Obama to End Military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Roman, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. Roman

    Roman Member

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  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You and Obama have opened Pandora's box.

    I have a godmother who is gay. I love her very much, she lost her life partner of 27 yrs ly the day before NJ allowed civil marriages.

    I have two issues with homosexuals in the military.

    1. We as a nation have not come to terms or any agreement upon same sex civil unions. This creates a problem for medical coverage and accompanied tours (i.e. housing BAH w/dep or w/out...TLA? DLA? etc). How can you cover one mate from a state that acknowledges the union and not from another? (Last time I checked CA couldn't get prop 8 passed.

    2. As much as we want to keep the elephant out of the room, we must acknowledge that there are very young military members who for religious beliefs or their own reasons will not feel comfortable rooming with a homosexual. Do we have quarters now segregated?

    I truly have no dog in this fight, Bullet is long gone, and our DS knows of my cousin/g*dmothers homosexuality...I know that he personally doesn't care (flat out asked him). To me it is truly logistics...until we as a nation resolve the issue, the military should stay on the side lines and not be taking the lead.
     
  3. averx615

    averx615 Candidate

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    I think that it should just be left alone. If service men and women are forced into outing themselves, it will just make everyone unconfortable. I think that this a a mistake. Period.

    I agree, sidelines only.
     
  4. ds52262

    ds52262 Member

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    Simply put this is a mistake. A recent AF Times article pointed out that 60+ percent (don't remember the exact number) do not support this action. This will cause considerable distress, and added burdens on the members of the military.

    I am not spoiling for a fight I just know from my service this is wrong. It will be done for two reasons 1. political payback to Obama's special interest and 2. because the military will follow orders.

    I served with many homosexuals during my 20+ years. Most were excellent people, and the last thing they ever wanted was to make an issue of their sexuality. It only becomes an issue when the individual forces it on everyone else. When that happens the destruction of discipline and good order immediately follow. It will fracture the effectiveness of a unit faster then almost anything short of sleeping with another squadmembers significant other.

    I know the enlightened class will not agree, and it won't matter. Just remember intolerance cuts both ways, and eventually people will stop talking past each other. That is when the worst will happen.
     
  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I have a few differing views, and see some merit in different sides.

    First, as a cadet I trained a female who was very very impressive. She was prior enlisted, did a great job, was a great shipmate to her classmates and fellow swabs, did what we asked, never complained, and knew her job. She was great. Somehow it come up, and instead of lying, she told the truth with the understanding that she would have to leave....and she left. She didn't blame the Coast Guard for enforcing what they must enforce. We lost someone who would have been a great Coastie, someone who wanted to serve.

    While I say that, I understand the comment about berthing, if males and females can't berth together, who should homosexual males? (at least that how the argument is going). You also have to have a system to protect people who "come out" not only because some people may have a problem with that, but some coworkers may feel betrayed by them.

    I don't think it is an overstatement to say that you can't just "drop that bomb" on the military without working out some of those areas.

    Those are my personal opinions. There are homosexuals in the military, so many people already work with them, all the time, but there are some things the "higher ups" would have to work through.
     
  6. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Let's just say that the CoC prevents me from saying what I think about this topic. :mad:
     
  7. jscam87

    jscam87 Member

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    Candidates especially might learn something early with Zaphods response. As a civilian you can say whatever you want, whenever, wherever, ad infinititum, ad nausium.
    If the President makes a policy, that is it. No debate if you have taken the Oath.
    If you are in a position to do so, you can vote with your feet, but that is about your only way to not support the President.
    I am NOT trying to squash anyone with an opinion.

    I AM trying to point out an example that future Service Academy and ROTC candidates might consider.
    Go ZAPHOD!
     
  8. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    There is a BIG difference between an Obama staffer saying DADT will be repealed and it actually happening. There is a lot of political maneuvering that needs to occur before that could happen.


    We are free to voice opinions on policy. Just don't say anything offensive toward elected officials/higher ups or make statements that could be construed as comming from the military/gov. I am fine in stating my opinion that the KC-X program should have been figured out by now, even though the upper leadership is leaving further work to the next administration.

    I think the change would take some adjustments, but many people no longer hold the negative views of homosexuals that existed even 10 years ago.

    Personally, I don't care, as long as it does not damage the performance of the unit. There are homosexuals in the military right now, and I don't think they are any less capable of doing their jobs than anyone else.
     
  9. unitedstatesAFA2013

    unitedstatesAFA2013 Candidate Appointee

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    raimius, I wish more people would see it like you do. People shouldn't get fired from what they want to do because of their sexual orientation. They're not asking them to come out, just not get fired if found out.
     
  10. dychang

    dychang Member

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    It is just wrong!!!!
     
  11. Emsa

    Emsa Member

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    I havnt posted on this forum before just a couple of times on CC but this topic is very close to me. I think the end to this horrible policy cannot come soon enough.

    My brother all his life wanted to be a soldier, we spent our early years on AF bases in various locations but despite that he was army mad. He was a typical boy growing up, played baseball, ran, flag football great in school and set his sights on the USMA, I have no doubt he would have got in he ticked every box. When he was 17 he came out and though it was a shock for mum and me he was still him and there was never any doubt we would love him just as surely.

    He thought so long and hard while he was going through his West Point app process about whether he would be able to be the kind of officer he wanted to be in an environment where he always had to hide a part of who he was, after taking a lot of councel and thinking lots he decided that being gay was part and parcel of who he was and if the army couldnt accept that he couldnt hide it. Determined to be a soldier he moved to the UK (our mother is British) where he knew he could serve openly. After a few years of college and gaining residency he is starting his training at Sandhurst hopefull in May, at the moment he is set on joining the Royal Regiment of Scotland but he has the first half of his course to think on it. He loves britain, loves the British Army with its amazing history and wonderful traditions and he knows he will always be on the right side of any fight but I know he would have loved to serve in the US Army. Maybe he could have if only this had happened a few years ago :(
     
  12. The Commissioner

    The Commissioner Retired Staff Member Founding Member

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    Just for my own amusement, I've been informally polling Marines I am stationed with. These folks are mostly NCO's at the Staff Sergeant rank and above. In effect, the people who run the Marine Corps.

    Based on comments I hear, the Law of Unintended Consequences will color the reaction to an abolition of the DADT policy. Although they all admit that they are serving with gays and lesbians now, they are not ready for same sex couples dancing at the Marine Corps Ball among other things. The consensus opinion is the Commander-in-Chief has bigger issues than letting uniformed gays serve openly that deserve and demand his full attention.
     
  13. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    This is true.

    What is interesting though are that many opinions expresses are the same that were expressed years ago, first when the services were integrated and second when women were able to join and eventually be admitted to the service academies.
    Take out gays/lesbians and insert "blacks" or "women" and there you have it.
     
  14. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Can't speak for racial segregation, but females being integrated is a bit easier when you can separate males and females by rooms and bathrooms. This issue takes some more thinking to solve.
     
  15. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    I'm waiting for the lawsuit demanding that they be allowed to cross-dress in uniform. :rolleyes:

    Go ahead. Laugh now. But when it happens I'll be the one laughing.... or maybe crying. Not sure which.
     
  16. J Collins

    J Collins Founding Member

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    OHHHH my....

    ((shaking my head))

    I'd really prefer not to think about that!
     
  17. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    You and I both.

    Believe me, I HOPE I'm proven wrong, but I won't be. Give it time. :frown:
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Can we all spell A-C-L-U?

    The case will be up there right away followed by transgender operations.

    The only thing that may or may not cause a problem is very conservative religious people who believe for moral reasons that homosexuality is a sin. Do they start sending questionnaires out for dorm assignments fro every new enlisted member? I am not saying anything for either side, but there are people in this world that believe whole-heartedly that homosexuality is against their fundamental beliefs, so if they are forced to live with a homosexual, wouldn't that create unneeded stress and strain, which would undermine troop cohesion in the workplace and in living quarters.

    I said it before and will say it again...until our nation can solve the answer the military should not be the test guinea pigs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  19. NativeTexan

    NativeTexan Member

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    What is just wrong? Changing the policy or homosexuality?

    Raimius is totally right on. Time to move on and allow all Americans the opportunity to serve America and her people. Those who feel differently - would you quite your job because you had to share an office and a restroom with a gay? Do you not think that those who are gay and want to serve also know what appropriate behavior is in the work force?
     
  20. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    In the military, you share a LOT more than an office and a restroom. In some cases you actually share a bunk. Totally different than Corporate America.

    Besides, if gays are allowed to roam the shower oggling those who turn them on, then I want the ACLU to file a lawsuit demanding the heterosexuals be able to do the same through the facilities of the opposite sex. Fair is fair, right?

    Asking if gays know about appropriate behavior.....

    Oh, man...... I'd better sign off before I have to ban myself. :yllol:
     

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