Naval Officer (USNA 2008) Seeks Discharge As Conscientious Objector

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Luigi59, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Naval Officer Seeks Discharge As Conscientious Objector

    Declined By Navy, He Files Lawsuit

    By MARK SPENCER
    Hartford Courant
    November 3, 2010

    HARTFORD —Michael Izbicki grew up near Camp Pendleton Marine Base in California in a patriotic family with a tradition of military service.

    In high school he was a good student and attended an Evangelical church, where he was born again. He believed a good Christian could fight in a good war.

    Turning down scholarships at other universities, he accepted an offer from the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, Md. He graduated in 2008 with the rank of ensign, beginning what he hoped would be an honorable career of service.

    Now he wants out.

    Izbicki, 24 and based at the Naval Submarine School in Groton, filed a lawsuit in federal court in Hartford on Wednesday asking for an honorable discharge as a conscientious objector, a request the Navy has turned down twice in the past year.

    According to the lawsuit, the Navy's investigations of the legitimacy of Izbicki's beliefs were deeply flawed and, in one case, "showed extreme religious bias" against his Christian beliefs, especially when it came to his increasing interest in Quakerism.

    "My Christian convictions preclude the use of violence; I cannot take someone else's life, nor can I aid others in doing so," Izbicki wrote in his application. "Therefore, I cannot participate in war in any form."

    Messages left at the Naval Submarine School seeking comment were not returned.

    (Read the rest of the article HERE)
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If I read this correctly, he is stating because of his increasing interest in Quakerism.

    To me that means he has yet to convert to Quaker, just that he is interested in becoming a Quaker. So how does he even have a logical case?

    I recall a couple of yrs ago a 60 Minute segment on an officer who wanted to get out because he was a Quaker, (he had converted) and he had stated everyone in his life was investigated, but yet, the military still said NO at first. This was a guy who had been active in the Quaker community, yet this officer wants out because he is interested in Quakerism?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  3. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    The story of Alvin York comes to mind.
     
  4. dadkone

    dadkone Member

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    Early release from military obligation

    President Jimmy Carter graduated from USNA with a degree in nuclear engineering. He obtained an early release from his military assignment on a nuclear submarine in order to return to Plains, GA., to work on his father's peanut farm. It's subjective, but I see an analogy.
     
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    dad, you struck out on this one. USNA did not have a nuclear engineering degree at that time. All midshipmen took the same courses. He served his obligatory commitment. He resigned his commission after six years because his father had died and he felt he was needed to work the farm. Therefore, it was no longer his father's farm, but the family farm. And strike four, what the heck does this have to do with the subject at hand?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  6. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    What's the analogy you were seeing? That one day this guy, too, can become a really crappy President?
     
  7. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

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    I don't. At all.

    Good one, scoutpilot!
     
  8. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Scoutpilot:

    :thumb:
     
  9. dadkone

    dadkone Member

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    Apology to the forum

    Mongol, Scout Pilot, et al, are correct. I was in error as to information concerning Jimmy Carter. Albeit, had I been correct as to the facts, I was yet irrational in suggesting a parallel to the question at hand. I offer no excuses and sincerely apologize to the forum and all concerned.
     
  10. urbonman6

    urbonman6 Member

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    off topic

    I find it ironic that York did not want to fight, however after he was drafted, I believe he was awarded the Medal of Honor.
     
  11. futureAFA

    futureAFA Member

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    I don’t know what happened with York, but to me that sounds pretty honorable. Not wanting to fight, but once he’s in he makes the best of it. To me it sounds like that has a pretty good message, unlike trying to be honorably discharged because of an interest in a religion.
     
  12. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Update:

    Reversing Itself, Navy Grants Ensign Conscientious Objector Status

    By MARK SPENCER
    The Hartford Courant
    11:12 a.m. EST, February 22, 2011

    Reversing two earlier denials, the U.S Navy has granted conscientious objector status to Michael Izbicki, a Naval Academy graduate (Class of 2008) most recently stationed at the Naval Submarine School in Groton.

    Izbicki, 24, filed a lawsuit in federal court in Hartford in November, asking for an honorable discharge as a conscientious objector, contending that the Navy's hearing on his two requests were deeply flawed with legal, factual and procedural errors.

    Deborah H. Karpatkin, a New York City attorney who represented Izbicki along with the American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut, said the Navy offered no explanation of why it overruled its early decisions. A Navy spokesperson in Washington D.C. said she would respond to questions about the case later in the day.

    "The Navy has finally looked properly at the entire record in this case and now correctly recognized that Michael Izbicki is a sincere conscientious objector based on his religious beliefs against participation in war in any form," Karpatkin said.

    The reversal, announced Tuesday, means Izbicki has been given an honorable discharge.

    http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-izbicki-objector-0223-20110222,0,5322160.story
     
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Hopefully the Navy will also give Mr. Izbicki an invoice for about $400,000.00 for his taxpayer supported USNA education.
     
  14. MakeItHappen

    MakeItHappen Member

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    "A condition of his discharge is that Izbicki must reimburse the Navy for his education, something he has promised to do all along. He said he has yet to be told how much that will be."
     
  15. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I don't think he's going to like that bill.
     
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Not just the 4 years in Annapolis.

    Before his revelation/conversion he also picked up a Masters at Johns Hopkins on the Navy's dime as well.

     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Imagine that loan repayment bill...it would have to be between USNA and his Masters @ 500K....more than most homes cost.

    How do you get a loan for that amount?
     
  18. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I don't believe that they are going to bill him anywhere near that- Despite the inflated numbers that people throw around when showing the big check at the HS graduation with a "value" of the SA appointment (which is arrived at by dividing the total appropriation to support the entire establishment by the number of students) I think that they set an actual cost to be reimbursed/ student around $50k per year. Still a lot of change but not anywhere near $1/2 million.
    My guess is that they will be billing him for his final two years at USNA (he didn't have an obligation at all until he competed his second year which IMHO is kind of a crock as ROTC scholarships WHIC COST the government significantly less incur their obligation after only 1 year) plus the cost of a masters at Johns Hopkins- so he's probably on the hook for around $150k.
     
  19. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    This article (http://www.denverpost.com/colorado/ci_17096093) places the value of USNA education at $379,000. I'm not sure why USMA is about half that amount, though.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Even 150K on the hook is hard to get for a personal loan at that age. What is he 26?

    I do wonder how he will get the money. Let's also say, that they deduct re-payment time for AD commitment and get it to 75K. Still hard in these economic times to get a loan like that.

    Worse yet, the repayment is not like a mtg of 30 yrs, maybe 10 yrs at best. Add interest and he could be looking at 1-2K a month for 10 yrs. That is alot of money for anyone just starting their career.
     

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