Pilot Selection Help

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ldean, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. ldean

    ldean New Member

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    This is for AFROTC. I have a 75 PCSM score (86 on AFOQT and i dont know about the TBAS). I am competing this january for a slot and I dont know if 75 is competitive or not. If its not then im going to retake the TBAS and try to get a higher score. So I would like to know if my scores are competitive or not. I have a 3.6 GPA as a mathematics major, im top 15% in my detatchment, I have a 98.3 on the PFA and I was mid-third at field training.

    Any constructive input would be helpful. Thank you
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Have you talked to your CoC? Every yr that PCSM will vary somewhat. I thought for rated they will drop the AFOQT score and use the TBAS for rated board. They will use the AFOQT, and not the TBAS if not selected for rated and you go up for non-rated.

    Good news is typically it has been a very high selection rate for rated, but that lower score may mean you get a CSO or UAV slot and not a UPT slot. It is afterall a point scale from an OML perspective.

    Your det commander will give you the best advice, listen to them.

    Good luck.
     
  3. ldean

    ldean New Member

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    I have talked to one of my instructors and they said that with my scores I am competitive for a pilot slot but he is also an academy grad and i dont know if he fully knows the process for pilot selection in rotc cause this is his first year working rotc.

    I though that the PCSM was a percentile score and that if you have a 75 then you are in the top 25%? Am i wrong to think that.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Here is the scoring system for rated board

    FACTOR WEIGHT
    RSS (Note 1) 20%
    Cumulative GPA 10%
    PFT 15%
    FT 15%
    AFOQT-N (Note 2) 40%
    PCSM (Note 2) 40%
    AFOQT-AA (Note 2) 40%

    Notes:
    1. The formula for calculating RSS and FT is (100*((1-
    R/C)+0.5/C)) where R=UCR and C=Class Size
    2. The PCSM is used for categorization processing if applying for
    pilot and RPA. The AFOQT-N is used for categorization
    processing if applying for CSO. The AFOQT-AA is used for
    categorization processing if applying for ABM.

    What I meant by the PCSM is every yr the amount of slots offered will vary, so thus the cut off will vary. One yr it could be 70 and the next yr it could be 90. Nobody knows because nobody knows the amount that will be offered.

    In the past few yrs., it has been basically 100% for rated, which includes CSO, RPA and ABM along with pilot. I don't know what the % of those that request pilot, but get CSO, RPA or ABM.

    I think you will get a rated slot, but remember it is an OML list, the lower your score the more will be placed before you on the list. Some will want something other than pilot, so again, if they have a higher score, but want CSO (eyes?) the number will change.

    This is just my personal opinion, but even the past few yrs they had out the door great numbers for UPT selection, I think you will see even higher numbers for the next few yrs. There are two reasons why I think that.
    1. Major airlines have not hired since 2001, and by law pilots must step out of the cockpit when they turn 62. These airlines usually hire military pilots, so if someone left in 97 at 42, they will be 57 today. Even if they were 42 in 01, they have less than a decade left. The clock is ticking loud for airlines regarding pilot shortage. We have many airline pilot friends, and the youngest we know in the airlines right now is 50. The oldest is now 59. Of course the airline pilots union wants the age to raise to 65, so who knows if it will because the FAA has to implement that rule, and anything needing govt approval usually moves at the speed of molasses in winter.
    ~~~ The AF is looking at you to enter in 14, it will take at least 2 yrs to get you to be operational. 3-4 yrs to get you to become an IP. That puts it at 2018. The exact same time airlines will be in a heavy hiring spree.

    They are cognizant at all times about manpower needs, and pay attention to the airlines because they know that many pilots will bolt at 1 of 2 points...as soon as commitment is fulfilled or retirement.

    2. The 35 is starting to come on line, and the AF ordered a lot of these airframes. Although they are replacing the 16, if they do it like they did the strike eagle with the 111's and 4's, there will be several yrs of transitioning, so both the 16 and 35 will need to have pilots. It takes yrs to get squadrons up and running because you 1st have to have an initial cadre, than that initial cadre will become instructors so they can get more pilots through the pipe line. Than they need to fill operational squadrons.

    The thing is all at the same time the AF will need to maintain C status, so they will slowly close down the 16s while getting 35s on line. The Strike was in Gulf 1, right after the Gulf in 91 they started to boneyard the 4 and the 111. It took them about 5 yrs to convert everyone over.

    I don't know how many squadrons the 16 has, nor how many the 35 will have, but if it is a 1 for 1, you can see how long it can take. The other reason it can take longer to convert is how long it will take for FTU. If 35 FTU is 9 months, and the 16 was only 6 months, it will be longer. Just throwing numbers, I don't know how long either training course is, but you get the jist...longer FTU the longer the 16 will remain operational.

    The importance here is @94 the airlines were hiring like mad, like they will do starting in 17/18. The AF lost so many pilots, they upped the bonus to the 125K that it is now. They raised the age limit. They also granted waivers for age and vision. If you were a WSO aka CSO, and wanted to go to UPT, it was basically a 100% guarantee if you just asked for a slot.

    So if my rational is right, I wouldn't worry you will get a UPT slot. Just my 0.0197548 cents so through it in a circular filing cabinet when you are done reading it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  5. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Don't forget the USAF's own proud claim that they're making more UAV pilots than real pilots now.
     
  6. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Call me old-fashioned, but I for one have no intention of being a passenger in a UAV, no matter how many frequent flyer points they offer
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Very true scout. However, the UAV is a path now. For example as a C300 they will know if they are going RPA, they won't be given the option to track into an airframe. I am pretty sure they all go to San Antonio. Our DS's friend knew at commissioning he was going RPA. He was an alternate for the rated board, and picked up 6 weeks prior to commissioning.

    But, you are correct the rated board will basically increase from this aspect. The thing for ldean and every cadet to realize is when they submit their list they submit 3 options, for some they will place RPA, some don't. Our DS didn't he placed ABM and CSO. As you stated they are increasing RPA and it maybe we see alot of RPA slots coming down.

    The reason why is like any branch they have OTS and can use that board to fill up pilot slots too. Our friend's DS applied for OTS last yr as a rising sr(2013 grad) and wanted pilot. They offered him CSO. He was told the reason why very, very, very few got pilot was because between AFA and AFROTC, plus xtraining CSO's they met their quota for FY 13. Who knows, the next OTS rated board meets in Jan. and the AF may decide to give them all pilot slots. They may see AFROTC as a way to get more through the RPA pipeline faster.

    It is alot about manpower and timing when it comes to AF careers.
     
  8. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    How will this new development play into an 18 year old's choice between AF and Navy, assuming the primary criterion in making this choice is a preference for airframe over remote piloting?
     
  9. kevster

    kevster Member

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    Just a heads up regarding rated slots this year. Now cadets cannot compete for specific pilot, RPA, CSO or ABM slots. Now you apply for a Rated slot and the AF tells you what you get.

    For instance I was initially going to compete for a Pilot and CSO slot and thats it. Now I have to compete for all 4 slots. The boards select Pilot, RPA, CSO and ABM in that order. So if you don't get pilot you go up for RPA and so on.

    There are ways to game the system, dont take the TBAS (only CSO and ABM are open) medical...etc. However it looks like a newish ball game now.

    I guess theoretically the "best" candidates will get pilot whether they like it or not. Needs of the AF > Your desires.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    kevster,

    I was hoping you would chime in. It appears they are using the same as OTS rated selection board.

    The question now will be how many pilot slots are available?

    I don't understand how you know your PCSM if you don't know your TBAS score? Just a Mom, and my post is worth squat. Your unit knows more insight than this forum.

    Again, remember long term (5 yrs) man power needs will be a player in their selection for this yr.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  11. ahuntedyeti

    ahuntedyeti Member

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    Does anyone know how many are chosen for a pilot slot?
     
  12. kevster

    kevster Member

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    I think the rumor was about 550ish slots will be open this year. I'll try and find the doc but I remember the numbers that it projected have been pretty accurate with the previous classes.

    Pima you are correct in that you wont know the PCSM score until the TBAS is taken. PCSM is only used for Pilot and RPA candidates. With that being said CSO and ABM candidates use the AFOQT Nav and AA sections instead of the PCSM.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If I recall correctly that is about the number they had for DS's class too, but if I recall correctly your class is the start of smaller class sizes too, which would be good news for anyone competing. Than again, is that 550 for AFROTC or AFROTC and OTS, both will have boards starting in Jan.

    I am guessing used their AFOQT not their TBAS for their PCSM, however, it still goes back to the fact that until you know how many are competing for the board, and how many slots, the number is just a number.

    One thing I could say for sure, I am willing to bet my beloved Myrtle that 75 is not high enough for ENJJPT.
     
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Poor Myrtle sure gets wagered a lot.:smile:
     

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