National guard and ROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ZAROTCZ33, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a person who likes to be prepared for the worst or best case scenario. The trend in the past years is seemingly that Army ROTC scholarships are getting much harder to get. This having to do with factors involving the economy and downsizing of the military. I have a few questions pertaining to the National Guard as an option. If you are in the National Guard as an out of state student in college is tuition waived to in state tuition typically? What period of time in the National Guard while participating in Army ROTC at a college are you deployable status? In certain states based off my research they pay for 100 percent tuition is that only for part of college or all 4 years? My last question is looking far out in the future after college. If you’re doing SMP is switching to active duty once you are commissioned extremely difficult? Any answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know about the 100% free tuition for in state schools because I don't believe my state has that. However if you sign a national guard contract or take any national guard money for school you WILL be going NG.

    While getting a GFRD money can be easier they aren't naive and wont let you take the money then run off to AD. I've seen alot of people try this loophole
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,725
    Likes Received:
    119
    Aglahad is 100% correct in regard to the National Guard.

    If you do just straight SMP and do not take the GRFD Scholarship you are eligible to compete for Active Duty.
     
  4. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you both that helps. Just to clarify if I have any interest in active duty eventually national guard would not be a good starting point then? Also if I decide to leave my homestate and join the National Guard in Louisiana or Kentucky which are where both my top schools are located. Would I be given the in state tuition rate?
     
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,056
    Likes Received:
    135
    I don't think that's what they said. If I understand how things work you can do SMP, get some assistance, and still go active duty. If you take the GFRD assistance you ARE locked into the National Guard. I'm sure someone will clarify if I'm wrong.

    In any case a little more homework on your part just to increase your understanding of these programs might be in order. Try these:

    http://www.nationalguard.com/benefits/enlistment-options/simultaneous-membership-program

    http://www.nationalguard.com/life/education-benefits/state-education-programs

    http://www.nationalguard.com/benefits/money-for-college/guard-scholarships
     
  6. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you i'll be sure to check those websites out.
     
  7. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    39
    ZA...you seem to be a little confused. First off the national guard is state specific, so each state will probably have a different relationship with the schools in their state, so the only way you will know if you will be treated as in state, or you will get full tuition needs to be answered by the specific school you are looking at.
    Until you are MOS qualified you are not deployable. As soon as you are contracted, no earlier than sophomore year, you are not deployable. If you are in college and on track to contract in ROTC there should be no way you would be deployed. I have a Memorandum somewhere that states college students in the Guard/Reserve who are enrolled in ROTC aren't deployable. Not sure if it is still in effect, but I would whip it out in a heartbeat if one of my cadets came down on orders to deploy.
    I'm not understanding your question about 100% tuition and 4 years. If you are on scholarship it's full tuition. If you are just using TA you are probably getting the average cost of a state school. Finally, it isn't an issue of switching to active duty if you are SMP. If you are non scholarship when you access you can choose to request active duty, and your SMP status has no impact on whether you get AD or not. The only thing that has effect regarding your chances of getting AD is your OML score.
    Hope that helps.
     
  8. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is very helpful. In my state I was told when I met with an army reserve recruiter that if I join the army reserves I am deployable until I contract with an ROTC program. I don't know how much that would vary with the National Guard. I have no problem deploying it would just be frustrating if it interrupted my college courses. Once you are MOS qualified I believe you get full tuition payed for at flagship universities in my state. I have heard this is common in a few other states programs as well. I'm sure most states are not paying full tuition. I have gotten into contact with the path to honor for the National Guard hopefully they can give me some nit gritty details. Thank you everyone for all your help.
     
  9. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    70
    Just as a little tip. If you start talking to a NG recruiter, make sure you start conversing with a ROTC ROO at a local university. It doesn't have to be the one you want to go to, but an NG recruiters ultimate goal is to get you to enlist. Whether you end up SMP or not is not their problem. A ROO is looking to get you into ROTC and can give you information that you may not get from a regular NG recruiter. However, the guard does also have enlisted recruiters that are there to recruit officers. If you can get in contact with one of them, they can also help you.
     
  10. gojack

    gojack ....

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^^^What he said:thumb:

    Also remember you can join any State NG, not just your home state.
    A NG unit near your university may be your best choice, many university ROTC programs are set up with the local NG unit for dealing with SMP students, in a semi-official co-op program - so weekend FTX's can count as a weekend NG drill.

    This avoids conflicts between your two units training schedules and reduces required travel...which if your unit is far from your college can be problematic.

    So I strongly suggest you go through your University AROTC ROO to decide on which NG Unit.
     
  11. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not quite. If you take money from the State Guard then you will also be committed to the NG in that State. If you take Federal money from NG then you have the option of choosing between NG and Reserves. My daughter took the Federal tuition assistance while contracted in the NG and still went Reserves.
    If you take a GFRD scholarship you won't go AD.



    Instate tuition is governed by the laws of each state. You need to talk to the bursar's office and read the law. In Virginia, if you are in the NG you qualify as a resident and instate tuition.
     
  12. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    This has been very helpful. I'm a little confused with a few factors. If I enlist in the National Guard would I complete basic one summer then be able to go to college for a year. Then the following summer complete AIT. I'm a senior in high school so I’m not sure if that makes a difference. If I am not awarded an ROTC scholarship, but enlist in the National Guard am I not considered in SMP my freshman year of college. This is Important because I rather take out loans and participate as a college programmer in ROTC then be deployed while I’m working towards a degree. I respect all those who have taken this risk and have been deployed. My priority is to complete college and then I’ll be more than willing to be deployed. I'm sorry my questions may seem too simplistic. I'm very confused with the SMP program in general. Any input is greatly appreciated.
     
  13. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    70
    Sounds like if youre serious you need to meet with the local ROTC units Recruiting Operations Officer. They can give you the best information. I can tell you some things as well as many other posters, but we would overload and confuse the hell out of you in a forum format. For example, you don't even have to complete basic or AIT to SMP. However, in order to qualify for the GI Bill and Kicker you must complete them. I've probably already lost you. If there isn't a ROTC program near you, you're in luck. Clarksonarmy and Marist College ROTC are two posters here who happen to be ROO's. They are the best and most official info you can get on this site.
     
  14. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,056
    Likes Received:
    135
    Disclaimer: I am no AROTC SMP expert.

    Edit: Cross=posted with Bull who has the same bottom line suggestion.

    You are correct that you cannot be in SMP while in your freshman and sophomore years in college (at least according to most things I have read). You must be in the Army ROTC Advanced Course (final 2 years of college) to participate in SMP (at least in some states). (This may vary by state - eg. NC apparently only requires that you be contracted, which a freshman on ROTC scholarship will be). I have no idea what this might mean in terms of deployment during your freshman and sophomore years, but clearly once you are in SMP you are not deployable.

    According to my reading on other threads You can do Basic one summer and AIT the following summer. I've read other stuff online (which may also vary by state) that says BCT and AIT are optional, but would enhance your SMP benefits.

    I would strongly suggest that you speak with the ROTC cadre at each college you are considering. You won't be the first person who has asked these questions and I'm sure they are up to speed on the process for their state and would also know which units are near the school (as someone else also suggested). I'll bet they'll even put you in touch with an SMP Cadet if you were to ask.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  15. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    The purpose of my post was to point out to the OP that taking any NG/reserves money will land him in a spot that is NOT AD. The semantics of NG vs reserves didn't come across my mind so I just lumped both together as AD is the posters goal.

    In addition NG vs reserves has only slight differences. Obviously NG is under state power (vs reserve federal power) except in certain situations, has sometimes slower promotion rates and more combat arms units.
     
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    5
    Where did you get the idea that National Guard soldiers attending college and participating in ROTC would get deployed overseas? Clearly it is a possibility, but it seems really, really, remote. When is the last time this actually happened? What are the odds -- 2%?, 5%, 0.5%?, 0.1%

    This reminds me of another extremely rare scenario: all Officers commissioned through USMA have an 8 year Mandatory Service Obligation, which is divided into a 5 year Active Duty Service Obligation, PLUS 3 years if Individual Ready Reserve (IRR). AROTC scholarship commissioned Officers are 4+4. IRR is not the same as "Army Reserves". IRR does not drill, receives no pay, and does not received benefits such as medical care. However, it IS possible for an officer who separates AD after 4 or 5 years, and is in IRR status, to be ordered back into Active Duty status. Yet nobody talks about that risk, or worries about it, b/c to my knowldege, it hasn't happened in decades. It would only happen if all the Ready Reserves were already called into Active Duty by Presidential Callup Authority ... when is that going to happen? And if our country is that deep in guano, the IRR soldiers would probably WANT to be part of the solution rather than watch from the sidelines.

    So, while many things in life and the Army are possible, if you analyze a situation (in your case, being deployed to National Guard Active Duty while a student in college) and reach the conclusion that the possiblity is under 1%, do you really need to worry about it or make critical decisions around that remote possibility?

    Incidentally, it is ALSO possible for ROTC contracted cadets at college to be called into Active Duty, and for cadets at the US Military Academy to be called into active duty. So many things are possible, but you can't worry or plan for things that are probably less than 1/100 chance of happening.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  17. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    5
    In case anyone is wanting to know the details of when ROTC cadets may be called into Active Duty, this is from AR 145, Section III (page 11 on the screen). http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r145_1.pdf It refers to a "Full Mobilization" scenario, and I'm not exactly sure what this means...

    Section III
    Mobilization
    1–15. Senior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps cadets during mobilization
    c. Nonmilitary colleges and institutions. On full mobilization, ROTC programs will be suspended. The cadre will be available for reassignment with in TRADOC. Personnel excess to TRADOC requirements will be reported to PERSCOM for reassignment.
    (1) If M-Day occurs during the summer, ROTC cadets who have completed the ROTC advanced camp will be recalled to their school by the PMS and commissioned immediately after receiving instructions from HQDA. If M-Day occurs during the school year, cadets who have completed ROTC advanced camp will be commissioned as soon as
    possible.
    (2) Reserve Officers’ Training Corps cadets under contract (any cadet who has signed an ROTC contract) who have not completed the advanced camp will, immediately after receiving instructions from HQDA, be called to the Officer Candidate School (OCS). Mobilization policies and procedures for the OCS are contained in AR 351–5. Those contract students who have completed basic camp or MS II training will enter directly into the OCS with appropriate follow-on OBC. All other contact students will be called to active duty immediately as enlisted reservists to attend training. If they complete basic training and demonstrate officer potential, they may be offered the OCS option.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  18. ZAROTCZ33

    ZAROTCZ33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow thats alot to digest. Thank you all for the information you have provided. I see that very limited possibility you mention. Theirs alot of different variables that go into the national guard. Are you not actively drilling unless you are MOS qualified and completed AIT?
     
  19. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    44
    Actually it has happened quite frequently in the past 10 years-
    Approximately 80 VMI cadets have been deployed while in school when the Nat Guard or USAR or USMCR units they were assigned to were deployed ( One cadet I know of had 2 deployments delaying his grad by 4 years). Until you are on contract with ROTC this is a possibility- and if you are not a scholarship winner you won't be on contract till start of 2d Class (Jr)year. The chances of this have of course gone down significantly with the end of OIF and reduced call ups for OEF.
     
  20. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,725
    Likes Received:
    119
    I believe that SMP cadets are eligible to contract with ROTC the beginning of their Sophomore year as long a they have passed the APFT and the battalion has contract slots available. Of course that does leave the freshman year providing they have gone to BCT/AIT and are MOS qualified.
     

Share This Page