past marijuana use

[JMC0759]

Marijuana Use

I also take exception to the statement made by bjschick that most college kids have tried drugs. I have been a police officer in a town with a large campus of the University of Texas system and several community colleges for over thirty years. Most of our drug arrests, and there are many, don't come from college kids. And, I have never heard of a drug arrest involving the large ROTC contingent here. I am not fooling myself, I know that drug use among college kids happens here but statistically drug arrests are outside of these schools. I have three kids involved in sports and they have never used drugs and nobody that they associate with uses drugs. Making blanket statements like the one you made are misleading. Who the heck are you hanging around with?

 

[futureAFA]

I agree, although if you really haven't ever used drugs I feel like it may put you at a disadvantage because honestly, who's to say you aren't lying besides yourself? The biggest thing for a future officer is that they are willing to accept responsibility for their mistakes and learn from them. Most people have used one kind of drug or another. If you have spent time in college as I have, you will have been exposed to everything from marijuana to extacy to cocaine. I managed not to use drugs of any kind but I think they are going to look at my application and be like "yeah right."

I highly doubt they are going to say anything like “yeah right.” If I am on admissions and I see a kid who is highly involved with EC’s I will say with confidence he never did, or has done drugs if he said he didn’t. Saying statistically most teens have done drugs doesn’t exactly correlate to the general population that apply’s for SA’s. The majority of people who do drugs are not in the top 15% of their schools, varsity letterman, captains, and score very high on SAT’s, and thats not even to mention that they are applying to a school with a strict honor code and a no tolerance policy of drugs. People who go to a SA generally DONT do drugs, and it is wrong and degrading to say so. To go to a SA you live by integrity. Drugs are a no-no just check the threads that are about people being kicked out/punished severely for being caught doing “spice".

 

[bjschick]

futureAFA - you're right, those applying to USAFA live by a different code. It's seems that I have offended many on this thread and I assure you that was not my intent.

My comments were based on my experience that drug use is widespread, which is one reason why I took a year off from college and am applying the the USAFA. Sorry to anyone I offended, despite what it may appear, I did not try to tarnish the reputation of the USAFA, I want to attend there more than anything else and the last thing I want to do is insult their reputation.

And futureAFA, I am from the MA 7th District too, I got my noms from Kerry and Markey. What are you doing to prep for the Academy?

 

[Christcorp]

futureAFA - you're right, those applying to USAFA live by a different code. It's seems that I have offended many on this thread and I assure you that was not my intent.

My comments were based on my experience that drug use is widespread, which is one reason why I took a year off from college and am applying the the USAFA. Sorry to anyone I offended, despite what it may appear, I did not try to tarnish the reputation of the USAFA, I want to attend there more than anything else and the last thing I want to do is insult their reputation.

And futureAFA, I am from the MA 7th District too, I got my noms from Kerry and Markey. What are you doing to prep for the Academy?

Bjschick; I think everyone understands where you're coming from. But not knowing your complete past, I think it would be safe for me to say, that at roughly 20 years old, that your small corner of the world in Massachusetts, doesn't come close to whether drug use is widespread throughout the rest of the country. Maybe it's widespread in your state. But I assure you that that isn't the norm. Especially among most of the individuals who apply to the service academies. Are there some? sure. Is it "Widespread"? Apparently from applicants/cadets from Massachusetts. I think that is all people are trying to say. Your experiences are most likely very isolated; and therefor your opinion isn't quite accurate.

 

[bjschick]

Bjschick; I think everyone understands where you're coming from. But not knowing your complete past, I think it would be safe for me to say, that at roughly 20 years old, that your small corner of the world in Massachusetts, doesn't come close to whether drug use is widespread throughout the rest of the country. Maybe it's widespread in your state. But I assure you that that isn't the norm. Especially among most of the individuals who apply to the service academies. Are there some? sure. Is it "Widespread"? Apparently from applicants/cadets from Massachusetts. I think that is all people are trying to say. Your experiences are most likely very isolated; and therefor your opinion isn't quite accurate.

That's fair. Good to know most of the US is not like MA haha.

 

[Farleigh85]

I tried marijuana about a year ago and admitted it on the application. I received an appointment in November, so it obviously didn't hurt me too much. As long as you didn't do anything more than you're fine. I almost feel like admitting to it can help you, because they're looking for integrity at the Academy. You're standing out from the vast majority of kids who will deny having ever smoked it even though, statistically, most have. As long as you make it clear that that's ALL you did and you'll never do it again you don't need to sweat it

Interesting angle, and I'm not necessarily disputing it. However, it implies that the aspiring cadet who did NOT use illegal drugs and truthfully denied doing so on the admission application might well be suspected of lying simply because "statistically, most have." It also implies that the drug offender has more integrity and is a superior candidate than the non-offender. If so, how terribly unfair to the honorable and honest young man or woman who never experimented or used.

 

[futureAFA]

futureAFA - you're right, those applying to USAFA live by a different code. It's seems that I have offended many on this thread and I assure you that was not my intent.

My comments were based on my experience that drug use is widespread, which is one reason why I took a year off from college and am applying the the USAFA. Sorry to anyone I offended, despite what it may appear, I did not try to tarnish the reputation of the USAFA, I want to attend there more than anything else and the last thing I want to do is insult their reputation.

And futureAFA, I am from the MA 7th District too, I got my noms from Kerry and Markey. What are you doing to prep for the Academy?

I’m applying for 2017 And compared to the other states MA has relatively little drug use I’m guessing. The people who do it aren’t exactly hiding it either most of the time at least in my town.

 

[Casey]

That's fair. Good to know most of the US is not like MA haha.

As my 2 cents, I'm in MA, and its definitly not like there isn't drugs at my school, but I wouldn't say that its something that's really widespread or something like you were making it out to be. I've never touched anything but then again, I'm also one of those kids that doesn't drink or do any of that since I would like to hold myself to a higher standard. If you find the right friends, you'll find the kids who want to do that too and it really helps

 

[ps92]

Some of you say past drug use comes up for clearances. Can you explain further? I can't imagine the admissions board being more lenient, letting in kids whose desired career will perhaps unexpectedly dead-end once they need to start getting clearances. What is the criteria for getting clearance? Ill be honest, I've smoked marijuana since I got to college. I'm curious what the cutoff point is for clearances: how much, or how recently? And are these guidelines the same for every branch? After reading this thread, I'm rather concerned about my dream career.. aviation in the coast guard.

 

[tonk002]

New Hampshire: Live Free or Die. Drug use is by no means rampant in the Granite State but it surely exists in schools. At my school its used by some, just like at nearly all other schools in the United States. Ive never used drugs, but its a popular issue in NH, where they are trying to get pot legalized.

And lets be real: its pot. Some of you smoked it. Good Idea, probably not. But its really not the end of the world.

 

[-Bull-]

Some of you say past drug use comes up for clearances. Can you explain further? I can't imagine the admissions board being more lenient, letting in kids whose desired career will perhaps unexpectedly dead-end once they need to start getting clearances. What is the criteria for getting clearance? Ill be honest, I've smoked marijuana since I got to college. I'm curious what the cutoff point is for clearances: how much, or how recently? And are these guidelines the same for every branch? After reading this thread, I'm rather concerned about my dream career.. aviation in the coast guard.

I'm not positive for SA's, but for ROTC you must be drug free for 6 months to contract.

 

[Pima]

Reality check time.

You just admitted to breaking the law recently. The fact is your dream goal is to fly for the military...get a flipping speeding ticket on base and you will be standing at attention in front of your commander's desk.

Smoking pot is not even close to speeding on base.

The fact is they do random drug testing...they basically pull numbers out of a hat...people with the last 4 digits between XXXX and XXXX must report for a urine test.

This is not something you want to mess with.

Additionally, the clearance to get into an SA is a much lower bar set than the clearance you go through to raise your right hand to take the oath at commissioning. That clearance is even less than what you go through for aviation.

To impress upon you how intense that security clearance is for aviation, it costs approx $10K. They comb through your financials, your friends, your life. It takes months to get a TS clearance...aviators need TS.

When Bullet was up for his commissioning. I (not even engaged yet) was pulled into my profs. office. He sat me down and asked point blank can you explain to me why I got a call about you regarding security classification? Bullet had stated we were dating in his interview. I was dumbfounded because I didn't have a clue.

His 2 best buds that were not tied to the AF at all, also were interviewed.

Yes, many kids experiment. However, once committed you need to knock it off.

I am actually shocked about the admittance of doing pot in college. At our kids schools, they can tell you they run the opposite direction if people are smoking pot. It is an automatic grounds for expulsion. Both will tell you that at their 2 different schools, in 2 different states during their freshman yr, people got kicked out. Both attend college as big as UGA.


Also, here's something that people really need to pound into their cranium...no forum is anonymous. There are people who join just to get an insight look. We have a great friend who is a very high up person in the AF, he belongs to groups on FB to get back door entry on perspective personnel..

Just join one FB group...i.e. Class of AFA 15 and they can now see everything about you. They can view your pics and comments written by your BFFs. If this friend is doing that and is not involved with security clearances, bet your bottom dollar the people who do security clearances also are doing it. Again when it comes to flying military aircraft, they take a deep look into your history...we joke that they even know what brand of underwear Bullet wears. Granted he is much older and his clearance is high up there, but I think you get the point. You will be able to access military info, they want to make sure you are worthy. Drug use recently is a big flag!

You are not 16 at a hs football game. You are at least 18, probably 19, and they expect more maturity from you re: decision making. Knock it off NOW! Understand NOW that your actions have an impact on your future/

Plus, most people leave an internet trail, especially when it comes to monikers. They use the same moniker for all of their forums typically, or at least a play on it.

PS92...my guess is that you were born in 1992, and your initials are PS. That's a guess, and I could be 1000% off the mark, but let's pretend it is. How many candidates do you think are out there right now who want to fly CG aviation and attend UGA that are re-applying for the CGA? Very few.

Look at this site, you have to my count...
1 AFA ALO
1 or 2 USNA BGOs
1 Flight Surgeon
2 AROTC officers

That is just the top of my cranium. You just informed them that you have recently smoked pot in COLLEGE. while you are trying to re-apply for CGA.

Not saying any of them will track you down, but now the question to you is what if there is a CGA administrator that lurks here? You just shot yourself in the foot by saying in college you smoked pot, and you told them you are at UGA, which is IS for you AND your are a freshman who applied ly.

Again, how many GA applicants do you think CGA gets from UGA that applied ly? To me you are probably their one and only.

I wish you the best. I hope I scared you silly and you get the gravity of smoking pot in college.

 

[vamom]

I'll add my two cents here......I had a very best friend (a boy) in high school who was super smart, full scholarship ROTC at a top military college, retired from his military career a VERY high ranking officer. Back to the story....about 7 years after high school graduation, I had been married for less than a year and had taken a personal day from work to have some dental work done. When I pulled into my driveway, there was an unmarked "K car" sitting there. Two gentlemen got out, showed ID, confirmed that I was indeed an old high school friend of "Army Man" and asked if they could come inside to talk with me. Long story short, 1 1/2 hours later they left. Questions:
Did Armyman ever do drugs?
Were you in any clubs/EC's with Armyman?
What was the general opinion of Armyman?
What type of kids did he hang around with?
ETC ETC ETC
Also, wanted to see any pics I had of Armyman and also wanted to see my high school yearbook. That was a bit "awkward" as Armyman was known for signing yearbooks in a bit of a bawdy way and yep, they read what he wrote.

Anyway, I share this because don't think even something as insignificant as how you sign a yearbook can't and won't come back to bite you in the arse.

BTW...Armyman got the clearance that was being vetted. We just discussed this little inicident at our 30th HS Reunion in October....I still wonder how those men knew that I would be at home in the middle of the day that day when normally I would have been at work! HMMMMM??????

 

[flieger83]

Some of you say past drug use comes up for clearances. Can you explain further? I can't imagine the admissions board being more lenient, letting in kids whose desired career will perhaps unexpectedly dead-end once they need to start getting clearances. What is the criteria for getting clearance? Ill be honest, I've smoked marijuana since I got to college. I'm curious what the cutoff point is for clearances: how much, or how recently? And are these guidelines the same for every branch? After reading this thread, I'm rather concerned about my dream career.. aviation in the coast guard.

I will say that which I think many folks here won't.

As a senior officer in the USAF and an ALO, I would ask a single question: "You state that you have smoked marijuana since you got to college. How many times?"

If your answer is: "I tried it at a party...once...and that was it" then I might say "okay, peer pressure, new environment, experimentation...I can "accept" this ONE TIME EVENT. And if everything else about you was "good, excellent, acceptable to any officer preparation program..." then I'd recommend you be considered.

However if your answer is: "I've tried it many times, it's common at my school/university/fraternity/insert your own answer here...but I really want to serve so I'm willing to not do it anymore..."

I DO NOT WANT YOU!

Since you're in college, I will make a guess that you're an adult (over 18). I have sat as a member at courts martial for defendants that were 18, 19, and older. They committed drug crimes...their name came up for a "golden flow check" which is the "slang" for a random drug test by urinalysis. They "glowed."

And at court martial, they were invariably found guilty, sentenced to reduction in rank, and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS (with only ONE exception in my career) to at least a BAD CONDUCT DISCHARGE. Those that were found, after the investigation, to have used/tried/experimented MORE than ONCE...quite often ended up with a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE. Try going through life with that on your record, forever, at age 19...it's HARSH.

If I sound "harsh" or "unlike the normal Flieger83" or anything else, I'm not sorry. This is a subject I have a great deal of emotion with. I lost a great friend from the USAF because he went to a concert with friends...and they all "tried" some "evil weed" just to see what the big deal was about. They weren't "users" or "heads" or anything else, its just that they were curious what all the "hubbub" was about.

Later that week...the USAF pulled their names for a drug test...because someone happened to see them at the concert and became suspicious.

And that ended their careers, their goals, their dreams...all because of a curious moment. And the kicker is...I was supposed to be there too. And we'd all discussed "what's the big deal? It's no worse than booze, or that's what our friends tell us..." I just happened to be ill that weekend...and I didn't go.

Would I have tried it? I don't know. I would like to believe there's no way I would have; it goes against all I was raised around, and my end-goal of flying in the USAF. But these were my best friends...

Using illegal drugs is a choice...and the rules/regulations of the military are there for a reason. To serve you must make a whole-hearted commitment to accept, live by, and perhaps DIE by those rules. If you can't, then you should seek another career.

To use drugs illegally is NOT compatible with service.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[Pima]

Flieger = SHACK

Here's my issue, and nothing more.

Kids in college do it. Kids believe that pot and pre-marital sex did not exist in their parents college days. They have the illusion it is like the internet and "popped up" after they were married and had kids.

SHOCKER KIDS...Condom usage went up because your parents lived in the day of AIDS coming on the scene. 1983 fear of AIDS was nightly news.

We also were kids, and everything you try to get away with, we did too!

Back on topic.

I have an issue with this for one reason:

One poster has stated that they are in college and re-trying to go to CGA. However, during this time period they broke the honor code by smoking pot.

That bothers me.

As you stated there is that fine line. One thing to be in hs. One thing to try 1x at college.

HOWEVER, another thing to go through the SA process in HS and now admit to doing it in college while trying for an SA again.

They know the rules, and nobody can tell me that after going through the SA process they didn't know smoking pot was a No No. Nobody.

 

[bjschick]

Pima has it right. In 25 years when people my age are leading the country everything we post on the internet is gonna come back to haunt us. I think i'm giving up the net for Lent.

 

[Boozebin]

Pima and Flieger hit it on the head…

I can understand making a mistake to a point but when I look back on my life I can’t really accept even one mistake… I grew up in the Bronx 80s during the biggest drug “crisis” in our time… There was a drug house TWO blocks from my house! When DEA hit the house they parked and got ready on MY block, right in front of my house!!! Guess what! The dealers were back at it TWO days later! My point is I was surrounded by it 24/7 and I never used once.

I understand we live in a different time now and I have to revisit my view and I can forgive the one time my bad use when you’re young but I can’t forgive the hey it didn’t affect me the first time I can do this a lot more… especially as you get older...and I don’t think our military should either… I don’t want the later in the military let alone MY Air Force… If you can’t stand up to your friends who can you stand up to?

Sorry went on a rant but this topic always seems to get me going I guess from all my past experiences… back on topic….

As for the security clearance (or anytime you’re asked for that matter) I suggest NEVER lie about it because I can guarantee it will come out… One of my friends happen to mention I had quite a few girlfriends when I was younger and most of the questions during my clearance interview surrounded around that… Yes that's right they drilled me about my sexual promiscuity which isn’t illegal so just imagine what they’ll ask about drug use…. just be prepared for them knowing more about your life than you do and you can’t really hide it from them… It’s their job to find out and they will and I respect them for it.

 

[Pima]

f you can’t stand up to your friends who can you stand up to?

Here here!

As an officer your job is to lead, not to be buddy buddy with those in your command.

I hope people get the differentiation.

 

[rayquad]

Just be honest. Its all about integrity

 

[Jcleppe]

I've read these posts and just had to chime in.

Young people looking toward the military need to realize something, You are about to start an adventure that you really have no idea where it will take you. You may be set on a certain path now only to find a more interesting one later.

If you don't mind I would like to share my experience.

When I decided to join the Coast Guard I thought I would be spending most of my time plucking drunk weekend sailors out of the water, this was what I wanted to do at the time. After a short time I had the opportunity to receive a commission which I gladly accepted. The next thing I new I was off to Wash. DC. Again an unexpected opportunity arose, I was detailed to the White House Protacol Office. That started a long security clearance ordeal which took several months. At the time I thought they had left no stone unturned.

Fast forward about a year, I was reassigned to the NSA. If you think a White House clearance is hard, you have no idea, it makes a TS look like a walk in the park. Again the time to receive the clearance took months. They talked to everyone, they found people I forgot I even knew and asked every question you can imagine.

I guess I was one of the odd high school student of the 70's because I had never tried drugs of any kind, I admitted to drinking beer with my friends (All of them interviewed I may add) and spent a great deal of time explaining every detail.

I enjoyed my time in the service and every field I was given the opportunity to work in.

My point is this, if I had ever used drugs, whether I admitted it or not I would have never received the clearances I did or had the opportunities offered to me. If you decide to make bad chioces you will have to live with them.

My last point is this, you have no idea what opportunities may present themselves in the future, don't limit yourself because you are curious about what that one joint will be like, trust me they will find out. Sometimes just owning up to your mistake will not be enough, the fact that you made the mistake in the first place will be enough to knock you out of the game.