North Georgia vs. The Citadel or VMI

Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by heesfan5, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. heesfan5

    heesfan5 Member

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    Let me start off by saying that I am not trying to offend anyone or start an argument, but I am just wondering.

    Without cost on the table, if I was awarded the army ROTC scholarship to all of these schools (North Georgia, VMI, The Citadel) why would I want to go to VMI or The Citadel instead of NG. I am interested in all of them, but if NG was the #1 AROTC program in the country, why would I choose the other schools for AROTC? I just cannot decide between these schools and I know they are all great schools, but why would I want to go to the other SMC's?

    If this does not make since please tell me and I will try and explain more. I am just in a predicament in which I can't decide. Anything would help.

    Thanks
     
  2. larry2013

    larry2013 Member

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    Given your boundaries - cost aside, is north georgia a military environment? I dont know that school - but can tell you that the daily environment of both of the others is a military college - much like the academies. That's a big difference, if north georgia is a regular college. My memory may be dated, but I believe that the only 2 public colleges that even have a cadet corps within them is A&M and VA Tech.
    Have you visited the 3 schools? Others that post here seem to have benefited greatly from being on the campus of schools they are considering. If it is possible you should - this would give you an excellent view of daily life.
    good luck, there are some learned posters here, perhaps they can give you their personal insight of your schools.
    larry's mom
     
  3. Murf

    Murf Member

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    You may want to visit their websites as well. I know that VMI and the Citadel have pictures posted. Our son is at VMI, but he wants to be a Marine Corp Officer.

    Murf
    :smile:
     
  4. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    I suggest you do visits. It may be expensive to go to all three but is well worth it seeing as this will be the place you will go for the next four years. At least you'll know you made the right choice once you have seen it for yourself. :thumb:

    North Georgia is one of the six senior military colleges much like VMI and Citadel. As such, it is not a "normal" college and has a heavy military environment. A lot of my friends go there and it was one of my top choices.
     
  5. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Well as several others have already suggested - go visit the school. Keep in mind that you are in fact going to college first not into the Army. The ROTC program at all of these schools will be pretty much equal and they are all top notch so that would not be the differentiating criteria IMHO. Number 1 today will be number threee next year and number two the year after that etc... it's a dynamic evaluation and the difference betwen the programs is pretty small.So which college has the academic program and environment that best fits what you are looking for? There are some big differences between these schools in terms of academic profiles and reputation, majors offered, lifestyles and size and general feel of the campus and the best way to appreciate that is to visit and/ or at least talk with alumni or college rep about the schools tha tyou are trying to decide between.
     
  6. heesfan5

    heesfan5 Member

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    I have visited all three of the colleges. From my visit I really did not have a favorite after, it was more like I felt comfortable going to any of them. NG has the military structure just like VMI and The Citadel. NG goes on the fact that they only have AROTC and so they are concentrating on you becoming a Army Officer, not a cadet like the other two. It is a Army environment. I know I seem bias towards NG, but I do like the other two schools greatly. That is why I have this problem.(even though it is not a bad problem to have:thumb:)
     
  7. sprog

    sprog Member

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    Just out of my own interest, could you elaborate on why you feel that The Citadel has a more relaxed approach? I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that your post is the first time I've ever heard that school described as "more relaxed" than other SMCs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  8. CAVCDR

    CAVCDR Member

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    we visited all 5 service school

    My son felt VMI was the school as soon as he was there. I liked Norwich the most, it was a great school and had a "normal school" attached. Texas A&M was great but too far from home for him for his first steps of adulthood. The Citadel just did a poor job selling the school. It was my favorite location though. The basically had cadets walk the campus with you.

    VMI did their homework, knew my son's intended major, his interest, spent the night and the better part of two days there with fellow Rats who did not paint it in a rosy pic. He liked the fact they were just as advertised. He is a 4th year there now, he loves it 90% of the time.
     
  9. RahVaMil2009

    RahVaMil2009 Member

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    That's an impressive statistic for any cadet at any military school. :smile:
     
  10. havana brown

    havana brown Member

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    We are from Northern Virginia, and my son wanted to enlist in the military right out of high school. I told him he really needed a college education, so a military school was a compromise for us.

    He was VMI all the way. We visited the campus 3-4 times and met with recruiters. They told us it would be very difficult for him to receive a scholarship there. They also told us the Army had all the money. :biggrin:

    A week before my son's senior high school year was to begin we visited VMI to get a feel for it while school was in session. He also decided he wanted to visit NGCSU, just to make sure he was making the right decision. After our visit to VMI we continued drivign another 10 hours to Georgia. We met with Cadet Recruitment and everything turned around for us. My son loved the campus. They were also pretty much throwing money at us. As a cadet at NGC, no matter what state you are from, you receive IN STATE TUITION!!! For us that meant it was cheaper for him to go to NGC than to any Virginia public college! He also received a 4-year school based scholarship. I am paying for the tuition and Uncle Sam is paying for room and board, books, and uniforms, and giving him a monthly salary!!! My son will graduate from college with NO student loans!!!! :thumb:

    NGCSU is bit bigger than VMI, but it was also more military/civilian. What I mean by that is that you not only get the military lifestyle, but you have classes with civilians, you can have meals with them, date them, socialize with them, so it's the best of both worlds. At VMI, first years aren't allowed off campus until Thanksgiving. At NGC they have once closed weekend a month that is mandatory to stay, but other times (even during the weeks) they are allowed to do as they please.

    The one major thing that was important that NGC had over VMI was the amount of major. I believe VMI has 12 and NGC has over 30. My son was going to study international relations at VMI, but now he has chosen criminal justice at NGC (and they are well known for that, nursing, and business).


    If you have any questions, please feel free to email me or PM me. I love NGC, and love telling people about it.
     
  11. citadel14

    citadel14 New Member

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    The citadel has taken a less "physically demanding" approach. They have simply taken control from the upperclassmen and put the control in the hands of the TACS. This means that the TACs are more involved so they will punish upperclass cadets who are hazing knobs. Don't get me wrong, the upperclass still does haze the knobs, they just have to be more secretive about it. The citadel is still very physically demanding as long as you aren't a snitch. The snitches are usually pointed out and are mentally destroyed by their fellow classmates and by upperclass cadets. The citadel is all about appearance. They want to appear like a formalized military college, but on the inside it is still bust your balls PT behind closed doors getting beat by rifles while hanging off of the full press with your legs at 90 degrees holding another rifle. At least my company is. Depending on what company you get at the citadel depends on how hard it is. Most are still traditional. If you want to be in the band then you are considered a disgrace by most normal cadets. and please dont come here if you play sports. we hate them too.

    -experienced citadel cadet
     
  12. SF49ers

    SF49ers Member

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    '14 kid, you haven't yet been here for an entire semester, so I believe you're perspective is limited. The system isn't difficult just to be difficult, it is purposeful. You will see more of that as time goes on.

    The Citadel is most definitely a military college. We follow military procedures, drill, and discipline. We also are a school surrounded by tradition, and our fourth-class year more closely resembles the basic training area of the military. The Citadel does emphasize appearance, but they don't try to hide the toughness of the system. That is why they offer pre-knob visits to incoming cadets. The four-year education will prepare cadets to be principled leaders. I fully believe that.

    We are different from most schools in our emphasis in the importance of the different companies. They are different, but despite my pride in my company I don't look down on the others. Band should not be looked down upon. In addition to their normal duties, they also spend time practicing music and marching with their instruments. Last year's regimental commander was from Band, and they typically are one of the best companies at military drill. As far as athletes, they do receive some scorn from the corps of cadets. This is due to the tendency of athletes to slack off on their military and cadet obligations. They do have additional responsibilities, such as the large amount of hours they spend practicing. That is not an excuse, but I think it is generally unappreciated by the majority of cadets. There have been plenty of great cadet-athletes, and some of the best cadets are athletes. The company, branch of service, sport, or anything else are irrelevant to the quality of the cadet. It all depends on the individual.

    As for physical training, there is mandatory training for all knobs until the cadre training period is over (Parent's Weekend in October). If a cadet receives a 220 or above on the PT test, then they don't have mandatory or remedial PT afterwards. Those pursuing or receiving military contracts have military PT a few times a week on the side. Before formations, knobs form up in their squads and are inspected by their sergeants and corporals. They are typically pushed (20-30 push ups) before each.

    Hazing is not tolerated by the administration in any form. Additional PT is what most "hazing" is. Anything which is demeaning or morally wrong is not tolerated, and is a far cry from physical training. PT serves as a productive punishment, while anything else does not. It is, however, considered hazing by the administration. But that is the only area where cadets and the administration differ on the definition of hazing. There are multiple channels for cadets to go through if they are being hazed in any form or fashion. If cadets go straight to the TAC officers, then they are violating the chain of command and the proper way of dealing with the issue. This is frowned upon.

    I hope i was mis-reading you when you mentioned being beat by rifles. That is truly disturbing. I have not heard of that happening to anyone in my year, and if it is happening then the perpetrator should be kicked out. Rumors abound throughout the corps, and exaggeration is quite possible. I certainly hope so. If this happens at all it is not at all in the norm and is quite radically wrong.

    -More experienced Citadel cadet
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2010
  13. bballmommy44

    bballmommy44 Parent

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    I know this thread is old. My son is looking at The Citadel and UNG. Would love some pros/cons for both. He does have ROTC scholarship to The Citadel and I sure wont mind visiting there, but UNG is closer to home and I am seeing lots of positive things about this school. Please forgive me since I am a newbie. Guess I will learn the lingo.
    Thanks!
     
  14. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

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    If you're less than a lightyear away and especially if you already have a scholarship, The Citadel is definitely worth checking out.
    PS, What branch is your DS's scholarship for?
     
  15. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    DS was accepted to Citadel, Norwich and UNG. He is now a freshmen cadet at North Georgia. Incidentally, he pretty much ruled out Norwich because he isn't a big fan of cold weather. So why did he choose UNG over Citadel?
    * In-state tuition benefit for out-of-state cadets. He is 100% committed to serving his country as an Army officer, so investing in his future, even if he didn't get a scholarship, was a priority for him. He could afford the investment in UNG even if he didn't get a scholarship.
    * Since all he ever wanted to do was become an Army officer, and UNG's Corps of Cadets is focused on training Army officers, he liked that focus. This was confirmed when he visited the school in his senior year for NLC weekend.
    * UNG has a government flagship program to train Army officers who would be fluent in a strategic language on top of their major. DS was interested in majoring in International Affairs with fluency in a strategic language. Citadel did not have such a program. DS saw an investment in a bachelor's degree that would result in language fluency as a solid education investment leading to a more predictable post-Army career path. If he had gone to Citadel, he probably would have "settled" for majoring in criminal justice or history, and while there's nothing wrong with that if that's your major, it wasn't his first choice. His ultimate long term goal is diplomatic relations, I think. The plan is that he begins intensive language training this summer, continues with two back-to-back language classes next fall, then spends next spring in a study abroad program, taking classes at a foreign military academy overseas, and then doing an internship at a foreign company. He would continue his MS classes at UNG throughout that time away from campus via online learning, and he would PT with cadets at the academy. Capstone year would be spent abroad as well. (So, by the time he commissions, he would have spent a year and a half abroad.)
    * DS loves to go hiking and camping and he loves the mountains. At UNG, you can literally walk out your dorm and go hiking, camping, caving, kayaking and tubing in the mountains near campus, or you can hang out with cadets who have cars and travel to state parks and mountain camping in practically endless supply in Georgia, Tennessee, NC and Alabama. The school loans out top-quality gear for free. My DS has been camping, hiking or caving on every "open" weekend that he's been there, except for the couple of open weekends I visited or prior to major test times. (Sometimes, those camping events are tied to a military extracurricular he's involved in and it includes an intensive military training and education component. See next bullet point.)
    * DS wants to be a Ranger; the Ranger training school is only a few miles away from UNG. He participates in the mountain training extracurricular group, which is intense. It uses a similar training plan as the mountain phase of Ranger school. At times he has hated it. At times he loves it. But he knows with 100% certainty that he is becoming smarter and stronger because of the mental and physical intensity. It's not for everyone, but if your goal has to do with infantry, trying out for one of the military training groups once first semester is over might be something to check out.
    * DS likes the fact that UNG has non-cadet students, and that he can, at times, feel as though he's just a regular college student playing ultimate frisbee out on the drill field in civvies. First-semester freshmen cadets have more rules and restrictions than everybody else, but upperclassmen wear uniforms M-F till 5, but after that they can wear civvies, just like in the regular Army. (Those rules would be different on closed weekends and other special occasions, of course.) He has classes, intramurals and extracurricular activities with cadets and non-cadets, and as such, cadets get many opportunities to display and practice their leadership skills in the classroom and in extracurricular activities on campus -- just like in the real world. There is no "athletic elite" at UNG either; cadet leaders tend to take on campus-wide leadership roles. Many of the cadet company leaders are also officers in fraternities, sororities and other non-cadet ECs like the Habitat for Humanity chapter and SGA.
    * Dorms at UNG are modern, renovated, technologically functional and safe.
    * DS has liked and been challenged in his classes so far. This semester is like college nirvana for him -- by luck, he got into a plethora of classes related to his major, and he likes and gets along with all of his professors and he says he's doing fine, grade-wise, right now. I know all of his semesters won't be so perfect, but it is nice that he's having such a good semester academically. He's happy and challenged mentally. That makes me happy.
    * PT is competitive, and this creates an atmosphere where PT becomes a necessary part of daily life rather than any sort of drudgery. It could be just his company, and his personal PT goals, but my take on it is that DS truly enjoys PT and the competitiveness. His company is extremely proud of their cumulative GPA, PT scores, company leadership and inspection scores.
    * There is a large percentage of cadets who are members of the National Guard, and many cadets with prior service and deployments, contributing to the general campus atmosphere of a training ground for military leaders. Most cadets who are planning to commission take extra classes resulting in a military leadership minor.
     
  16. bballmommy44

    bballmommy44 Parent

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    He has an Army ROTC scholarship.
     
  17. bballmommy44

    bballmommy44 Parent

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    wow. thanks for the info. i will share with my son.
     
  18. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

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    ROTC Scholarship=guaranteed Active Duty Commission from an SMC when he graduates. Useful in a shrinking Army. Plus school is a tad cheaper.
     
  19. bballmommy44

    bballmommy44 Parent

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    yes indeed. thanks.
     
  20. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    I don't believe the ROTC scholarship is the source of the guarantee. It would seem to the graduation. Note the following passage from the law:

    "The Secretary of the Army shall ensure that a graduate of a senior military college who desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon graduation from the college, who is medically and physically qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned to active duty."

    which raises the question of whether and how often the PMSs at SMCs have refused to make a recommendation for active duty when it is requested.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014

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