Physical conditioning is priority at R-day-Beast

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by supreme1, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. supreme1

    supreme1 Member

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    Hello, Heard there were some cadedts sent hom (separated) during beast relative to inadequate physical standards (pull ups seemed to factor high0.. Any specifics on this. If true how many males/females.
     
  2. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    From what I have heard from CBT I cadre, the only people sent home were undiagnosed/un-reported medical conditions and extreme height/weight failures.
     
  3. lightfoot

    lightfoot Member

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    To add to what BigBear said, I've heard that if you had a height/weight issue, the amount, or lack of pull-ups, came into account. For example, if you were considered to be too far over, but could perform some pull-ups, then that helped your case. If you were overweight for your height and could not perform any pull ups, then they took that into account.
     
  4. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    Just curious... Is it common for cadets to show up not being able to perform at the level they submitted on their CFA forms?
     
  5. WestPoint2017

    WestPoint2017 Member

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    Situations like these strike a few nerves with somebody was QNS.
     
  6. DHinNH

    DHinNH USMA 1989

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    Rumors, not situation.
     
  7. trini1066

    trini1066 Member

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    Absolutely! Hope these rumors are just rumors.
     
  8. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    I'm at LTP for CBT II, and confirmed it with multiple CBT I Squad Leaders who are down a few New Cadets...
     
  9. nothingventurednothinggai

    nothingventurednothinggai Member

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    This makes absolutely no sense to me, so I suspect its wrong.

    I have a son at Beast. He writes little, but he passed his Fitness.

    West Point is not CFA. These are now Army members, and they take the Army Fitness. Its 2 mile, situps, and pushups, Basketball throw and pull ups are behind them. A 19 year old kid is not going to DQ an 18 year old kid for pull ups that are not in any Army standard. For Ranger, they have a pull up test. For West Point, they are simple privates who have a simple standard, and pull ups are not in it.

    From friends, all the way back to Absolutely American, yes, half the kids failed their first look at APFT, but nearly all will pass to the standard by the end of Beast, which is twice a year.....the first week of beast cannot possibly get you DQ'd for failing to meet a standard that doesn't exist.

    This rumor rings false.
     
  10. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Why does West Point (and USNA, USAFA, and USMMA for that matter) use one physical fitness entrance test for admission (CFA), and then a completely different test once you are in?

    Why are these fitness parameters (throwing a basketball, doing a pull-up, or a "shuttle" run) suddenly not important anymore.

    Makes much more sense to use the same test for admissions that they will have to meet once they are admitted, and that test should be the same test they will have to meet once they commission and are serving on active duty.
     
  11. DHinNH

    DHinNH USMA 1989

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    Its been quite a while since my Beast, but I only ever took one test that included throwing a basketball, and that was far away from West Point. In fact, although I have thrown a basketball since then, the shuttle run I did for the test during my senior year of HS was the last time I did a shuttle run.

    Why a different test? Not sure, but here are some thoughts:

    CFA is independent of institution while the tests used by the individual services differ. CFA provides "one stop shopping" for candidates applying to different institutions. (At least somewhat analagous to SAT and ACT serving as common measures on the academic side.)

    With a greater number of events, CFA provides the opportunity for greater differentiation among candidates. That's helpful in admissions process but less necessary after admission.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  12. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    Army H/W standard for initial entry:
    http://www.army.mil/article/84224

    That's the standard :rolleyes:
     
  13. 845something

    845something Member

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    Pull ups were definitely part of the R-Day process on the roof of Thayer in the rain. It was not cadets evaluating them, but officers and NCOs. Trust but verify comes to mind.

    As for the CFA being unlike the APFT, it was almost changed recently to be very similar to the CFA. It's not that those physical dimensions won't be evaluated...it's just not on a test but in actual performance. The CFA is the best replicable proximity for some of the training Cadets will do. Shuttle run ~ like 3-5 second rushes used during IMT. Pull ups ~ for the shelf and rope climb during the IOCT.
     
  14. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    +1 to Luigi. NROTC MO uses the same test for the scholarship as is used by AD personnel. Maybe those Marines are smarter than many folks give them credit for? :biggrin:
     
  15. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    It's an assessment, not a test. It is meant to evaluate bio mechanical physical capabilities and agility as well as strength and endurance. There is no pass/fail line like the APFT.

    It's not that they aren't important, it that they are evaluated in different areas at the academy.

    I never took an SAT or ACT at West Point or a GRE in grad school.

    If a candidate presented a CFA to West Point that said they could do X number of pull-ups, they probably should be able to do X number of pull-ups when they get to West Point.
     
  16. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I think there is a pass fail line but it is not publicized.

    So far as being able to do X number of pull-ups when they get to West Point, why? They trained to do an evaluation that they knew would not be part of future requirements. After completing the CFA, what is their reason for continuing to train for pull-ups?

    I think the "one-stop shopping" is the reason for the CFA for 4/5 SA's.
     
  17. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    It's one-stop like the SAT and ACT are for all colleges. West Point used to have its own test before standardized ones. Efficiency isn't necessarily bad.

    And how are pull-ups not a future requirement at West Point/in the Army? I had to do them to pass the yearling fitness test. They are required for Airborne and Ranger school. Every battalion on my post has pull-up bars outside. Pull-up are an important evaluation of physical strength and Army leaders should be able to do them.
     
  18. trini1066

    trini1066 Member

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    I was thinking the same thing! Packer, you dont think pull ups are part of the Army?
     
  19. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Not the APFT required for commissioning. Am I mistaken?

    Merely pointing out why a cadet may not be able to do as many pull-ups when they report as they did for the CFA. They quit training.

    I do think pull-ups are an important measure of strength and every cadet should be able to do a bunch of them, considerably more than the 11 or so average on the CFA.
     
  20. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Packer, you are correct in that pull-ups are not required on the APFT. 2 mile run,push-ups,sit-ups is the AROTC test.
     

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