would thrive in the tight knit, close quarters, well regimented environment of the Academy. But he just isn't sure. And of course going with me to visit my old schools hasn't helped the situation much.

 

[LineInTheSand]

If he wants to be a Coast Guard officer, there is not better way than going through USCGA. Don't do it, and you're just testing fate…. because OCS isn't a given.

Of course, OCS COULD happen, but just understand there's a risk and I personally don't think OCS prepares folks to be a Coast Guard officer anywhere near the level of USCGA.

Officers are officers in the Coast Guard and you're not going to immediately know if an officer is the product of CGA or OCS…. but when it comes down to it, the CGA network is much much stronger.

Case in point, I've been out of the Coast Guard for almost five years. Starting a new job I found that a 1976 and a 1982 CGA grad was also at my job. I sent them emails saying hi. One immediately invited me up to his office to talk and the other went to lunch with me a day or two later. It was nice to have that connection.

 

[NavyHoops]

And what LITS is describing I have run across as a USNA grad. I moved to a new city a few years ago in which I knew exactly zero people. I emailed the President of the Alumni Association and I immediately had a list of my classmates in the area and a realtor who was a grad. I work for a Fortune 100 company with over 200,000 employees. I met another grad a few weeks into my new job and he has been great as now my mentor. We have a handful of grads and we meet up once a month for lunch and for football games. I honestly know if I ever had an issue at work or personally I could call those guys and they would help me. Same goes for all my friends from USNA. We may not see each other a lot, but it's like we never were apart. They are my best friends and we have done it all together from weddings, births, injuries, war, funerals and many others. I know if I ever had an issue I could call them and they would appear at my door without asking!

 

[forumjunkie]

Don't know if They have it, but if so Summer School for Sure. My son (USNA) did not have to have it, but asked for and got it for the last 2 summers. It really helped reduce his work load in the regular academic year. A LIFE SAVER!

 

[LineInTheSand]

Won't happen at CGA (only summer school for academic issues the first year).

 

[Wonderfulmom]

Capt. MJ, I hear what you are saying about USNA, but the USNA is also 4 times the size of USCGA and is located in a much larger town. People visit Annapolis just to visit the town, regardless of the Academy. I'm betting not too many folks plan their vacations around New London (although Mystic might have some draw). Don't get me wrong, DS loved his visit to USCGA and the cadets we met seemed to be enjoying their time. But, even he noted that the Academy was less than half the size of his high school.

I'm just wondering if he might be better off trying the ROTC at a traditional college route (I'm not really sure what that entails). Is it even possible to go from ROTC to the Coast Guard? He knows where he wants to end up (officer in the Coast Guard) but neither of us are sure of the most appropriate way for him to get there.

Personally, I think he would thrive in the tight knit, close quarters, well regimented environment of the Academy. But he just isn't sure. And of course going with me to visit my old schools hasn't helped the situation much.

Just make sure he is willing to ask for help from the instructors constantly if he struggles. I wish someone would have given us that advice before he went.

 

[Wonderfulmom]

Just make sure he is willing to ask for help from the instructors constantly if he struggles. I wish someone would have given us that advice before he went.

Capt. MJ, I hear what you are saying about USNA, but the USNA is also 4 times the size of USCGA and is located in a much larger town. People visit Annapolis just to visit the town, regardless of the Academy. I'm betting not too many folks plan their vacations around New London (although Mystic might have some draw). Don't get me wrong, DS loved his visit to USCGA and the cadets we met seemed to be enjoying their time. But, even he noted that the Academy was less than half the size of his high school.

I'm just wondering if he might be better off trying the ROTC at a traditional college route (I'm not really sure what that entails). Is it even possible to go from ROTC to the Coast Guard? He knows where he wants to end up (officer in the Coast Guard) but neither of us are sure of the most appropriate way for him to get there.

Personally, I think he would thrive in the tight knit, close quarters, well regimented environment of the Academy. But he just isn't sure. And of course going with me to visit my old schools hasn't helped the situation much.

Most ROTC programs are very hard to get into now, due to budget cuts. A lot of times, they want you to pay for the first year and prove yourself, then apply. My son got in the academy but got turned down for ROTC.

 

[AuxNoob]

TampaDad, there are other methods for accession to CG officer. OCS for a civilian is probably the least likely. However, the remaining paths are nearly as difficult as CGA, and are also not a given, probably even not likely. You can PM me for details, or get the facts from gocoastguard dot com.

That said, LITS is completely correct. The best method to become a CG officer, if that is your son's goal, is through the Academy.

 

[Capt MJ]

Tampa Dad, as I have watched this thread unfold, my mind returned to your DS's noting CGA was smaller than his high school. What specifically is he focusing on as a concern? That would probably help the small contingent of always worthwhile CGA posters address his concerns. I think it's been made clear the "dread" feelings are common across all Academies, that bonds are tight amongst cadets/mids/grads. CG is different in that they do not have ROTC or require noms, but a small handful of other commissioning routes which are not what the majority of CG officers choose. FWIW, from my perspective as a USN officer, the CG officers I know are very tight-knit, tend to know everyone in their class, and cherish their compact size relative to the big three services. If DS is worried that a school that size won't offer him enough to do - wild guess - all SA mids-cadets are so busy that relative size means nothing. CG cadets do very interesting things, same as other SAs. For fun, as they get more privileges and mobility, the I-95 corridor takes them all over a great part of the country for cities and outdoors activities.

It comes down to what he feels is the best fit for him. No question is too shallow/silly/lightweight for SAF, and the CG grads/cadets on here can respond. Thinking about the SA culture is an important part of the process.

 

[TampaDad]

Most ROTC programs are very hard to get into now, due to budget cuts. A lot of times, they want you to pay for the first year and prove yourself, then apply. My son got in the academy but got turned down for ROTC.

It's rare that I say this, but money isn't really an issue. I had planned on paying for college anyway, so a scholarship would be just a bonus. Are you saying that your son could not get into ROTC even if he was paying his own way? Again, I am just now learning about how ROTC works after spending the last year trying to figure out how SA's work. I realize that CG does not have ROTC, so he would most likely go AFTROTC (he wants to go to flight school anyway and Air Force has always interested him, although not to the level CG does). With that in mind, if he gets into AFROTC (whether self pay or scholarship) and finishes the program without getting sidetracked by normal civilian life, can he become an officer in the Coast Guard somehow, or is he limited to Air Force? Is it like graduating from law school and being able to go into any area of law (realizing that new law grads really don't know anything and have to learn it at whatever firm they go to), or are the ROTC's more of an apprenticeship where you are focused on one branch to the point that your options are limited? My blind guess is that you are limited, especially if you are on scholarship, since it is a contractual agreement.

 

[TampaDad]

Tampa Dad, as I have watched this thread unfold, my mind returned to your DS's noting CGA was smaller than his high school. What specifically is he focusing on as a concern? That would probably help the small contingent of always worthwhile CGA posters address his concerns. I think it's been made clear the "dread" feelings are common across all Academies, that bonds are tight amongst cadets/mids/grads. CG is different in that they do not have ROTC or require noms, but a small handful of other commissioning routes which are not what the majority of CG officers choose. FWIW, from my perspective as a USN officer, the CG officers I know are very tight-knit, tend to know everyone in their class, and cherish their compact size relative to the big three services. If DS is worried that a school that size won't offer him enough to do - wild guess - all SA mids-cadets are so busy that relative size means nothing. CG cadets do very interesting things, same as other SAs. For fun, as they get more privileges and mobility, the I-95 corridor takes them all over a great part of the country for cities and outdoors activities.

It comes down to what he feels is the best fit for him. No question is too shallow/silly/lightweight for SAF, and the CG grads/cadets on here can respond. Thinking about the SA culture is an important part of the process.

I'm not sure that the small size necessarily "concerns" him. It was more of a surprise. His exposure to colleges have been the University of Florida and the University of South Florida. Both have over 35,000 students on campus. I think the smaller size is more conducive to learning as there should be less distractions. Even very focused individuals can get lost at the huge universities. He mentioned that the Academy was smaller than his high school, but then later said it was really cool that it had such a "family feel" to it. He really got a kick out of the fact that Capt. Robert McKenna was cooking burgers for us at the event we attended. I can promise you no one from admissions at UF/USF/FSU would be working the grill at a cookout for students. But he does wonder about missing out on the normal college experience.

He just has a lot going on in his head now that the reality that high school will be over in 16 months is starting to sink in. His buddies are just now starting to talk about their college plans. Most of his friends will either end up at major university or a small liberal arts college somewhere, but one senior teammate of his will be attending West Point and another senior teammate will likely be at USMMA next year, so that has been a good reminder that he has to figure things out pretty soon.

 

[kinnem]

If there is a path from a ROTC program to CG it is at least extremely rare and probably non-existent. Also each service community is somewhat different and the ROTC programs are as well. Certainly AFROTC is totally different from CG. NROTC? Not as much but still quite different. Think law enforcement vs military among other things.

 

[TampaDad]

If there is a path from a ROTC program to CG it is at least extremely rare and probably non-existent. Also each service community is somewhat different and the ROTC programs are as well. Certainly AFROTC is totally different from CG. NROTC? Not as much but still quite different. Think law enforcement vs military among other things.

Do you know anything about the Coast Guard's CSPI? It sounds like the CG's version of ROTC. In my brief reading, it sounds like a fairly reasonable alternative in the event DS decides against, or doesn't get accepted to, the CGA. DS would have to do well the first two years of standard college, but could then join CSPI and be on track to become a CG officer. There even seems to be a flight school path he could take if he qualifies (Wilks Flight Initiative?). He wouldn't get the real Academy experience, but he would get the 17 week OCS training at the Academy. There has to be a catch because it sounds like the best of both worlds.

Edit: I found the catch. DS would have to attend a "Hispanic Serving Institution." That, in and of itself, isn't really an issue since we have quite a few institutions that qualify here in Florida, but none of them are even on his radar right now due to the locations or majors.

 

[AuxNoob]

This is one of the paths that I was thinking of. The college must be a historically minority school. The student does not need to be in any minority group. There is a Direct Commision path for graduates of certain military colleges (VMI, the Citidel). There is the MARGRAD program for graduates of maritime colleges (including USMMA). The MARGRAD program tends to lean to inspections. Neither of these paths is easy, as they are also is a regimented lifestyle at their respective institutions. These are competative, and not many officers are drawn from the applicant pool from these programs.

He mentioned that the Academy was smaller than his high school, but then later said it was really cool that it had such a "family feel" to it. He really got a kick out of the fact that Capt. Robert McKenna was cooking burgers for us at the event we attended. I can promise you no one from admissions at UF/USF/FSU would be working the grill at a cookout for students. But he does wonder about missing out on the normal college experience.

Addressing that, I was at Parent's Weekend at CGA this past fall. I managed to corner a USNA mid and USAFA cadet who were standing together. I asked them to compare their experience at CGA to their respective Academies. The mid said that it was very much a family at CGA, everyone knows pretty much everyone. She also said at USNA you can kind of slide under the radar due to the large size, and you can't get away with that here. Everyone knows where you are and what you're doing. And you are always going to be doing something. The AFA cadet said "What she said". Interestingly, when my son was a 4/C, he talked with an exchanger from USMA, who said that the 4/C at CGA had it much tougher their first year than they did at West Point.

And my now 2/C son headed back early to meet up with friends. His first two years were pretty much like others have said. I've carpooled cadets back, and it gets quiet as you get close to campus. They get the thousand mile stare. I did once hear a quiet "There it is."