Navy QB resigns prior to graduation

I totally understand and agree. However; I really doubt he's going to have to pay back any significant amount. Maybe we'll see in the future how this turns out. Getting him to pay $1000 a month for the next 10-15 years? I don't think it's going to happen.
 
For what it's worth there, our son has a friend who was a classmate at USAFA. He was booted during second semester of Firstie year for an alcohol offense. There was no option given for him to enlist. He is currently enrolled at a Big Ten university to finish his degree. He has a payment plan for his educational cost recoupment from USAFA that runs about $800/mo. and the total amount owed was $118K. His parents (who I know through the 2011 parents group) are making the payment for him until he graduates, finds a job, and can take over.

Stealth_81
 
Mike,

I am just curious of why you think he won't have to repay.

I get anecdotal, but right now we have a poster with a DS in NROTC that has to pay back 150K. We have another poster that has a friend paying 800 a month.

Why do you believe this mid is an exception?

I just need to understand why you doubt it when posters here are saying it is happening.

Is it because he was the QB?

FWIW, DS's friend in AFROTC 2 yrs ago after completing SFT decided the AF wasn't for him. In 2010, he left, and the AF came after him for 33K since he was a scholarship recipient.

It is happening. I know an AFA grad who was informed if he didn't go UPT after his ED, he would be on the hook financially to the AF.

This is the new military.
 
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Pima said:
Mike,

I am just curious of why you think he won't have to repay.

I get anecdotal, but right now we have a poster with a DS in NROTC that has to pay back 150K. We have another poster that has a friend paying 800 a month.

Why do you believe this mid is an exception?

I just need to understand why you doubt it when posters here are saying it is happening.

Is it because he was the QB?

FWIW, DS's friend in AFROTC 2 yrs ago after completing SFT decided the AF wasn't for him. In 2010, he left, and the AF came after him for 33K since he was a scholarship recipient.

It is happening. I know an AFA grad who was informed if he didn't go UPT after his ED, he would be on the hook financially to the AF.

This is the new military.
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Mainly because he's being ousted for an honor's violation. I already mentioned that if it was for a legal, UCMJ, or similar reason; e.g. alcohol, drugs, assault, or any other incident that was chargeable, I could see it. But being booted out for an honor's violation is too subjective. In other words, it's something that I believe could be fought/argued.

Could I be wrong and he WILL have to pay back part of his education? Sure. I conceded that earlier. I just don't see an honor's violation as something that can be held up to. Especially if it's true that that this is his 3rd. (Totally no proof of). He could have been let go earlier; possibly in the first 2 years if that's when the other(s) honor's violation happened.

We are also assuming he would fight such a thing. The thing that makes this a little different is that the academy isn't booting him out. He is voluntarily resigning. I think in the other cases mentioning paying back, the military decided to let those people go. We don't know what the honor's violation was. Or, what the previous 2 were (Assuming this is his 3rd). I've always stood the ground of skepticism on issues where "We" don't have all the facts. Whether it's threads about drugs, sexual harassment, etc... There's always too much speculation on the forums when facts are not known.

The only supposed facts we know is that he is "voluntarily" leaving and that it's based on a honor's violation. And other than an internal code, an honor's violation isn't something usually criminal or punishable other than no longer being allowed in school. My opinion has nothing to do with him being a Quarterback. If indeed this is his 3rd honor's violation, ad only now are they looking at dismissing him, that might have something to do with him being a quarterback. But not what we're talking about.
 
Getting his degree

My question is will he get his degree? I mean he is all but out of school,will he received his degree and a dishonorable discharge? I believe their are a lot of questions that need answers and we may never know the answer too. It is just a shame to waste such an amazing gift. Plus lets not forget he received his flight school slot.
 
He won't get his degree from USNA.... many of his credits will likely transfer.
 
Cristcorp said:
But being booted out for an honor's violation is too subjective. In other words, it's something that I believe could be fought/argued.
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Tell that to Gojira where her DS was 8 lbs overweight. Again hired an attorney and the response was:

Secretary of the Navy was asking for full recoupment of anyone who was facing disenrollment.


You have a point. He resigned his commission. AKA corp world, resign or be fired.

He may not pay 1 penny. I just can't bite off on the too subjective issue when an NROTC 12 mid is now going to pay 150K back for 8 lbs.

You were ADAF, do you think 8 lbs as a man is a reason?
 
I had a classmate in my squadron booted for honor firstie year....she is paying back the government for that.

My friends I referenced are in a position that that deny the debt was even viable. He was booted while in UPT and probably had the worst set of bosses refusing to work and help him (great guy now training to be a Sheriff, I was his best man at his wedding). I won't explain the specific circumstances, but they still (2 years later) refuse to pay the debt and fight it. Since we don't have debtors prisons in this country, the debt collector had one option: 15% wage garnishment. They anticipate at some point the debt collector will offer a sweet deal because at that garnishment rate, they won't be able to get the full amount of the loan in their lifetime!!

A voluntary separation isn't going to be given any more leniency than someone getting booted. They really don't operate that way.
 
Christcorp said:
I've always stood the ground of skepticism on issues where "We" don't have all the facts. Whether it's threads about drugs, sexual harassment, etc... There's always too much speculation on the forums when facts are not known.
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:thumb:
 
And don't be too sure that he'll be free and clear. The government has up to 7 years to decide if they want to recoup a debt (that was the guidance I received on an argument I am having with personal property, who says my storage shipment is now weighing more than when it when in to storage).

This post was from last year.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=20892&highlight=bill

One other note. Since he is voluntarily resigning in lieu of being separated for an honor offense, there may be nothing officially that is adverse against him. So that could mean 4 years in the fleet as an enlisted. It happened to a good friend of mine who left the academy in their senior year. But that was back in the late 1980's, and it was a different world then.
 
Also; they could require him to serve time as enlisted instead of paying back money.
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My understanding from USNA is the same as one of the above poster's. The USN/USMC no longer requires those booted for honor to serve as enlisted. The reason is that it did a disservice to our enlisted force to send them known "dishonorable" people (i.e. those separated for an honor offense).
 
So true. But as has been pointed out, and again by navy1981, he isn't being booted out if they accept his resignation. Again, we don't have all the facts.
 
Christcorp said:
So true. But as has been pointed out, and again by navy1981, he isn't being booted out if they accept his resignation. Again, we don't have all the facts.
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Although it (quit or boot) may play a part in whether or not he is classified as "eligible" for further military service, I believe it's irrelevant to the payback discussion. He would still be on the hook for the money.

And taking it out of an enlisted salary would take a long time.

Even garnishing $500 per month would take over 20 years.
 
In my friend's case, the only requirement was to do the enlisted time. No other bills or debt. And because my friend resigned instead of being dismissed from the Academy, the 3 and half years of Academy were considered honorable service and were counted towards an enlisted Good Conduct Medal; which at that time required 4 years of honorable service to earn.

So, 3 and half years at the Academy, plus another 3 years of enlisted time (starting at paygrade of E-3), my friend received a Good Conduct Medal, a DD-214 with an Honorable Discharge and zero debt.
 
Navy1981 said:
In my friend's case, the only requirement was to do the enlisted time. No other bills or debt.
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Yes, you are 100% right, when they send you to serve in the fleet as enlisted, that is your payback, you are correct, my mistake. (but I don't think they do that anymore)

I mistakenly carried forth my previous thought about his discharge status and combined it with my belief about the debt not being forgiven based on resignation or expulsion.

:thumb:
 
seems like the link to the story has been blocked, and when Googling it everything comes up error, or not available.

who pulled the plug on the story?
 
It is my understanding that if a cadet gets booted firstie year that they are not allowed to keep their class ring and the nice 35K loan they got goes up to over 18% interest payback
 
We are currently in the process of appealing to the Navy Board of Corrections about son's disenrollment, after losing appeal to have him reinstated into NROTC or allowed to enlist. There were some inaccuracies in the files - I have no idea if this will help him, or not. Our lawyer said that it might be useful in reducing DS debt of $150K.

The sad fact is that he never really considered life outside of the military and this time since disenrollment has been a shock. He realizes now that there were clues that he was on a short list to be disenrolled, but hindsight is 20/20, right?

I have no idea what the honor violations were for that QB at Naval Academy. I am sure that they were significant, yet I also know from my son's case that standards can be applied differently for different people. He saw it, regularly. This young man will likely see a very large bill and will probably have to do what we have done, which is hire counsel and hope they can help improve the situation. This kid's career in the Navy is over.

From what we understand and it has been said before, DFAS may not notify son for months, or years - we heard 2-3 years before, but someone else posted up to 7 years. Yikes. It has left him in a state of limbo. Trying very hard to save up as much money as possible and has moved home to save on expenses. He dreads getting the mail, worrying when DFAS finally contacts him. Payment plans that he has heard of range from 30 days, to 3 -10 years. Don't forget, there is interest added - so the debt is well beyond the original amount, when all is said and done.

Not dischargeable in bankruptcy, not considered student loan debt, so it's not deductible in any way, either.

One point for those trying to get a job after this debt is on their record - some employers might think of it as a "bad risk", leading to trouble with securing employment...especially in classified jobs for defense contractors, for example.

Bottom line - don't fall out of compliance. Be the best officer candidate you can be, whether in ROTC or the service academies. For those parents and students who are considering either - realize that there is a cost if disenrolled from program. We, as parents, never saw the contract or knew the reprecussions of disenrollment. Son didn't send contract to us or probably even read completely; as most young adults don't have experience reading contracts, he probably missed that point. It's full sticker price of tuition, not what you might have paid as a traditional college student using financial aid such as institutional or state grants, low interest loans, etc. Had we been aware, we might have considered having him go to an in-state public university, instead of a private, due to the staggering different price for list tuition.

My goal is not to dissuade you from pursuing this dream - just be aware of the big picture. We probably would have asked many, many more questions at the beginning, but being handed one of those big checks was such an honor for a 17 year old kid.
 
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