Off-campus party houses?

LineInTheSand said:
Something tells me the lawyers of said parents/sponsors of these adults (because midshipmen are adults) would have something to say about parents or sponsors being held liable for "party houses". Let El Commandante know he's not the mayor of Annapolis... he just has a small bit of the land for his school (and he's not even in charge of that).
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The comm can't win.

I see a scenario of parents suing the academy for not informing them of their potential liabilities facilitating house parties if they got sued.

If I was a parent with a child in SA, I will be appreciative of the SA informing of situations that my actions could potentially get my child in trouble (i.e. I sign a lease and pay for a house for my child to "relax" with friends, my child gets caught, my child gets punished or even expelled. The SA doesn't have come after me as they have no direct control over what I do, but my child is under their direct control)
 
LITS you are missing the point completely- this isn't the Commandant threatening parents- it 's a simple statement of reality. A parent who signed one of those leases to be used by their kid or by anyone else as a party/ crash pad is absolutely going to face potential civil law suits for what went on in their leased property. Doesn't matter whether the kid is an adult or not- if they signed the lease- they have a responsibility under the law for the property and all that goes on in it. The parents who are lawyers are going to know that- the rest will be sadly surprised if they were dumb enough to put their name as the lease holder on a place that they have no means of controlling.
 
bruno said:
LITS you are missing the point completely- this isn't the Commandant threatening parents- it 's a simple statement of reality. A parent who signed one of those leases
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Yeah, I don't believe that. These aren't 16 year old high school drinkers. They may be underaged, but they're not children and they're not dependants. My wife went to URI. Students rented houses "down the line." I don't doubt some of those rentals were paid for by parents. I have never heard of a parent or the owner being held liable for the actions of the adult tenants.

I just don't buy it.

1. I doubt the Commandant has argued this case in a court.
2. I doubt the Commandant's JAGs have argued this case in a court.

Here's a suggestion.... get better control of your people. You have rules... enforce them. Don't put the focus on the outside world... put it in the individuals with the uniforms on. The supposed "best and brightest" society has to offer. Take ownership.


Or pass the buck...
 
LineInTheSand said:
Here's a suggestion.... get better control of your people. You have rules... enforce them. Don't put the focus on the outside world... put it in the individuals with the uniforms on. The supposed "best and brightest" society has to offer. Take ownership.


Or pass the buck...
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I think the Comm might be trying to be practical. What's the best way to prevent or limit party houses? It is already against the rules. Any mid can chime in on what the punishment is, but can't expel every mid that breaks rules (personally I favor zero tolerance on many things, but can't start a class with 1200 and kick out several hundred for rules violations. It is not practical and I do believe in second chances). My guess is that leases are expansive, so stop the flow of the money from the parents.
 
MemberLG said:
I think the Comm might be trying to be practical. What's the best way to prevent or limit party houses? It is already against the rules. Any mid can chime in on what the punishment is, but can't expel every mid that breaks rules (personally I favor zero tolerance on many things, but can't start a class with 1200 and kick out several hundred for rules violations. It is not practical and I do believe in second chances). My guess is that leases are expansive, so stop the flow of the money from the parents.
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So the Comm can't figure out how to make 19-23 year olds do something, but he expects an email to 50+ year old white upper middle class adults to do the trick.

I can save him the trouble of trying to figure out how successful that approach will be!
 
Best way to empty the house...

When a mid party is too obnoxious, a call to the police with a complaint gets a response. But when the officers that respond are from USNA instead, you get to see the results of PT as people jump fences etc.

Amusing as a local to watch periodically happen in DTA.
 
MemberLG said:
I think the Comm might be trying to be practical. What's the best way to prevent or limit party houses? It is already against the rules. Any mid can chime in on what the punishment is, but can't expel every mid that breaks rules (personally I favor zero tolerance on many things, but can't start a class with 1200 and kick out several hundred for rules violations. It is not practical and I do believe in second chances). My guess is that leases are expansive, so stop the flow of the money from the parents.
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If one makes rules clear, enforces them religiously and evenly, there won't be several hundred being kicked out. They will respect the rules. When rules are kinda,sorta,sometimes enforced . . well you know how much respect that gets.
 
Packer said:
If one makes rules clear, enforces them religiously and evenly, there won't be several hundred being kicked out. They will respect the rules. When rules are kinda,sorta,sometimes enforced . . well you know how much respect that gets.
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Don't get me wrong, as I agree with LITS and you. I was just providing a possible rational for the Comm's action.
 
MemberLG said:
I think the Comm might be trying to be practical. What's the best way to prevent or limit party houses? It is already against the rules. Any mid can chime in on what the punishment is, but can't expel every mid that breaks rules (personally I favor zero tolerance on many things, but can't start a class with 1200 and kick out several hundred for rules violations. It is not practical and I do believe in second chances). My guess is that leases are expansive, so stop the flow of the money from the parents.
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One phone call from the Comm to Coach N. telling him that he and security will be visiting the house this evening and I guarantee there'd be no one home. Maybe us normal adults have little control but coaches certainly do. Of course Coach N would talk the Comm into delaying the visit until after the bowl game. :rolleyes:
 
Concur with LITS... the bottom line is if parents decide to rent a house for whatever reason that is their decision. It is their responsibility to understand the laws and risks associated with that rental. If their Mid is not adhering to the rules, that is between them and between the Dant and that Mid.

The funny part is the football team has more coaches, O Reps and staff then any team out there (and yes they are the largest team). The football team used to have 2 senior O Reps and 1 full time Marine Captain assigned to the team to handle these types of matters. Not sure if they still do, but I think they do. The Capt is generally a former player 4-6 years removed from being a player themself... they know exactly what goes on. He is there for these exact kinds of things such as academics, conduct, honor, PRTs, in the hall stuff. They get into the weeds, not like the Senior O Reps do. No doubt he is not there to babysit Mids, because they should not have to be. These are future officers and if they can't figure out how to conduct themselves, then good riddance, the time to find out is now. Come down hard, swift and consistent on the Brigade for these things and the attitude will change.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Yeah, I don't believe that. These aren't 16 year old high school drinkers. They may be underaged, but they're not children and they're not dependants. My wife went to URI. Students rented houses "down the line." I don't doubt some of those rentals were paid for by parents. I have never heard of a parent or the owner being held liable for the actions of the adult tenants.

I just don't buy it.
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Drinking and causing a nuisance by adults in the rental or those under 21 will face consequences by local law enforcement (jail time and fines). In some Cities, nuisance laws extend to lease holders, so parents can be fined and the landlord, who can also be fined, if the house becomes a nuisance in the community (Nuisance Laws kick in usually after several rounds of loud parties, underage drinking etc. where police are called to the property on numerous occaisions)
 
sook said:
Drinking and causing a nuisance by adults in the rental or those under 21 will face consequences by local law enforcement (jail time and fines). In some Cities, nuisance laws extend to lease holders, so parents can be fined and the landlord, who can also be fined, if the house becomes a nuisance in the community (Nuisance Laws kick in usually after several rounds of loud parties, underage drinking etc. where police are called to the property on numerous occaisions)
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Quick! Is this true in Annapolis (it's Maryland, which errors on the side of making my life suck, but not at the expense of my dirtball neighbors).
 
I appreciate the effort the school made by sending that letter out to parents. I would want to know. I would never rent a house or let someone use a vehicle if I was not present to monitor the activities. I am way too concerned about my civil liabiliity. IF something bad happens at one of those party houses you can bet that some smart attorney would include the renter in a civil lawsuit.
 
JMC0759 said:
I appreciate the effort the school made by sending that letter out to parents. I would want to know. I would never rent a house or let someone use a vehicle if I was not present to monitor the activities. I am way too concerned about my civil liabiliity. IF something bad happens at one of those party houses you can bet that some smart attorney would include the renter in a civil lawsuit.
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Dumb lawyers might too.

Are you telling me that your kids only drive your car when you're in it?

But I also agree, I sure as heck would not send my kid to a service academy, and then turn around and also rent a place for them to hang out in... NOPE! :thumbdown:
 
LineInTheSand said:
But I also agree, I sure as heck would not send my kid to a service academy, and then turn around and also rent a place for them to hang out in... NOPE! :thumbdown:
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Personally I wouldn't do it either, but there are times when I just can't say no to my DDs . . .
 
LineInTheSand said:
Dumb lawyers might too.

Are you telling me that your kids only drive your car when you're in it?

But I also agree, I sure as heck would not send my kid to a service academy, and then turn around and also rent a place for them to hang out in... NOPE! :thumbdown:
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My kids can drive my cars because they are on my insurance policy. I don't let the neighborhood kids jump on our trampoline, would not have a diving board on my pool if I had one, and would certainly not attach my name to a rental house where adults I don't know are going to have a party.
 
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