My son is struggling academically in his Freshman Year....

First let me apologize to WonderfulMom for completely hijacking her thread. I really should have started my own thread asking about other options if the CGA doesn't work out for DS. Second, thank you to all who responded to my questions, which must seem silly to folks who have been through the process already.
 
TampaDad said:
First let me apologize to WonderfulMom for completely hijacking her thread. I really should have started my own thread asking about other options if the CGA doesn't work out for DS. Second, thank you to all who responded to my questions, which must seem silly to folks who have been through the process already.
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No apologies needed. Best of luck to you and yours....
 
TampaDad said:
It's rare that I say this, but money isn't really an issue. I had planned on paying for college anyway, so a scholarship would be just a bonus. Are you saying that your son could not get into ROTC even if he was paying his own way? Again, I am just now learning about how ROTC works after spending the last year trying to figure out how SA's work. I realize that CG does not have ROTC, so he would most likely go AFTROTC (he wants to go to flight school anyway and Air Force has always interested him, although not to the level CG does). With that in mind, if he gets into AFROTC (whether self pay or scholarship) and finishes the program without getting sidetracked by normal civilian life, can he become an officer in the Coast Guard somehow, or is he limited to Air Force? Is it like graduating from law school and being able to go into any area of law (realizing that new law grads really don't know anything and have to learn it at whatever firm they go to), or are the ROTC's more of an apprenticeship where you are focused on one branch to the point that your options are limited? My blind guess is that you are limited, especially if you are on scholarship, since it is a contractual agreement.
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Different schools have different ROTC's. I noticed it was mostly Navy. He didn't get the scholarship one. I would imagine it would be far easier to get into the non-scholarship one. The Academy is not like a normal college. You can't drop classes you aren't doing well in. You don't get to choose your courses as a freshman. Plus, there are lots and I mean lots of extra time burdens. Also, how good was the high school your son went to? Did they focus on grades or content. Was it a public H.S.? If so, how good are the schools in your state? A lot of High schools allow homework and things to jack the grades up high, which keeps the parents happy, but the student hasn't mastered the core content of Calculus or Chemistry. The Academy instructors don't care about grades or bell curves. They care that the student has a mastery of the subject. It's very rigorous.
 
Wonderfulmom said:
Different schools have different ROTC's. I noticed it was mostly Navy. He didn't get the scholarship one. I would imagine it would be far easier to get into the non-scholarship one. The Academy is not like a normal college. You can't drop classes you aren't doing well in. You don't get to choose your courses as a freshman. Plus, there are lots and I mean lots of extra time burdens. Also, how good was the high school your son went to? Did they focus on grades or content. Was it a public H.S.? If so, how good are the schools in your state? A lot of High schools allow homework and things to jack the grades up high, which keeps the parents happy, but the student hasn't mastered the core content of Calculus or Chemistry. The Academy instructors don't care about grades or bell curves. They care that the student has a mastery of the subject. It's very rigorous.
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His high school is one of the rare public schools that is incredibly rigorous. Produces lots of National Merit Scholars. The teachers give very little slack. Always ranked as one of the top public high schools in the nation. I think he would really do well at the academy (busy work homework has always been his weak point).
 
TampaDad said:
His high school is one of the rare public schools that is incredibly rigorous. Produces lots of National Merit Scholars. The teachers give very little slack. Always ranked as one of the top public high schools in the nation. I think he would really do well at the academy (busy work homework has always been his weak point).
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Hahaha, sounds like my high school….. I graduated toward the bottom of my class.


CGA was not a pleasant place, but it was a good place. The folks who came in to speak or the exposure we got, as cadets, to the world was simply amazing.

And even as we talk about "there it is" and the sick feeling of returning (and I haven't even mentioned the scary dreams after you graduate of having to do it all over again…. or even be a swab as an officer), I would do it again.

Beyond the experience of being an officer in the Coast Guard, CGA helped me become more independent and confident (while also causing me to doubt my worthiness).

Someone above said that CGA grads know most of their classmates (being 1/4 the size of the D-1 service academies is helpful). In reality, you'll know ALL of your classmates and 99.9% of the class ahead and behind you, and probably 75-85% of the classes two ahead and two behind you. You'll even know a decent number of cadets three years ahead and behind you. And once you're in the fleet you'll see them again.

OCS is at CGA… but it is not CGA. It's 17 weeks in a separate area. There's little overlap (and frankly CGA cadets and OCs don't really feel the need to overlap).

Trying to go from AFROTC to the Coast Guard is NOT advisable. First, the Air Force paid for all of that training…. so don't assume they're just itching to pass off that investment to another service. Second, there's little a cadet in AFROTC will know that will help him or her in the Coast Guard….. very little. Third, there are a number of hoops to jump through to join the Coast Guard, and you'll never know how likely it will be, from year to year.

And lastly, as a high school senior a USNA BGO visited my school. Two midshipmen were manning a USNA booth during lunch. That BGO (who I really liked…. he lived in my neighborhood), ask the midshipmen which the toughest service academy was, both said CGA. It surprised the BGO and it surprised me. The truth is, when a school is 1/4 the size, it's hard to just blend in and go with the flow. You can't really get lost in the crowd. I sure wish I could have!!! HAHAHA
 
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LineInTheSand said:
Hahaha, sounds like my high school….. I graduated toward the bottom of my class.


CGA was not a pleasant place, but it was a good place. The folks who came in to speak or the exposure we got, as cadets, to the world was simply amazing.

And even as we talk about "there it is" and the sick feeling of returning (and I haven't even mentioned the scary dreams after you graduate of having to do it all over again…. or even be a swab as an officer), I would do it again.

Beyond the experience of being an officer in the Coast Guard, CGA helped me become more independent and confident (while also causing me to doubt my worthiness).

Someone above said that CGA grads know most of their classmates (being 1/4 the size of the D-1 service academies is helpful). In reality, you'll know ALL of your classmates and 99.9% of the class ahead and behind you, and probably 75-85% of the classes two ahead and two behind you. You'll even know a decent number of cadets three years ahead and behind you. And once you're in the fleet you'll see them again.

OCS is at CGA… but it is not CGA. It's 17 weeks in a separate area. There's little overlap (and frankly CGA cadets and OCs don't really feel the need to overlap).

Trying to go from AFROTC to the Coast Guard is NOT advisable. First, the Air Force paid for all of that training…. so don't assume they're just itching to pass off that investment to another service. Second, there's little a cadet in AFROTC will know that will help him or her in the Coast Guard….. very little. Third, there are a number of hoops to jump through to join the Coast Guard, and you'll never know how likely it will be, from year to year.

And lastly, as a high school senior a USNA BGO visited my school. Two midshipmen were manning a USNA booth during lunch. That BGO (who I really liked…. he lived in my neighborhood), ask the midshipmen which the toughest service academy was, both said CGA. It surprised the BGO and it surprised me. The truth is, when a school is 1/4 the size, it's hard to just blend in and go with the flow. You can't really get lost in the crowd. I sure wish I could have!!! HAHAHA
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Okay, I've written off the idea of AFROTC to CG. :). That was just based on one of the universities he is looking at as part of his contingency plan. But CSPI is probably his Plan B at this point. CGA is still his clear Number 1.
 
We make CGA sound scarier than it is. I'll say it's very unpleasant the first year. I don't think I made it any easier. I had some trouble adjusting, didn't make many friends and had issues in the gym and in the classroom (and I guess in Chase Hall…. so pretty much I had issues everywhere). When I got to 3/c year I moved companies (I'm not sure how they do it now, but when I was a cadet you were in one company 4/c year and then a different company for your remaining three years…. we also only had Xray, Yankee and Zulu companies during Swab Summer). Well, 3/c year was a nice change. I made friends with company mates, could finally be friends with members of the class ahead of us, and had a much better life. I also started studying things I was interested in. The summer between 3/c and 2/c year was a defining summer when we got MUCH closer to our classmates and tried our hands at leadership. At this point we had real ownership in the Corps of Cadets. I find when you have ownership in something (and this is just as true for me now, out in the real world) you try harder and you take more pride in what you do. The next two years, especially firstie (senior) year, were great.

And just when things got good, it was time to leave.

I mentioned how there is a network of alumni. What I haven't touched on is how close you get to your classmates. You see them at their worst and they'll see you at your worst…. and when you see someone at their worst there are less games to play. It doesn't mean EVERYONE will be your friend. Just like anywhere else, I had classmates I liked and classmates I wasn't especially fond of. But whether I liked them or not, I can say my door is always open to any of them.

And I met my best friend at CGA…. we keep in touch and see each other from time to time. After we graduated I went to Cape May, N.J. and he went to Kodiak, Alaska. We didn't see each other for a year or two, but we'd talk and after that year or two, when we met back up, it was like nothing had changed (it's still like that).

I liked the Coast Guard. I think it's a good organization with a good mission. I like what I do now better, but I'd never change my experience in the Coast Guard (maybe I'd do a little better the second time around). The military helps you grow, become a better, more complete person as you learn from failure in high pressure situations. The Coast Guard Academy contributed to that learning, and I think those ups and downs have made me a more successful person now, five years removed from the Coast Guard and nearly 10 years removed from the Coast Guard Academy.
 
LineInTheSand said:
We make CGA sound scarier than it is. I'll say it's very unpleasant the first year. I don't think I made it any easier. I had some trouble adjusting, didn't make many friends and had issues in the gym and in the classroom (and I guess in Chase Hall…. so pretty much I had issues everywhere). When I got to 3/c year I moved companies (I'm not sure how they do it now, but when I was a cadet you were in one company 4/c year and then a different company for your remaining three years…. we also only had Xray, Yankee and Zulu companies during Swab Summer). Well, 3/c year was a nice change. I made friends with company mates, could finally be friends with members of the class ahead of us, and had a much better life. I also started studying things I was interested in. The summer between 3/c and 2/c year was a defining summer when we got MUCH closer to our classmates and tried our hands at leadership. At this point we had real ownership in the Corps of Cadets. I find when you have ownership in something (and this is just as true for me now, out in the real world) you try harder and you take more pride in what you do. The next two years, especially firstie (senior) year, were great.

And just when things got good, it was time to leave.

I mentioned how there is a network of alumni. What I haven't touched on is how close you get to your classmates. You see them at their worst and they'll see you at your worst…. and when you see someone at their worst there are less games to play. It doesn't mean EVERYONE will be your friend. Just like anywhere else, I had classmates I liked and classmates I wasn't especially fond of. But whether I liked them or not, I can say my door is always open to any of them.

And I met my best friend at CGA…. we keep in touch and see each other from time to time. After we graduated I went to Cape May, N.J. and he went to Kodiak, Alaska. We didn't see each other for a year or two, but we'd talk and after that year or two, when we met back up, it was like nothing had changed (it's still like that).

I liked the Coast Guard. I think it's a good organization with a good mission. I like what I do now better, but I'd never change my experience in the Coast Guard (maybe I'd do a little better the second time around). The military helps you grow, become a better, more complete person as you learn from failure in high pressure situations. The Coast Guard Academy contributed to that learning, and I think those ups and downs have made me a more successful person now, five years removed from the Coast Guard and nearly 10 years removed from the Coast Guard Academy.
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I think it's easier to make ANY of the SAs sound scarier than they actually are. (LITS: even back in my day - late 80s/early 90s, we heard CGA was tougher than USNA too.) When I first met my DH and we were getting to know one another, naturally stories about my plebe year at USNA came up. I've alluded to the second who had it in for me, and let's just say I'm understating it. Jim Webb tells a story about how an upperclassman made him collect and present several tens (can't remember how many) of copies of Reef Points, the plebe "bible." At least when he was a plebe, and me as well, it was several demerits to be outside your room during the duty day without your copy of Reef Points on your person, so the classmates who provided these copies of Reef Points were putting themselves at risk for their classmate. Anyway, my second with a vendetta made me do the same thing. My DH would look at me when I'd tell scary stories like that one, bewildered, and say "That's the most bleeped-up thing I've ever heard." He's kinda right. But.

It's easy to hear stories like this and think that plebes and swabs feel like prey animals all them time, but that's not the case at all. The obligations are many and can be crushing, but then there are the (rare) evenings when you and 3 of your best buddies sit in your room laughing about the silliest goofiest stuff. The academics can be merciless, but the instructors are top notch. The Saturday morning training can be a complete haze (as in hazing) but there you are, Saturday afternoon, at your sponsors' house with 5 other plebes, napping and hanging out and talking about life in the Navy with your sponsor parents. Spirit weeks were a gas. I'd tell stories about those events and my DH would be envious.

There is no doubt that plebe/swab duties suck pond water. But after plebe/swab summer, it's not 24-7 suckage. There are breaks in the action. And, you can see yourself becoming someone better, someone more than you thought you were. And you're there with other people who are up to the same things.

I hated plebe summer and I was no fan of plebe year, and I separated, but I would do it again too. That year is one of the top three in my almost-44 years for making me who I am. Probably most of us have had experiences in life when, in the middle of it, you handle what you need to handle. Later, you look back and think, wow, I did that?? It's like that.
 
TampaDad said:
His high school is one of the rare public schools that is incredibly rigorous. Produces lots of National Merit Scholars. The teachers give very little slack. Always ranked as one of the top public high schools in the nation. I think he would really do well at the academy (busy work homework has always been his weak point).
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As a parent, it has been a horrible experience for me. Unlike you, the scholarship money really comes in handy. Today was a particularly heartbreaking day. He met with his academic advisor and or course he is on academic probation. Which means he can't attend his Master Chief of the Coast Guard father's retirement. He told his dad via text. His dad said "are you O.K.?" He said "not really." His dad said "do you want to talk." He said "I can't right now." (Maybe he was afraid he would cry or something?!) I had cancer in 2010. When life hurts you it hurts you, but when it hurts your child the knife cuts very deep. Also as a mom I start deep worrying and my imagination starts to run wild....
 
P.S. He and his dad are very close....so I am sure he feels like he is letting him down. So there's that also.
 
As hard as it is to hear Academic Probation is for his own good. It puts the safety mechanism in place to insure he gets the attention he needs.

Very sad that he would miss his father's retirement ceremony but who knows what he may have missed anyhow even if not on academic probation. I'm sure your husband wants what's best for him and isn't let down at all.
 
TampaDad said:
Okay, I've written off the idea of AFROTC to CG. :). That was just based on one of the universities he is looking at as part of his contingency plan. But CSPI is probably his Plan B at this point. CGA is still his clear Number 1.
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No one warned me. You've been warned. Hopefully, you and yours will have a different experience. The Chemistry and Calculus are hard as crap.
 
grevar said:
As hard as it is to hear Academic Probation is for his own good. It puts the safety mechanism in place to insure he gets the attention he needs.

Very sad that he would miss his father's retirement ceremony but who knows what he may have missed anyhow even if not on academic probation. I'm sure your husband wants what's best for him and isn't let down at all.
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I am just worried that he will get deeply depressed or something. I am 10 hours away. How will I know?!!
 
Wonderfulmom said:
I am just worried that he will get deeply depressed or something. I am 10 hours away. How will I know?!!
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Um, you don't need to immediately know….he's going to be an adult.

If he's deeply depressed, there are care providers (and its free).
 
Personally, the law may say they are adults, 18 is just a number, they all mature at different rates. I don't think I was fully mature until around 25.
 
It's because they're babied. 100 years ago 18 year olds were more involved than the 25 year olds of today.

I'm digusted that a 25 year old can run for Congress AND be on his/her parents' insurance.
 
Wonderfulmom said:
I am just worried that he will get deeply depressed or something. I am 10 hours away. How will I know?!!
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Surely there must be a mechanism in place to deal with these types of situations. There is no way your son is the first to encounter these issues.

As for the warnings, believe me, we are heeding them all. DS will have had chemistry and college calculus before attending so hopefully it will give him at least a small foundation to work from. He is not at the top of his class, so getting a poor grade will not rock his world like some folks who have never gotten a B, ever. Although he has friends like that. One in particular got her first B+ (ever) as a quarter grade this year. She lost her mind. Completely inconsolable for days. My son's take on the whole thing was "No big deal. Figure out what you did wrong, learn from it, and move on." Somehow that helped her more than her parents trying to convince her that she could still get into Harvard/Yale/Brown or whatever Ivy Legaue school she plans on attending.
 
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