Pilot License
- Thread starter 6a3LYR
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While a PPL is not required, it can be helpful. I have an LTJG who completed her PPL as a 2/c (received instruction at her home airport on leave), and received a flight school billet upon graduation. During her interview with the selection board her 1/c year, the fact that she had shown interest and taken the initiative to pay for her own instruction was discussed at some length. In addition, any flight experience before reporting to Pensacola will be helpful. In years past, SNA's who had a PPL had the option of skipping IFS and going straight into API. IFS was in Cessna 172s or Piper Archers, and provided about 10 flight hours and a solo to the Navy and Marines, with Coasties getting about 25 hours including solo and cross country (my daughter was given the option to take IFS, which she did, just to get more flight time before API). However, Pensacola just recently changed their curriculum to the NIFE program. Now all SNAs only get about 6 hours in a Cessna (no solo), before they jump into a T-6B, where they get their first solo. It will be interesting to see the rate of attrition due to this change, as the T-6B can be quite a handful.
With seemingly so little leave, I was wondering if you could give me some insight on how she managed that. Thank you for all your input, it's very helpful.
sanman
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I know my DS intends to continue his lessons whilst at the academy. He will find a local airfield that does lessons and continue during weekend leave.
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It can be done if you seek out a flight school who has an accelerated private pilot program. My LTJG took an online PPL course, and passed her written, then did a two week accelerated PPL program over leave. It's intense, and you have to be dedicated to fly all day for two weeks, but it is doable.
Have him seek out the Aviation Club at CGA. In the past, they have had a competition flight team, and also flight opportunities at the local Groton airport.
ekb1398
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Although there is definitely nothing wrong with pursuing flight lessons, I do feel the need to say this here for future readers of the thread. If it is something you independently want to pursue, there is nothing wrong with that, and it certainly is a good way to demonstrate interest in flight for the application. However, this is a significant financial commitment. There are PLENTY - and I mean tons - of ways to demonstrate interest in flight that are completely free here at the Academy. There is flight shadow where you go up to the Air Station in Cape Cod for a weekend, internships, the possibility of taking the FAA Ground School class offered here at the Academy as an academic course, the Aviation Club (as previously mentioned), Cadet Aviation Training Program (a week over second class summer), the simulators here, and probably a lot more that aren't coming to the front of my mind right now plus whatever opportunities you create for yourself at summer units and such.
Of the 22 flight billets this year, to my knowledge, only one had any type of flight certification. Again, not trying to discourage, but I was once under the impression that without having flight training I would be noncompetitive and I want to make it clear that for anyone without the ability, for financial or other reasons, to pursue private flight training, there are plenty of other ways, too.
Of the 22 flight billets this year, to my knowledge, only one had any type of flight certification. Again, not trying to discourage, but I was once under the impression that without having flight training I would be noncompetitive and I want to make it clear that for anyone without the ability, for financial or other reasons, to pursue private flight training, there are plenty of other ways, too.
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Our DS also got a pilot slot without having his PPL. He was able to take the FAA ground school exam while home during covid and get his ASTB (military written flight exam) completed during summer training. He was working towards solo and only needed a couple of rides when covid hit. CGA has not allowed him to start them back up as of yet. Since he will be a summer Ensign at CGA he is planning on resuming flight lessons this summer.
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I agree there are many ways to show interest without getting your PPL, and definitely take advantage of those opportunities at CGA. However, every year there are 70+ cadets who apply for flight school, all with similar experiences showing "interest". When going in front of a selection board, it is always good to have a "hook" that makes you stand out from the crowd, and a PPL may be that "hook". As for cost, my LTJG chose to use a portion of the firstie loan to pay for her PPL, and opted for a more practical car.
Having been a professional pilot myself since the '80s, I can assure you that nothing compares with actual "stick" time in the aircraft. Especially now that the initial hours for SNAs has been greatly reduced, some flight experience prior would be beneficial before your aviation career is on the line. There's a saying in Pensacola..."attrition is the mission", so it is definitely not an easy path. Some flight experience prior may be what sets the SNA up for successful completion of the curriculum. I know my LTJG found it extremely beneficial to have that prior experience.
One last point...If you do not receive a flight school billet right out of CGA, don't despair. My LTJG went to PCola straight out with 19 other classmates. Others in her class began arriving within 6 months after graduation, and many followed at the year and year and a half mark. I think there is well over 40 from her class that are in the pipeline.
ekb1398
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I'm not disagreeing with any of what you're saying, I'm just saying that threads like this were sometimes pretty disheartening to me as a prospective/young cadet because I thought I was at a severe disadvantage by not having flight time. I'm just saying that if actual flight time isn't in the cards for someone, it most certainly isn't the end of the line.
I 100% agree with your point earlier about the "hook" though - in addition to showing flight interest, you definitely have to find a way to stand out in an interview that everyone else hasn't done too. It took me a little while to find mine, but with some guidance and hard thinking I did, and I think they helped a lot.
In the Air Force, one of the scores they take into consideration is the PCSM score. This score is calculated by using the pilot score from the AFOQT test (think SAT plus pilot and navigation sections) along with the score you get from the TBAS test. This score is then supersized by the amount of actual flight hours you may have. The maximum number of hours that will help is 201 flight hours. However, the first 40-50 hours will bring up your PCSM score more than the next 150 hours although it will help bring it up. So anyone with around 60-70 hours is going to have a pilot license. So while not required to have a license, you would want the hours which probably means you have the license. AVerage PCMS that is accepted is around the mid-60s. THE highest PCSM you can get without any flight hours is around 70 and the top score is 99. National Guard probably won't even look at you if you don't have a license. I now see that this is under the Coast Guard section so I have no idea how they work. All I can tell you is that the license isn't required although helpful. It won't shorten flight training although it will give you an advantage over your peers early on. It does even out as you advance in training but again this is how it works in the AF.
mamabear2023
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This is a good thread. Can @ekb1398 or another knowledgeable person please clarify what the commitment is for 1C's chosen for flight school? We've heard 8 years, but also have heard 5 years PLUS 8 years, for a total of 13 years.
So we're unclear if it's 8 years or 13 years. Bonus if you have a link that confirms it! Thank you.
SurferGirl
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DS is currently a 4/c and has Private Pilot's license. He joined the CGA flight team after getting license over winter leave. He personally knows the captain of the flight team who is also co-president of aviation club. The flight team captain got a flight school billet. Yes the flight commitment coming straight out of the academy is 13 years. DS has spoken to many 1/c cadets with flight school billets and CG aviators who are faculty. Can't find official link though.
Having your PPL and being on the flight team is an excellent way to show interest and dedication to aviation here at the academy. Is it the only way? Certainly not. There are tons of other opportunities to show interest in aviation at the academy such as becoming an instructor on the Redbird simulator, being stationed at an air station during 1/c summer, and being actively involved in aviation club.
As many others have said, getting your PPL is quite costly both monetarily and time commitment. DS had over 75 flight hours before getting PPL and did everything at home. It is theoretically possible to try to do flight training at CGA but with all of the other time restraints and other obligations a cadet has on a daily basis it would be nearly impossible to get PPL here at the local New London-Groton airport and thus it would be advantageous to start flight training before you report to the academy. Since academy breaks are so short, it is very challenging to get much significant progress done towards flight training/scheduling check rides (especially since VFR flight is weather dependent). DS lucked out and had extended winter leave this past November/December since cadets went home for Thanksgiving and finished up classes virtually for the last 2 weeks.
Just having a PPL in of itself is not enough to get you into flight school. Here is an article about a former cadet on the flight team who did not get a flight school billet straight from the academy (but got one after his first tour on a cutter):
www.uscga.edu
Hope this is helpful!
Having your PPL and being on the flight team is an excellent way to show interest and dedication to aviation here at the academy. Is it the only way? Certainly not. There are tons of other opportunities to show interest in aviation at the academy such as becoming an instructor on the Redbird simulator, being stationed at an air station during 1/c summer, and being actively involved in aviation club.
As many others have said, getting your PPL is quite costly both monetarily and time commitment. DS had over 75 flight hours before getting PPL and did everything at home. It is theoretically possible to try to do flight training at CGA but with all of the other time restraints and other obligations a cadet has on a daily basis it would be nearly impossible to get PPL here at the local New London-Groton airport and thus it would be advantageous to start flight training before you report to the academy. Since academy breaks are so short, it is very challenging to get much significant progress done towards flight training/scheduling check rides (especially since VFR flight is weather dependent). DS lucked out and had extended winter leave this past November/December since cadets went home for Thanksgiving and finished up classes virtually for the last 2 weeks.
Just having a PPL in of itself is not enough to get you into flight school. Here is an article about a former cadet on the flight team who did not get a flight school billet straight from the academy (but got one after his first tour on a cutter):
Flight Team Scores at West Point
Hope this is helpful!
Impulsive
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10 U.S. Code § 653 - Minimum service requirement for certain flight crew positions
prev | next(a)Pilots.—
The minimum service obligation of any member who successfully completes training in the armed forces as a pilot shall be 8 years, if the member is trained to fly fixed-wing jet aircraft, or 6 years, if the member is trained to fly any other type of aircraft.
(b)Navigators and Naval Flight Officers.—
The minimum service obligation of any member who successfully completes training in the armed forces as a navigator or naval flight officer shall be 6 years.
(c)Definition.—In this section, the term “service obligation” means the period of active duty or, in the case of a member of a reserve component who completed flight training in an active duty for training status as a member of a reserve component, the period of service in an active status in the Selected Reserve required to be served after—
(1)
completion of undergraduate pilot training, in the case of training as a pilot;
(2)
completion of undergraduate navigator training, in the case of training as a navigator; or
(3)
completion of undergraduate training as a naval flight officer, in the case of training as a naval flight officer.
USCG is NOT under 10 USC but it is probably similar.
ekb1398
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For the Coast Guard, the minimum time commitment for flight school is 8 years, but does not allow that to run concurrently with service obligation time from the Academy, so in effect, it will make it 13 years. This is a notable difference from the Navy and Marine Corps (unsure about the other two branches), who DO allow the time to run concurrently.
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For Coast Guard, the 8 years is added on to the minimum 5 years upon "completion" of flight school (winging). If, for instance, the SNA (Coasties are referred to as Student Naval Aviators, same as Navy and Marines) fails out of flight school, becomes medically disqualified, or DORs, they do not incur the additional 8 year commitment.