No More Public AirShows

aseanag,

You stated it with my kid. IF I WERE A PARENT...ring a bell?

OBTW, we tease our friends in the ADAF world about their ring knockers! It is not an insult, it is a compliment! Unlike your post if I were a parent I would get it.

You are now striking out at all of us. Nobody is on your side. Would it not be smarter to go back to the parent's group and say: "Look, it just isn't going to fly..no pun intended."

Instead, you attack saying give me options. There are no options is their answer. Your response is I don't want to hear that, I want to hear give me answers.

FWIW,

If you are not the only parent that feels this way, have them post here...it is free, all it takes is time to sign up. If they can't spend 20 minutes out of their day to join and post 1 post in support of your position, against the majority here, it tells us and you everything...they don't care enough at the end of the day to fight this battle you have entrenched yourself in regarding flybys.

That is the true test...will they support you when it is free?
 
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aseanag said:
The great thing about America is everyone has an opinion. I talk with cadets/mids often. I am not running an opinion poll. Talk about a stretch. There is a disappointment about the stand down of the Thunderbirds. I am only looking for information or a way to provide a flyover for 2013 graduation ceremony. Again assistance on how to make it possible would be of greatly appreciated. I can take the insults. Won't deter me one bit.
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure your getting what has been said.

You want options, well, there aren't any. If the AF grounds the T-Birds then there grounded, private money is not going to get them in the Air.

The AFA is not going to allow private aircraft to do a fly over, even if they did, what would that have to do with tradition.

Graduation is in about 2 1/2 months, there is not time to get any other options even if the AFA would allow it.

Your not getting the advice or options from people on this board because there aren't any to give.

I've read this thread, not sure where you have been insulted, though you have placed a few barbs yourself. If anything people are just surprised why this is such a huge concern given what the military is now faced with.

As I said before, these cadets don't deserve anything, they earn everything they get, and sometimes get only what's available. What they do deserve is the training they receive once they graduate, are no longer cadets, and enter Active Duty.
 
Aseanag,

I think you have been provided with a few options, and none of them seem to be viable.

As a fellow USAFA parent I think you are getting way off base in your posts. Many good posters here have explained to you why the flyover isn't possible. It's time to listen and drop the subject.

Perhaps you could do something else constructive for the Class of 2013 rather than posting 50 times in one thread when you have had your answer since the second page.

Please take my advice here, or it will be necessary to close the thread.

Stealth_81
 
Pima said:
aseanag,

You stated it with my kid. IF I WERE A PARENT...ring a bell?

OBTW, we tease our friends in the ADAF world about their ring knockers! It is not an insult, it is a compliment! Unlike your post if I were a parent I would get it.

You are now striking out at all of us. Nobody is on your side. Would it not be smarter to go back to the parent's group and say: "Look, it just isn't going to fly..no pun intended."

Instead, you attack saying give me options. There are no options is their answer. Your response is I don't want to hear that, I want to hear give me answers.

FWIW,

If you are not the only parent that feels this way, have them post here...it is free, all it takes is time to sign up. If they can't spend 20 minutes out of their day to join and post 1 post in support of your position, against the majority here, it tells us and you everything...they don't care enough at the end of the day to fight this battle you have entrenched yourself in regarding flybys.

That is the true test...will they support you when it is free?
Click to expand...

Please let me know the number where I said ring knocker. I have tried to get parents to post on this site but they won't. I have gotten a few emails in support of my position.
I will say that there is a unique experience when our young adults attend an academy versus a civil university. I have done both.

I have only responded to the attacks I have received and will continue to do so.
 
I'm catching myself up right now, but at least you have my view reasonably stated.

Thank you.

If need be, start with the flyovers, but then let's get going on some actual spending discipline.

LineInTheSand said:
Here's how it's splitting in this forum....


Current AFA cadets - "We'd love to have a Thunderbird flyover but we understand the issues the entire federal government is facing."

AF veterans - "Fly overs are tradition and it's nice for the cadets, but we understand what the federal is facing."

Other service veterans - "Get over it. Your school if 50 years old and your budget is inflated."

Other service cadets/midshipmen - "Get over it."

AFA parents - "Our kids need this. We need this. This is our AFA. We will make this happen, laws, policy and current economic situation be damned."



Do we have anything to add to this? Seems like it's all been said.
Click to expand...
 
aseanag said:
I have only responded to the attacks I have received and will continue to do so.
Click to expand...

There comes a point where we all must stop feeding the troll. If aseanag wishes to continue on with the delusion that they or anyone else will be able to change the opinion of the United States Air Force to ground the Thunderbirds then we should let her continue on.

Her delusion is obviously better to her than the reality of the world in which we are living.
 
aseanag said:
Pima:
Parents group at USAFA assist in many endeavors at the Academy. Gifts are given for many different occassions. Ring Dance, Commiment Dinner, Exemplar dinner. Acceptance day, each year the Texas parents group cater a huge cookout for there cadets. Parents assisting in a flyover is not so over the top. Our parents group give gift to our cadet annually. There are all types of thing parents assist in at all the academies. You would know this if your DS or DD attended.

Like I said I was looking for options not insults.
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Is this the statement that you said I said that ring knockers are superior? Is this how you interpet this statement. Not meant that way at all.
 
USCGA13STN said:
There comes a point where we all must stop feeding the troll. If aseanag wishes to continue on with the delusion that they or anyone else will be able to change the opinion of the United States Air Force to ground the Thunderbirds then we should let her continue on.

Her delusion is obviously better to her than the reality of the world in which we are living.
Click to expand...

Not trying to change the decision to ground the Thunderbirds. Just looking for alternative.
Insult about being delusional or being a troll. Uncalled for.
 
1. Everyone understands the disappointment to the graduates and their family/friends/guests, IF, the thunderbirds are not able to perform for graduation.
2. Yes, there is a TRADITION of having a flyover/air show at the academy graduation. That tradition is NOT JUST ANY Flyover/air show. It's the THUNDERBIRDS. It is the camaraderie and esprit de corps associate with the thunderbirds. ANY OLD FLYOVER OR AIR SHOW WILL NOT DO. Sorry, but there is NO REPLACEMENT for this tradition.
3. I'm sure, tradition or not, this is NOT THE FIRST TIME that the thunderbirds didn't perform as scheduled. I'm sure there's been weather affecting, war, etc... that altered the schedule.
4. WHILE ALL Graduates would probably be disappointed; there is NOT PROOF or STUDIES to show how many; IF ANY; graduates are looking for an alternative flyover/air show. So far, aseanag is the only one looking for an alternative.

In other words, when I've spoken to 3 2013 C1C cadets; granted, that's not a large enough sampling; about how it's "POSSIBLE" that the thunderbirds MIGHT NOT be able to do their graduation show because of the sequester, they all basically said: "That sucks". Nothing about a replacement air show. Basically; they get it. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a flyover or air show. The thunderbirds REPRESENT the pride, power, integrity, team work, etc.... that these NEWLY COMMISSIONED OFFICERS are now joining the ranks of. Whether they be pilots, contract officers, comm officers, etc... It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a "Greater Thrust to Weight Ratio" of an object to defy gravity and stay in the air. In other words, the tradition can't be achieved with the snow birds, antique aircraft, private air show, etc....

Apparently, the cadets I have spoken with get it. Maybe more cadets GET IT. I would bet that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of cadets "GET IT". In my opinion; having seen a LOT of cadets AND PARENTS, go through the 4 year academy process, that it's usually the parents who don't get it or have higher levels of disappointment and such. The cadets/graduates UNDERSTAND the military. They understand military life. They understand the true MEANING of tradition.

I would say, that unless there was some accurate poll of C1C cadets, parents shouldn't assume that they understand what their son/daughter want. What they expect. What they are disappointed about. What they would like done about it; IF ANYTHING!!! I admit that my talking to 3 cadets don't amount to an accurate poll. I would assume that no one here as a poll of 500+ C1C cadets on the sequester; the thunderbirds; and what they want.
 
I've been following this for a while, and this squabbling is just sickening. Oh, the woes that Americans have. The 2013 grads got a free, first class education and the parents are having fits. Folks, just put this in perspective. You are not starving to death. You don't wonder whether someone is going to break into your adobe hut at night, steal everything, and kill your family. You have the freedom to pursue what ever you wish. You can get an education. You don't have to walk five miles every morning to draw up muddy, polluted, cholera infected water to survive.

Is it a bummer to lose? Of course. Is it worth posting 23+ pages of posts on a meaningless forum in cyberspace? No. GET OVER IT!!!! And that is directed to both sides. Mods, please close this thread.
 
I think it comes down to this...

Thunderbirds can't perform. Damn. Let's not add insult to injury. USAFA: DON'T TAKE MY FRIDGE!!!

LineInTheSand said:
Here's how it's splitting in this forum....


Current AFA cadets - "We'd love to have a Thunderbird flyover but we understand the issues the entire federal government is facing."

AF veterans - "Fly overs are tradition and it's nice for the cadets, but we understand what the federal is facing."

Other service veterans - "Get over it. Your school if 50 years old and your budget is inflated."

Other service cadets/midshipmen - "Get over it."

AFA parents - "Our kids need this. We need this. This is our AFA. We will make this happen, laws, policy and current economic situation be damned."



Do we have anything to add to this? Seems like it's all been said.
Click to expand...

Christcorp said:
1. Everyone understands the disappointment to the graduates and their family/friends/guests, IF, the thunderbirds are not able to perform for graduation.
2. Yes, there is a TRADITION of having a flyover/air show at the academy graduation. That tradition is NOT JUST ANY Flyover/air show. It's the THUNDERBIRDS. It is the camaraderie and esprit de corps associate with the thunderbirds. ANY OLD FLYOVER OR AIR SHOW WILL NOT DO. Sorry, but there is NO REPLACEMENT for this tradition.
3. I'm sure, tradition or not, this is NOT THE FIRST TIME that the thunderbirds didn't perform as scheduled. I'm sure there's been weather affecting, war, etc... that altered the schedule.
4. WHILE ALL Graduates would probably be disappointed; there is NOT PROOF or STUDIES to show how many; IF ANY; graduates are looking for an alternative flyover/air show. So far, aseanag is the only one looking for an alternative.

In other words, when I've spoken to 3 2013 C1C cadets; granted, that's not a large enough sampling; about how it's "POSSIBLE" that the thunderbirds MIGHT NOT be able to do their graduation show because of the sequester, they all basically said: "That sucks". Nothing about a replacement air show. Basically; they get it. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a flyover or air show. The thunderbirds REPRESENT the pride, power, integrity, team work, etc.... that these NEWLY COMMISSIONED OFFICERS are now joining the ranks of. Whether they be pilots, contract officers, comm officers, etc... It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a "Greater Thrust to Weight Ratio" of an object to defy gravity and stay in the air. In other words, the tradition can't be achieved with the snow birds, antique aircraft, private air show, etc....

Apparently, the cadets I have spoken with get it. Maybe more cadets GET IT. I would bet that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of cadets "GET IT". In my opinion; having seen a LOT of cadets AND PARENTS, go through the 4 year academy process, that it's usually the parents who don't get it or have higher levels of disappointment and such. The cadets/graduates UNDERSTAND the military. They understand military life. They understand the true MEANING of tradition.

I would say, that unless there was some accurate poll of C1C cadets, parents shouldn't assume that they understand what their son/daughter want. What they expect. What they are disappointed about. What they would like done about it; IF ANYTHING!!! I admit that my talking to 3 cadets don't amount to an accurate poll. I would assume that no one here as a poll of 500+ C1C cadets on the sequester; the thunderbirds; and what they want.
Click to expand...
 
I've changed my mind about the flyovers. I've had the windows open all day here in Surprise AZ.... I've had my fill of F-16's for the year. :)
 
FlyingFuzz:

Freedom of speech isn't so much, being able to say whatever you want. It's a person hearing it who doesn't want to hear it or totally disagrees with what's being said, and still respecting that person's right to say it.

Nothing personal, but I believe MORE in the 1st amendment and a person's right to speak, than I do "What YOU Want". Or, your request to the moderators to take away someone's right to speak. "Just because, you are sickened". In the course of rights and respect, why should I or anyone else respect YOUR REQUEST to moderator? Why should I RESPECT it more than aseanag's right to speak on this forum?

The truth is: I DON'T. While I disagree with aseanag's position on the subject, I respect this parent's right to express publicly, more than your right to try and SHUT DOWN that right.

FWIW: I will support ANY PERSON'S right to free speech. More so than many of the Politically Correct Hypocrites. Even if that person uses racial slurs against me. If they use derogatory names against me. I STILL don't want their speech shut down. It's EASY to respect freedom of speech when you agree with what's being said or know the person. If you truly believe in the constitution and our rights, then respect a person's speech when it "Sickens" you. When is pis$es you off. When it makes you angry. When your blood boils. When you can do all that; then you respect an individual's rights.

aseanag; I'm not sure who "Encouraged" you to stop commenting, but I don't support that. Whether you understand military tradition or not, and why many here disagree with your position, is totally a separate issue. Whether people agree or not with you, you have every right in the world to say what you want. I spent 20+ years defending that right. And unless individuals get PERSONAL with each other to harm or demean them; I'll be damned if I'll ever support censoring what you have to say. I didn't spend 20+ years of my life for that. Neither did anyone else here, OR our son's and daughters who are at the academy now.
 
aseanag said:
Please let me know the number where I said ring knocker. I have tried to get parents to post on this site but they won't.
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That's because if you say anything that someone disagrees with then inevitably your parenting skills are called into question:( It's really too bad:frown:
 
Gosh, I'm glad I was playing golf today and missed all this. I thought it was busy and the fecal matter was hitting the air circulation device then. Today takes the cake.

I hope no one takes this personally because it isn't meant personally. I don't think it's even conscious, but I do think some parents want to be able to tell their friends how, after the audience finished their standing ovation for Joe Biden's speech, the Thunderbirds flew low overhead to show their respect for the graduates. It makes their DD and DS special. Thing is, their DD and DS are special anyway. The Thunderbirds aren't necessary to make them special or even make the graduation ceremony special. Jcleppe was correct that what they deserve is the training and equipment they need to do the jobs they assume the day after graduation. Go Zoomies!

:zip:
 
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