Nominating sources

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Shurstell, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. Shurstell

    Shurstell Member

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    Exactly how many appointments are offered before they get to the national pool? I know each congressman is given five slots at the USAFA at a time. That means they can only send about one every year. Is that the same for Presidential, ROTC, etc? For example, ROTC only sending five every year for the twenty slots they are allotted?
     
  2. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Click on the link at the end of my signature block, and you'll have a PDF of the entire air force academy current catalog. It shows everything you're looking for, plus most other questions. Pages 6-8 of the catalog. (Pages 18-20 of the pdf file).

    But in short, the academy can have UP TO 100 per year from presidential. UP TO 85 enlisted active duty. UP TO 85 from the reserves. UP TO 20 from ROTC. There's also an allotment for US territories like quam, virgin islands, Puerto Rico, etc...

    But I know what your underlying question is. If there are on average; one from each rep/senator, and if you're not one of those, what are your chances for the remaining slots. Well; if the average of one for the rep/senator equals 535; and UP TO 100 for presidentials; and UP TO 20 for ROTC; and throw normal years is around 50 for enlisted; then throw in a few more for the territories, children of MIA/DAV/etc..., We'll say a total of 725+/-; and this coming selection is going to average around 1050; that means about 425 from the "National Pool" where all those who didn't receive an appointment from one of the nomination categories listed previously, will all be grouped together to compete from.

    Unfortunately, we can't give you firm numbers. The academy can go "UP TO" in a lot of categories, but it doesn't mean they will. The only thing guaranteed, is that they pretty much HAVE TO fill the MOC slots and the territories. If a MOC has a vacant slot, and they provided a slate, and the nominees are qualified, the academy must give those slots. But after than, everything else is "UP TO". If they max out the UP TO's, in theory, there might only be about 300 slots left for the national pool. Hope this answers your question. Mike...
     
  3. Shurstell

    Shurstell Member

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    Thanks for the response. So there are 100 appointments through Presidential nominations every year?
     
  4. LFry94

    LFry94 USAFA C1C '17

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    There's the answer to your question. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I try to rationalize being long winded in my speech and writing. Hoping to be clear in my communications. Obviously I am not very clear. I need to work on that. mike...
     
  6. LFry94

    LFry94 USAFA C1C '17

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    If it makes you feel better, you answered a small question that I had and was too lazy to ask. That is, the approximate number of candidates that will receive an appointment from the nation pool.

    I also read a large portion of that PDF file you link to in your signature that I had never noticed before.
     
  7. Shurstell

    Shurstell Member

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    I just wanted to make sure that that was one hundred appointments per year and not up to 100 out of the slots. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    It's UP TO 100 appointments from the presidential nominations. In an average year, there will be about 500 Presidential Nominations. Of those 500, UP TO 100 can receive an appointment using the presidential nomination. That doesn't mean 100 presidential nominees WILL RECEIVE an appointment. Maybe it's 90. Maybe 95. Maybe 85. The academy has the right to choose however many they want to. They just can't give MORE THAN 100 appointments using a presidential nomination.

    Those "Up To" 100 appointments aren't part of the 535 for Reps/Senators. It's not part of the UP TO 20 for ROTC. Presidential is it's own category. Just like representatives and senators. If you aren't one of the lucky 535+/- who received an appointment using your MOC's nomination, and you go to the national pool, if you receive an appointment there, you are using a MOC nomination, but it DOESN'T COUNT Towards your Reps/Senators maximum allowed of 5 at the academy.
     
  9. ncmom26

    ncmom26 Member

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    I know I'm new to all this but the suspense is killing me. DS doens't seem as rattled at I am. Not being from a military family or background it's all so confusing to me. :)
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    It's the government. Did you expect it to not be confusing? Honestly; the academy in the past had more of a "Rolling" appointment process. If your application walked on water, you found out earlier if you were going to be offered an appointment. Because of the economy, we've had more people decide to stick it out at the academy than normal. This has created too many many graduates and too many individuals becoming commissioned officers. Add on the change in military missions and a smaller requirement for military members, and you see the need for cutting back. Well; the best way to cut back is to ensure that you don't offer more appointments than you want acceptance. To do that, while maintaining the highest quality and most diverse class of cadets, it to wait as long as possible before offering appointments. This way they can see and compare all applicants.

    "Hurry up and Wait" is a concept you get use to in the military.
     
  11. Packer

    Packer Member

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    CC: A question on number of MOC nominations. Each MOC can have 5 cadets at the academy at one time and it takes 4 years to get through the academy. Therefore every 4th year a MOC would have two openings. This would lead me to believe that each year the number of MOC nomination slots would be 535X1.25 = 668. Is this correct?
     
  12. ncmom26

    ncmom26 Member

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    DS's MOC only submitted three noms for USAFA. He was one of them. I have no idea what that means, if anything.
     
  13. Packer

    Packer Member

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    That is likely good for your son as he is only competing with 2 others to win your MOC's vacancy, assuming he only has one vacancy this year. They can nominate up to 10 for each vacancy.
     
  14. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Packer; if you want to use averages you can, but the reality is that the reason 5 is the max is because it's possible for a cadet to have to leave and come back. So it's basically 1 per year, with the occasional 5th. Remember; air force is young. However; army and navy have been around a long time. The rules apply to all 3. But a cadet could have left for medical, religious, family emergency, etc...

    Also; there really are some MOCs who might have 2 available slots open, but CHOOSE to not try and fill both slots. They might not feel they have 2 guaranteed worthy applicants. There's a lot of reasons.

    Also, you have to realize that both the academy and the MOC are playing games with each other. Last year, I/we had an individual who had a presidential and received an EARLY appointment. (October-November). Obviously it was using the presidential. However; one of the senators nominated him anyway. When the spring came, the academy had MOVED his allocated slot FROM the presidential slate to the senator's slate. This meant our state got one less appointment because the academy wanted to use the presidential for someone else. With the cutbacks and appointments not coming out until spring, it's not a big deal, but when there are early appointments, I tell the candidate as well as the MOC's that if a candidate has an actual APPOINTMENT in hand using a presidential, ROTC, or similar; do NOT give the candidate a nomination.

    So while mathematically, you can say that 668 of the "X" amount of appointments will come from reps/senators, this isn't necessarily true. Neither is the rounded off 535 for 1 for each rep/senator. My state has the 2 senators, but we only have 1 representative for the entire state. Yet, the year my son started his freshman year at the academy, our state had 6 candidates with appointments. 1 presidential; 1 from the prep-school; one senator had 2 slots; one had NONE available; 1 for a representative; and another from the national pool. Bottom line: No amount of math or what a senator or representative in another state/district does; will have any affect on a person's odds/chances of receiving an appointment. More than half of the qualified individuals who don't receive an appointment are good enough to get accepted to some of the finest universities in the country. The truth is: There's simply not enough spots in the academies for everyone who wants to come here. Same with harvard, yale, princeton, stanford, purdue, MIT, Cornell, etc... They only have room for so many. Same with the academies.
     
  15. Packer

    Packer Member

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    CC: Thanks for the explanation. I had thought about the 5 year cadets but also thought about the 20% or so that leave early and thus open up MOC slots. I also hear that there are some MOC's that don't have and candidates.

    I am certainly not trying to pin you down or call you out but was mostly curious about how accurate the 535 number really is. I have always figured the real number was higher than 535, therefore, the NWP was smaller.
     
  16. Shawn

    Shawn Member

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    CC: It might be a question that has already been answered, but where do Falcon preps/ prep school candidates fit into that number?
     
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Prep school students who want to apply to the academy, have to receive a nomination just like any other candidate. They are selected from the same slates as everyone else. And if their parent was also military, they can also get a presidential nomination just like any other qualified applicant. Everything is the same. They are competing along with the high school seniors.

    Having said that: Having gone to the prep school gives you a lot more points in the academic, athletic, and leadership areas. What does that mean? Basically; if you do decently at the prep-school and WANT to go to the academy, and can get a nomination...... Then you have a really, really, really, good chance of receiving an appointment. I am talking about the academy prep school. Not the other military prep schools. Yes, they do help to, but the academy prep school is it's own little world. The prep school is about 10 months long, and traditionally have about 240 students. About 1/5th are prior enlisted. So, it's hard to say how this decreases certain odds. Some of these people are going to get in with their rep/senator's nomination. Some with a presidential. Some in the national pool. Just consider these 240 people as part of the thousands and thousands applying. So again; they don't have their own category. They do however have a better than average chance of receiving an appointment because of the extra academic, athletic, and leadership points they have.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  18. batmom

    batmom Member

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    in theory, there might only be about 300 slots left for the national pool. Hope this answers your question. Mike...[/QUOTE]

    Do these numbers account for the recruited athletes, many of whom have already received their letters of appointment? I realize that they also need to receive MOC nominations, but do they also impact the 5 (maximum) slots that any senator or congressman(woman) can have at the academy cumulatively. It appears (if I am understanding the numbers correctly) that typically each MOC can only be assured that one candidate (or maybe 2) might be given an offer of appointment. Thank you for all of your input and information. This forum has been amazingly helpful!
     
  19. Packer

    Packer Member

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    batmom, you may want to take a look at this thread on the USMA part of the forum http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=23960&page=4.
    It concerns LOA'a not athletes but I think the end result is the same. The athlete needs a nomination just like everybody else but they may not be a slate winner. I don't think athletes have a seperate pool so they may come from the NWL at times. I am sure CC will chime in and give a much better answer.
     
  20. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    Packer, I think that you are right on. There is no "special" pool that appointments of athletes are charged against. Athletes can come from the NWL. But I also recall that there is some number of appointments charged to the Superintendent - something like 50 and these can included recruited athletes as well.
     

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