NROTC competitive?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Wes30, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Wes30

    Wes30 New Member

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    Hello, based on my stats I was wondering if I would be considered competitive for a NROTC scholarship to Auburn with a major of Mechanical Engineering.

    Scores:
    ACT comp: 28
    Combined highest scores from two tests: 29 math. 27 English. 27 Reading. 30 Science.
    GPA: 3.66
    Two AP and one honors class this year, one AP and honors class last year.
    Four varsity football letters, One varsity golf letter.
    NHS member, Mu Alpha Theta member, Key club member.
    Many hours of volunteering and heavily involved in church.

    Those are just some of the Stats I could think of off the top of my head. My application has been in since August I believe, and I haven't yet received any word. Could I hope to be competitive in the last few boards? Thank you for all of your insight.
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Hard for anyone here to ever say for sure. Your academics look fair, especially your ACT scores. Difficult to tell on the rest of Academics as we don't know the strength of your school, which AP and Honor Courses you took and what your grades were. Your athletics look good. I would have to say though, and perhaps you left this out, I don't really see any leadership listed.

    As far as your application goes, we don't know how your interview was scored or what your essay looked like. We also don't know the major you listed. As you know 85% of scholarships awarded will go to Tier I and II majors (I'm assuming you're a Navy Option since you didn't mention the PFT Marine Options take). Finally we don't know the schools you listed, which ones are in state, and how you match up with those schools. These are also key factors in being awarded a scholarship.

    The app is done. Be patient and simply await word from the boards. In the meantime work plan B, C, D, and E. You may not know one way or the other, for sure, until sometime in April so you need to be ready to pull the trigger on one of the backup plans if needed. Oh yeah, sit down with Mom and Dad and get the FAFSA submitted as soon as you can to help put alternate plans into effect.
     
  3. terp1984

    terp1984 Member

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    IMO the math and leadership look a bit weak. What is your class rank and what is the profile of your school. It is a national competition for the scholarships and about 1700 offers will be made. Your major selection will be a positive being tier 1. Best of luck. If you don't get the scholarship-walk on and compete for a side load scholarship, they are available.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Since it is NROTC, when you had your interview did you ask them how many scholarships will be offered at their unit? Or from historical data at Auburn, the % of applicants that get a scholarship?

    There could be 1700 offered nationally, unlike AFROTC, but like AROTC the scholarship is tied to both the school and the mid/cadet. So if only 10 are allotted to Auburn and they have 70 applicants your chances would be different than if they had 50 scholarships and 70 applicants. That fact is part of the equation if you really want to know how you look.

    I am sure others can tell you if Auburn is a highly demanded school for NROTC applicants.

    The one thing that many kids in HS don't realize is any engineering major is not academically an easy path. You need a strong foundation, and many kids now attending college will have a higher ACT (since it is superscored) and more AP/IBs. Colleges are not like HS they are not going to slow the course down for you to catch up or continually asking questions during the class. It is the big boy way of thinking.

    NROTC is going to eat into those study hours, and will eat in more and more as you progressed through NROTC. Meanwhile at the same time your academic course load is not going to get easier, and now you are realizing that your cgpa in school will be part of your OML for your career field choices.

    The thing is if you get a scholarship as a STEM major and decide after 1 semester you don't like engineering or worse academically barely treading water you will need approval to change your major to another one. Staying in STEM is easy, trying to convert it to marketing or government is not. The scholarship might tie your hands in that decision process.

    Lots of kids enter engineering all across the nation every fall, however 4 yrs later that number is severely smaller due to attrition. I doubt many of them entered college believing they would not earn that degree, but many don't.

    As others have stated keep moving forward with plan B,C and D, which includes realizing that there are other scholarships offered even if you don't get the national one.
     
  5. Wes30

    Wes30 New Member

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    I will try to answer the questions best as possible, sorry if it is sporadic.

    As far as leadership is concerned, I should have elaborated, I am a very active leader in my church, not only in my youth group but also in a basketball ministry my parents and I conduct for underprivileged kids in my community. Also I was in many leadership positions while on a youth mission trip this past summer. I was a leader on the football team all throughout my career both by example and vocally.
    Auburn is my #1 choice school and it is IS for me.
    Class rank was 39/266 before this last semester, I should be a better rank now since my GPA has increased over this past semester. I would say our school is decently competitive academically.
    My interviewer said he would give me a competitive write up.
    And I do realize that pursuing a engineering degree will be challenging at any school but I look forward to and believe that I am ready for such a challenge.
    I have given thought to back up plans and, with part tuition, would still attend Auburn and strive for a side load scholarship as soon as possible.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Has Auburn accepted you? If not, have you gone on Naviance?

    Naviance should show you the stats of kids at your school that were accepted, waitlisted, and rejected.

    I don't know Auburn stats, and since I have no bone in the fight, I am too lazy to dig through the bowels of Auburn to see what their admission stats are.

    In the yrs I have been here, I have never seen a post where they say my school is not competitive academically. However, the fact is schools have their own way to see how competitive your school is, basically they look at the school profile and see the % that go Ivy, 4 Private, 4 yr Public, CC/Tech or work.
    ~ This gives them insight to the rigor and grading. You are top 15%, if their profile says 15% go Ivy, 20% go Private, 40% go Public, 20% go CC. 5% go work, you look better than if 0% go Ivy, 20% go Private, 20% go Public, 40% go CC, and 20% work.

    One is saying grading is hard from a college admissions perspective, one is saying As are handed out like candy on Halloween.

    That is why admissions ask for a sealed transcript. Typically it will include the school profile, showing how many APs are offered, the wcgpa scale, the academic requirements (gym, electives) with your academic grades. They want to level the playing field. It would be wrong to penalize a kid if they have to take 4 yrs of PE, while another only has to take 1 yr, and can now take more rigorous courses. In NC our DS could not take an AP unless they took the regular course 1st. IOTW, you had to have Bio, before you could take AP Bio. In VA, our DD could take std., honors or AP.

    DS would have taken an academic hit compared to DD if admissions looked at AP without seeing the school profile.

    Again, this is why Naviance is great. They can show you how your school, and the students from your school fared.

    The only thing I would say about the interviewer's comment is rack your brain regarding the exact words they said. You are competitive is vague. You are the most competitive is different.

    Nobody here is on the boards, and even if any are on the boards, because there is a classified information issue, they would be silent.

    I have said it before and will say it again, we can say YES you are a shoe in, but 2 days from now those fears and concerns will arise again. You need to move forward with the belief you will be in NROTC next yr no matter what the result will be.

    That means not only the financial, but more importantly as a new mid. train, train, train for the PFT. You don't want to be that mid where they are screaming your last name on the 1st day because you are the last person passing the finish line for the run, or the one where they have to keep correcting your sit up, push up form. You want them not to know your name in that scenario.

    This is also true for scholarship recipients...bust the PFT because you believed that after taking the PFA you were done, you are in trouble. You can't contract until you pass it to their stds. Your coach may have allowed you to play it loose regarding the form when counting, the mids will not play it loose, they will be anal on the form. It is common for the scores from the PFA to drop for the PFT for that exact reason.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Wes, what does this mean? You need to be specific when discussing this stuff. As I read it, you were still a participant and not a leader without additional info like:
    1. I held these offices
    2. I was captain of this team
    3. I was responsible for the siding team on the house we rebuilt while on mission (or something along those lines).

    Hopefully we all try to lead by example and being supportive of our teammates etc. But that is different from being recognized as a leader and being given specific responsibilities associated with a specific position. Not saying you're not a leader, just saying that without specifics its still impossible to evaluate your leadership.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  8. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    OP, I'd start shoring up Plan B. From what you've given us, I'm guesstimating your chance of getting an NROTC scholarship is under 20%.

    I apologize in advance for some comments below that compare the Branches. They are all critical, but they have different missions and the life/death exposure is very different between them.

    Concerns are:
    1) not being top 10% of your graduating class from a middling school,
    2) lowish math ACT (compared to NROTC scholarship winners, not compared to the national pool of ACT takers), and
    3) lack of FORMAL leadership titles/experiences. (as kinnem listed 1.-3. above).

    Being "a very active leader in church" is different from being in charge of the youth group. Participating in the basketball ministry program is different from founding it or being the President of it. When assessing officer potential, every commissioning source in every Branch of the Military is looking for evidence of 1) you have led people in an environment where their failure is YOUR failure, 2) you have learned how to create and successfully grow an organization (some evidence that you have potential as an entrepreneur AND are ambitious), and 3) peers and those over you look to you as a leader and have formally selected you above everybody else who wants the same title.

    While all Branches look for leadership, the relative criticality of Leadership is in direct relation to % of life/death situations in which your solid leadership is critical. Marines have the highest % of life/death exposure, so leadership is most important to them, well above academics. Army is next in line. Then Navy. Then Air Force. If you take a look at the websites that list and honor all KIA, you will see that the % of military personnel lost in action is much higher for Marines, then Army, then Navy, then Air Force. The importance of leadership is directly related to how often an officer in that Branch of the service will have the lives of their marines/soldiers/sailors/airmen in their hands in circumstances where a lack of leadership means the loss of lives. Since you are asking about Navy, leadership isn't the #1 thing they look at in an application folder (Math ACT is #1), but it is still very important.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think kinnems post is something to take to heart.

    We all want to support posters and give guidance, but unless you are brutally honest like what the boards will see, you do not do any good to yourself.

    Some of these posts from candidates remind me of the annual Xmas letters I receive every yr. The world is great. Kids are the best and will be receiving the Nobel next yr.

    If you want an honest answer, than be honest. I love my kids, but they are not the best thing since hot sliced bread.

    Instead of giving your greatest, maybe for all posters to be honest and ask this is my weakness, and how will that impact me?

    That is what I think kinnem was saying. He was seeing the weakness. You have to decide if you want to be honest when you respond. If you want to shade it, just remember the response will be based on that shading, and not true for your stats.

    I am not saying you are shading, I am saying others that may start a thread beware the answer is based on what you post.
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I don't think OP was anything other than honest in his excellent reply to kinnem's question. I think the issue is that OP may not understand exactly how critical "formal" leadership is to scholarship boards, and why. In my post above yours I tried to flesh that out... also being totally (brutally?) honest.
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Oh, and good for you Wes. I'm sure you are up to the challenges of Engineering and NROTC. Working your backup plans is also admirable, some folks are not wise enough to do that. Thank you for your willingness to serve and pursue NROTC without the scholarship if neccessary. Sideloads are a definite possibility as my own son can attest. As far as I'm concerned only good things come from participation in NROTC so I'm glad to hear you're willing to enroll without the scholarship if necessary. Good luck! :thumb:
     
  12. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    Wes30: Based on your posts, your application is in and you are waiting on a decision. At this point, things are what they are. I recommend that you redirect your focus from conjecture on your "chances" and focus on preparing and positioning yourself as best you can for a sideload scholarship.

    You have stated that you will most likely go to Auburn and join NROTC without a scholarship. Glad to hear it.

    Seek out leadership opportunities and training in your last semester of school and over the summer in your extracurriculars and job. Learn as much as you can about careers in the military. Get yourself in great shape - which is a fast way to get noticed even as a freshman. Start building the plan to make yourself as competitive as possible for a sideload scholarship.

    If you get the NROTC scholarship out of the remaining boards - great. If not, start working now on how to best position yourself for future consideration.

    Good luck!
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Each year many, like yourself, make a similar post asking what ther chances are for a scholarship. While you may receive validation, you may also receive skepticism. The fact is what you have is what you have, you can't change anything or make any imporvements at this time. All you can really do is wait for the outcome.

    The fact that you have already decided to Attend Auburn and enroll in NROTC with or without a scholarship is a great step, the partial tuition is an added bonus.

    Enjoy your last year in high school with the knowledge that next year you will be a student at Auburn and a NROTC Mid., that in itself is a great accomplishment to be proud of. If you are awarded a scholarship that will just be a bonus starting out. Try not to stress out over this process, I know it's hard but keep your goal of becoming a Naval Officer in the forefront.

    All the disecting of your stats mean nothing right now since you can't change what you have. My son listed his stats a couple years ago for the AROTC Scholarship, to be honest most told him he would most likely not receive a scholarship (Low ACT Scores). As it turned out he was offered a scholarship to 5 schools by the first board that year, anything can happen.

    Best advice I could give my son once his application was complete was to hope for the best and plan for the worst.

    Best of luck to you, whether you receive a scholarship or not.

    EDIT: Seems I cross posted with USMCGrunt, Great minds...and great advice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Just for clarification, I was not implying anything regarding anyone's post.

    If you look on the forum home page you will see at any given time 2-3X more people on each subsection, than those that are logged in. That means to me, there are many, many lurkers. My comment of shading was not for the class of 17, but 18 and 19 who are now starting to think about the process.

    I apologize to Wes and everyone else if they thought that was my intention regarding my post.

    I do respect dunninla in their desire to flesh things out. Our intentions are trying to guide and assist you the best we can. We can only do that if you are brutally honest with us.

    My answer to Wes would remain the same regardless. Apply! You have a 0% chance of receiving a scholarship for only 1 reason...you don't apply!

    Yes, it is hrs of essays, gathering paperwork, etc, but it is not 100+ hrs. Also, the applications open spring jr. yr, way before college apps. It might be 40 hrs. in total. 40 hrs, for 100K+ over 4 yrs is well worth the time IMPO!

    If you are an 18 or 19 class yr., be honest because now is the time you can rectify any problems/weaknesses.

    Final note. +1 to kinnem's post Good on you Wes30.

    The fact that you have decided the scholarship is the gravy, and you will push forward with Auburn and NROTC will be something the cadre will see and appreciate.

    There is always the topic of contacting the det. prior, most colleges have a spring open house for the students accepted to the college. You may consider this as an opportunity to meet mids. Call to see if they will be part of it, or if you can just meet some mids.

    Do it without the folks by your side. Mids/Cadets will act differently when the folks are around. More like a dog and pony show...very polite, respectful. You as an 18 yo, it will be peers from an age perspective.

    Best wishes, hopes, and thoughts, but most importantly thank you for your desire to serve this great nation so my class of 16 DS doesn't have to!
     
  15. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    ^^^^
    If you don't contact the unit at an open house be sure to contact them and let them know you plan to enroll in NROTC (of course if you get a scholarship this will be unnecessary), or barring that be sure to enroll in the Naval Science course and the Navy Lab. Registering for the courses should trigger the necessary paperwork. They'll send you a form for a physical you'll need your doctor to do (unless they use a physical that you needed to do for the college itself). They'll also notify you of the dates for NROTC freshman orientation and what you'll need to bring. This is usually the week before you move into the dorms so most kids move in right after orientation. This gives Mom and Dad an opportunity to bring the rest of your stuff down and proudly see you graduate from NROTC Orientation.
     

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