Number of AFROTC scholarship applicants?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by pv123, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. pv123

    pv123 Member

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    Does anyone know what the total of AFROTC High School Scholarships applicants were for 2011? I've heard numbers ranging from 900 to 30,000 who applied nationally last year...big range! Would like to know a solid number and compare it to the number who apply this year:)
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would go with about 15K-20K.

    Here are my reasons:
    1. AFA candidates will apply and they typically have 10K that open a PCQ
    2. AFROTC candidates do not necessarily apply for AFA, so add in an additional 5-10K on top of the AFA candidates.

    I would think the 900 number you have heard/read is tied to the number offered. It would be 20% of all of the AFROTC candidates per class yr.

    AFROTC is very competitive due to the STEM and type selection.
     
  3. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I have seen it posted on here by Marist or Clarkson (I think) that AROTC has around 10,000 applicants. I would guess that AFROTC has a similar number of applicants.
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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  5. pv123

    pv123 Member

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    Just got off phone with AFROTC HSSP headquarters:

    In 2011 there were 15,000 applications submitted for HSSP
    4,000 were eligible
    911 received scholarships
     
  6. Packer

    Packer Member

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    That is the way to do it! Go to the source and find out rather than listen to all of us speculators.:thumb:

    Thanks for posting what you found.
     
  7. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    4000 Navy
    4000 Air Force

    It seems clear then, that more than half the applicants to the Service Academies do NOT also apply to the ROTC program for their Branch.

    As far as Navy goes, there are about 10,000 applications to the Naval Academy Class of 2013 (corresponds to NROTC application in 2009), but I cannot find how many were "complete applications" ... check this link http://www.hometownannapolis.com/photos/110130usnaadmissions2.pdf

    Per that link, there were 10,885 "Candidates" to the USNA for the class of 2013, wherein I assume "Candidate" means a completed application.

    In any case, NROTC = 4,000 applications, USNA = 10,800 "Candidates", therefore the majority of applicants to the USNA do *not* also apply to NROTC.
     
  8. Packer

    Packer Member

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    They said 4000 were elgible. I am going to go out on a limb and say elgible means complete and qualified. At USAFA there are around 12,000 applicants and around 7500 of those become candidates. I would guess that all that make candidate at USAFA could become elgible for AFROTC scholarships so it may very well be that fewer than 1/2 of academy applicants apply for AFROTC.

    It is not exactly clear to me where USAFA draws the line in defining candidate so my analysis may be off. West Point is a little more clear and I think they have around 4000 that become 3Q'ed.

    I can't find where I came up with the 4000 number. Looking at the USMA class profile it says about 2500 are academically and physically qualified.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not true. You become an applicant 1st, and if they deem you competitive you can become a candidate, if not you remain applicant until you have a nom. USNA has for yrs hovers around 16K+ applicants. AFA hovers in the 13K marker.

    The AFA counts opening a PCQ as their start number, from there it is whittled down to applicant which is the 7500 number, and from there you become a candidate which is the 3600 number. You cannot be a candidate unless you have a nom or they deem you competitive.

    The AFA is the only SA I know that publicly states what their academic min is for an applicant to be deemed competitive...25 ACT V or above 490 SAT CR. Now honestly, they have a snowball's chance in Hades for direct admit because the avg is 650 CR and I think 29 ACT V. They like their sister SAs cannot deem medical because DoDMERB does that, and as far as the CFA goes no SA I know of states their mins, only their max.

    Applying to the AFA will not automatically place you into the AFROTC pool. You must apply there too.

    Using the numbers that pv123 supplied, you could see with 15K applicants, that it is more than likely that 7500 are AFA candidates. In 4 yrs here, I have met maybe 1 or 2 who did not apply AFROTC as plan B. On the SA forums it is stressed to always apply for the scholarship. I also have never met an ALO who does not stress that too. However, as the cliche goes you can drag the horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

    Back on topic, if you use the number of 900 receive scholarships out of 15K you have about a 6% chance of receiving a scholarship.

    Now break that down even more.

    Type 1 = 5% of all scholarships...so only 45 will be awarded and only 5% of them will go non-tech or about 2 or 3
    Type 2 = 20% of all scholarships .... or @180 and again only about 5% go to non-tech...which would be about 10
    Type 7 = 75% of all scholarships ... or 675 and this is where the majority of non-tech will get a scholarship, but will still be in the minority. I won't swear by it, but I believe it 25% of the 75% which would be @170

    Add it up as a non-tech, there are about 180 scholarships for non-tech majors. Which means you MUST have a strong applicant profile. This is why many will try to enter the tech route to secure the scholarship, which is wrong, because if they want to change to non-tech they need approval and it is unlikely for that to occur in this day and age.

    The big thing to understand is the AF allows Type 7's to convert to Type 2 3 yr, and since that is the bulk of the scholarships offered it can create an issue because the way it is structured financially.

    Type 7 will only pay up to IS tuition, Type 2 will pay up to 18K a yr. If the cadet goes to an OOS or private it will cost them more in the long run because each yr for 3 yrs they will max the 18K = 54K, whereas the IS may only cost 10K a yr = 40K.

    That money has to come from the pot. This is why you saw for the past few yrs the in-school scholarship boards come to a halt. They had not only enough cadets, but those on scholarship were burning through the money at a high rate.

    In the end, people will always ask a chance me because "I can't attend the dream school without it", and the fact is if you are really competitive you will be able to afford the school, because the majority of the candidates that get a scholarship or are near also get merit money from their colleges. For some that is why they convert the Type 7 to 2. They receive enough merit, and with a payment plan or a loan they only go in debt for a yr for that dream college.

    The thing to remember and place into consideration when accepting the scholarship if it means you need that money to attend is what will you do if you don't get SFT and are disenrolled from AFROTC as a rising jr. How will you pay the tuition at that time?

    Only 55% get SFT, and there are many that are scholarship recipients. It is an emotional killer and very stressful for the cadets. Traditionally this list also comes out at the worst time possible...mid-terms and about 6 weeks before finals, which can create an academic nightmare for them. If they know that they can afford to stay at the school, it relieves one stress. If they are worried that they have to transfer to a new school or maybe contract with another branch (AROTC) than it creates more problems and takes time away from their studies.

    Talk to your parents or your kids about that WHAT IF prior to matriculating because a scholarship will not guarantee you remain in AFROTC.
     
  10. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I personally know 2 USAFA candidates this year that did not apply for AFROTC and I know another one that is a 3C at USAFA that did not apply for AFROTC.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    As I stated, there are those who don't, and I have met them. However, they are IMPO fools if they want to be in the AF, especially this yr where the AFA only plans to have an incoming class of 1050, down 300 from 2 yrs ago. 1050 is less than a 1 in 3 chance of getting the BFE. (3600 usually have noms = candidate).

    The other reason I think it is un-wise not to apply for the scholarship is because life happens. In my 4 yrs here on this site, every yr there is a poster as an appointee or a parent who in late spring/early summer or worse yet I-Day gets physically injured and becomes a "medical turnback". The ones with the AFROTC scholarship is able to attend college and stay on track. The ones without are left scrambling for the fall semester.

    On top of that issue, many appointees have 2nd thoughts about attending an SA. The scholarship is a safety net if finances are an issue. They can hold onto that scholarship for a long time.

    We do not want to think about the bad, but those who are proactive will, and that makes a difference.

    Some do not apply because the AF is their back up and opt to apply for other scholarships. Some do not apply because LOA's come out in the early fall, and if they get a nom., there is no need to apply for a scholarship since they have essentially a guaranteed apptmt.

    Finally, as stated earlier you can drag that horse, but you can't make them drink. I wonder if you know so many personally in your area if the ALO is an issue. I hate saying anything negative against ALO's, but it appears there is a pattern. Our DS's ALO, and the 2 ALO's I know here on this site stress having a Plan B, AFROTC scholarship is that plan. For AFA candidates, typically their ALO will be their interviewer or was for 07/08, so for the candidates it does not require more interviews, it just requires paperwork.
     
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I am not going to blame the ALO as it is the kids responsibility.

    Honestly, there are some that are willing to serve in the AF in exchange for a USAFA education but otherwise they are not interested. Same is true for USMA and USNA.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not in disagreement Packer, and that is why I stated the horse comment and the applying to the AFA as their plan B.

    ALO's cannot and should not force them, because it is not their life.

    I was just saying that many, many of the AFA candidates that want to be in the AF will apply AFROTC as plan B.

    I guess I should have placed the caveat that 95% of the AFA candidates who want to be in the AF will apply for AFROTC.

    Honestly, I still cannot understand why people will say I want to serve in any branch. Every branch has unique positive and negative attributes not only regarding career fields, but also lifestyle.

    AF is known as the "corporate" branch, duty days are 8-4 for non-rated, and even for rated when they are not flying. They are seen as the prima donna's because they have never "roughed" it like the Army or the Navy. Roughing it to them is sleeping in a Motel 6 :shake: for a few weeks.

    I can't see how someone is willing to be on a boat 6 months out of 18 months if they hate the water.

    I can't see how someone is willing to go into the Army if they don't want to camp.

    Naive, I know, but that is how I break it down. Accepting a scholarship to any branch for ROTC equates into 4 yrs AD in that world. Think about it because each branch is unique when it comes to career fields within that branch.
     
  14. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    And I'm sure some feel so confident about their application, and are young enough to still feel immortal, that they don't bother with the ROTC application. :eek: Not wise, but I'm sure there are cases of this.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree many applicants believe they are the best thing since hot slice bread.

    That is also where the ALO can step in and say, guess what I have a dozen applicants for the AFA, and the congressman will have 2,3 or more ALO's in their district. You need a nom for an SA, but not for the ROTC scholarship.

    Honestly, if they don't want to apply and can afford to throw that money away, good on them. They may be applying to SA's and not ROTC because of the "elite" issue. I respect and get it, but I do not believe they are the majority, I believe they are the minority.
     

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