Nomination Logistics Questions

I hate to toss in some negativity here but...

I sit on my MoC's nomination board and one of the things asked is: "which SA is your FIRST choice?" If you told me USNA and I thought you were a superb candidate, I would ask the USNA board "Are you going to nominate so-and-so because if you're not, we'd like to nominate him/her to USAFA." If they say "Yes, we are; superb candidate!" Then we will DEFER nominating them because they said USNA was their first choice.

We will then go nominate another candidate for USAFA that had USAFA as their first choice.

At the end of the day, there are NO nominations left to any SA. My guess is your MOC's boards are much the same. Our goal is to nominate as many deserving candidates as we can to serve our nation.

NOW...I had a candidate many years ago...he was so USAFA oriented that he would have died a thousand deaths to go. He did NOT get in; but received "full ride" AFROTC scholarship and went from the hills of Arizona to Embry Riddle in Daytona Beach.

Oh, did I mention that this young man could have been a male model? I assumed once he got to Daytona...that was it.

The next fall he called still wanting to go for it. So he did...and the congressman, remembering him, said: "I know his family has limited funds, he doesn't have to come back here, I'll nominate him!" And he did!

To WEST POINT!

You can imagine the reaction. Tears, frustration, etc... I took this young man to lunch and asked him this question:

"Do you want to go to USAFA because it's USAFA and air force and that's all that you care about? Or do you want to go to become an officer and serve the United States?"

He sat back with a surprised look on his face...thought for a couple of minutes and then said: "sir...I want to serve as an officer to defend our country, to better myself, and to make a difference." (Or words to that effect, it was early 1999...memory...)

Captain Chad, USMA '03 is now an MC/RC-12 Instructor pilot after having served as a UH-60 IP, and pilot, in ALL the AOR's you read about. He has accomplished amazing things, which little ribbons on his uniform attest to, but to me the most amazing thing is to see how much he's changed since I first met him as a 9th grader with a dream.

And yes, we still keep in touch...and I couldn't be more proud of him if he were my own son. I had a tiny little bit in this show...he's the star, but its nice to see him and say: "MAYBE I had a little bit in this..."

THAT makes my role in the military wholly satisfying.

And that is why, if you're offered an appointment to USNA and your desire is to SERVE as an OFFICER in the armed forces of the United States, you need to look LONG and HARD and what your goals are. If it's just to go to the AFA because it's a "family thing" or "I like USAFA" or anything like that, may I respectfully suggest you do NOT accept an appointment to USNA and then try to go to USAFA? You would be taking an appointment away from someone that truly wants to serve.

BUT...if you, like Chad, want to SERVE...and that's your goal, please tell me how USNA and either the US Naval service (and I include the USMC here) or a cross-commission is a bad thing?

You have, IMHO, some serious soul searching to do. I don't mean to sound "tough, hard-hearted, mean, etc.," but I think you're where Chad was and I just use him as an example all the time because of how proud I am of his choice and his accomplishments.

YOU could be like Chad.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
flieger83 said:
I sit on my MoC's nomination board and one of the things asked is: "which SA is your FIRST choice?" If you told me USNA and I thought you were a superb candidate, I would ask the USNA board "Are you going to nominate so-and-so because if you're not, we'd like to nominate him/her to USAFA."
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I'm confused about this portion of your post.

Are you sitting on a USAFA specific nomination board for your MOC? If so, don't all the candidates you interview already have the USAFA listed as their first choice?

How would the USNA board choose to nominate this candidate (when you asked them) if they never interviewed him and haven't reviewed his file?

Out of curiosity: how would a candidate in your MOC's system manage to receive two nominations to different SAs? Clearly you would nominate a "superb" candidate to the USAFA only if the USNA did not. Why wouldn't a superb candidate receive noms to both?
 
Flieger has a really good point. This is my third time applying for the Academies. Why would you be disappointed if you got into the USNA that is such a huge honor. Any Academy is a huge honor. I have worked my butt off just trying to get into any Academy. I know I'm not the smartest kid and honestly I wish I was. But, you need to realize that you are gifted with the ability to even get this far, not everyone is. Take your cards and stick with them. No use turning down an appointment. Do you really want to serve your country or just fly cause you can do that at Embry Riddle or any other aviation school. Think about it.
 
aglages said:
I'm confused about this portion of your post.

Are you sitting on a USAFA specific nomination board for your MOC? If so, don't all the candidates you interview already have the USAFA listed as their first choice?

How would the USNA board choose to nominate this candidate (when you asked them) if they never interviewed him and haven't reviewed his file?

Out of curiosity: how would a candidate in your MOC's system manage to receive two nominations to different SAs? Clearly you would nominate a "superb" candidate to the USAFA only if the USNA did not. Why wouldn't a superb candidate receive noms to both?
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Excellent questions, I'll try to answer them.

I sit on the USAFA board as the "in uniform" member. There are two others; one a retired officer and one a prior officer. The candidates we interview are those that have said they'd like to be considered for USAFA; not all of them list USAFA as their first choice. We typically will interview candidates that have USAFA as their third choice; and we know this up front. We'll still give them the benefit of an interview and we evaluate them as if USAFA was their first choice.

In this scenario, if a candidate put USNA first, USAFA second, and that was it, they would meet both boards. And at the end of the day, ALL boards will have "racked and stacked" their interviewees...and then we cross-check with the other boards to see if we have any "identical matches." IF we do, then we see if any are the "principal" nominee as my MOC uses the "Principal/9 Alternates" method. If they are NOT the principal, then we "may" offer two nominations, if we have that luxury. But most times, we don't have that luxury as we'll have 10 excellent folks that want USAFA as their first choice, 10 for USNA, etc. And those folks will receive the nominations over someone that has that SA as their second choice.

We also check with the senators' offices to see if we're going to duplicate. My MOC likes to nominate as many folks as he can; so if he sees a candidate HAS a senators nomination, and he can give a nomination to another worthy candidate or "double up" someone, he'll pass on the "double up" and give the nomination to someone that doesn't have one.

Make sense?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
flieger83 said:
We also check with the senators' offices to see if we're going to duplicate. My MOC likes to nominate as many folks as he can; so if he sees a candidate HAS a senators nomination, and he can give a nomination to another worthy candidate or "double up" someone, he'll pass on the "double up" and give the nomination to someone that doesn't have one.
USAFA '83
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That's exactly what my congressman and senator did not do! Now I have two noms to USNA and none to AFA, despite applying directly to both academies.

To address your earlier point, I absolutely want to serve my country as a military officer. I wouldn't dream of applying to an academy if I felt otherwise. However, I've approached this goal of service with two things in mind:

1. What can I offer the military and in which branch can I offer the most?
2. What military branch am I most likely to thrive in and achieve my personal goals?

With that in mind, I'm still in a bind between Navy and Air Force, leaning Air Force, but no nomination to Air Force (two to Navy). I live in Washington State, which is more competitive for USNA than it is for AFA. Do you think my congressman would be willing to make a switch for me if I politely and coherently explained the situation I now find myself in?
 
flieger83 said:
.. We typically will interview candidates that have USAFA as their third choice; and we know this up front. We'll still give them the benefit of an interview and we evaluate them as if USAFA was their first choice.

In this scenario, if a candidate put USNA first, USAFA second, and that was it, they would meet both boards.
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Thanks Steve! Yes it makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately none of our state's US Senators or our Congressional Rep allow candidates to interview with more than one board regardless of whether they have 4 choices of SAs or only 2. In the scenario that you described above a candidate that selected the USAFA as a choice other than #1 would never be interviewed (and considered) for a USAFA nom.

Thanks again for the excellent explanation!
 
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