Out of Annapolis Movie

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by NativeTexan, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. NativeTexan

    NativeTexan Member

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  2. Antoinette

    Antoinette Founding Member

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  3. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Well, with Obama commenting on getting rid of the "don't ask - don't tell" and making the military open to any sexuality, this topic was bound to come up.
     
  4. Antoinette

    Antoinette Founding Member

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    The producers of the movie have perfect timing.

    After watching the trailer, I think it will be a well done documentary.
     
  5. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    ^^^^

    That was my thought too.
     
  6. J Collins

    J Collins Founding Member

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    Just curious... opinions...... was it wrong for them to attend the Academy knowing the policies of the DOD ??
     
  7. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Wrong for whom? Wrong for those who at the age of 17 or 18 had never had a sexual experience and didn't know they were gay?

    DADT does allow for gay people to serve as long as they dont' "tell" anyone - in their professional or private life. Some people are good at celibacy and others - not so good.
    I think you are going to have to define "them" for me.
     
  8. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Like JAM said, it was ok for them to attend. Regardless of whether or not they knew about their sexual orientation before entering, DADT does not exclude them from serving, it just means living a secret life.
     
  9. J Collins

    J Collins Founding Member

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    Oops.. I didnt choose the right words...

    I understand DADT, but if you do tell what happens? Are you removed from the service and if so why? Is it against USMJ to "come out"..

    And if they attend the academy then "come out" how do they serve their term commitment? (that's what I meant to say) or are there reprocussions?.

    I know several females that served USAF.. having that "secret life" was difficult on them, but they stuck with it, served and retired. They even dated men on occasion to make it look like they were not Lesbians.
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    If you "come out" at an academy, you are disenrolled. It is "honorable" with a code so you cannot rejoin. This does happen from time to time. If you come out at an academy, at this time, you have no future serving in the U.S. military.
     
  11. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    A major problem then lies with if you come out and receive your honorable discharge, one can never serve out their obligation. How does the Military ever prove that the coming out was truthful? If one can suddenly decide they are gay (if you believe it is a choice) one can just as easily decide after the honorable discharge that they had made a wrong choice. Seems like it could be used for "other agendas."

    Just a thought....
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Yea; during your months of leave after graduating, you "Come Out". You get your college degree, an honorable discharge, no service obligation, then move on to another job. And then get married heterosexually a year later and have 2 kids. YUP; definitely room for this to blow up.

    There's really only 2 options.
    a) Make sexual preference/activity a non issue. No DADT. Simply make it where it doesn't matter at all. This however will bring on certain social problems in the military. You can teach all the "Tolerance" you want, but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be certain social problems. The same thing happened initially with allowing Blacks to integrate into the military. There were problems. Obviously, there are still some racial problems, but they don't even compare to 50 years ago. They don't even compare to 10 years ago. And the don't even compare to our society in general today. There are some problems, but nothing like in the "Real World". The problem is, sexual preference is still a value that the vast majority of the country considers HETEROSEXUALITY to be the NORM and HOMOSEXUALITY to be wrong. Doesn't matter what you teach or condition people; this is what they believe as the majority. So if they want, they can go through the same lumps that integrating Blacks caused, and just deal with it.

    b) The 2nd choice is to just make HOMOSEXUALITY unacceptable in the military. That is definitely an option that can be defended. And because it's societal, it is something that can be re-addressed every so many years. The problem with this choice is that certain homosexual advocates will have to commit to certain premises. I.e. "Most" advocates believe that sexual preference is something you are BORN with. Therefor, there would never be an excuse for someone enlisting or coming to the academy and claiming later on that they were gay. According to most advocates, you already knew this. Therefor, a "dishonorable" discharge would be warranted. Now I DON'T want to hear anyone saying that people didn't know they were gay at 18 years old. The gay advocates, in defense of gays/lesbians, say they were born this way. As such, it is an issue that you discovered during puberty. Or at least an issue you NEED TO CONFRONT prior to enlisting or applying to the academy. For the advocates to argue this, would require them to change their position and say that it "COULD" in fact be a "Learned Behavior". That would open up a whole other can of worms with the "Socially Acceptable" crowd.

    Pretty tough choice either way you go. But you can't have it both ways.
     
  13. Emsa

    Emsa Member

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    Agreed on the not knowing but also probably its often the case that the theory of just not telling anyone may seem more doable than the reality proves to be. Especially if you desperately want to attend a service academy and have a military career. Many people probably genuinely belive they can uphold their half of the DADT bargain when they sign the dotted line but ultimately cannot.


    I would never pass judgement on these women for making the decisions they did because thier jobs depended on it but at the end of the day they were lying, everytime they dated a man to make it look like they were not lesbains they were living out a lie and many people have a personal sense of honor that will not allow them to do this. The two Mids in the HA article Joe Steffan and Tommy Watkins both had the opportunity to lie, neither did because both their beleif in the honor code and their personal sense of honor would not allow them to. This system punishes those with honor and protects those who lie.
     
  14. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    moral decisions are very tough for some people. The one person that impressed me with a moral decision, even though I could NEVER HAVE DONE IT, was a girl I worked with. She had become a Jehovah Witness. Nothing wrong with that. However; part of their lifestyle/creed is that they don't believe in serving in the military. She had a little over 17 years in the Air Force. All she had to do was go 2 more years and she could have retired with full benefits. Instead, she took the moral decision; explained to our commander and military personnel office; and requested a discharge. She gave up 17+ years without any compensation or financial benefits. (She was still authorized va loans, education, etc... - however said she wouldn't use or apply for such benefits.) Considering she gave up 17+ years and a retirement, I am pretty sure she wouldn't take the other benefits. Anyway; some people actually have principles and morals that they will live by. Some don't.
     

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