It makes sense for the military to adjust their ROTC commissioning numbers to reflect their projected needs. Especially when 11th hour sequestration cuts have to be taken into account. However, I am having some difficulty believing that the military, as a whole, are over-strength on vanilla RNs.
Please help with Plan B for my NROTC Nursing Option daughter
- Thread starter Hopeful4
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I'm not sure I agree completely with telling prospective ROTC candidates that all military nursing is about the same. That would be similar to saying that in the civilian world it doesn't matter which hospital you work at. There are many reasons to choose one civilian hospital over another.As others have said before despite the slight differences nursing is nursing. I know we can't always expect rational decisions from 17/18 year olds but that's the purpose of this forum, to educate
As a military nurse, if you are working stateside in a hospital then your duties as a nurse will probably be similar in each branch. However will the "culture" of the AF be similar to that of the Army or Navy? Post/base facilities/locations? Housing? Food? Combat nursing assignments? There are differences that ROTC candidates should (IMHO) consider when choosing a branch for military nursing.
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Yup. But there is a shade of difference between in-school scholarships and advanced standing. Just wanted to make sure it was clear. We're on the same page buddy!
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I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that bedside nursing is bedside nursing and that is what a new RN will do. As for other niche assignments later down the road (senior O-3) that is up to the individual. Most of the Army MTF are joint, meaning I would see Navy, Army and AF working on the same floor doing the same job.
Of all the jobs within the military, nursing or the medical field in general is the least likely to be different across the services. At BOLC we learned about the other branches' medical capabilities and the differences are minute. Whether you are in a CSH within the Army, a C-17 over Afghanistan or on the USS Mercy in the Pacific you are still an RN functioning within a normal RN scope of practice.
If your goals are to...:
A. Be an RN/BSN
B. Be in the military as an officer
C. Get your school paid for
D. Want the ability to specialize and move up
....then branch choice is rather moot. The OP's DD probably doesn't have a grasp on why she actually wants the Navy. Maybe it's the uniforms or chance of sea travel? I don't know but if someone was so focused on the process (i.e differences in each ROTC branch, differences in base housing) rather than the product I would question that candidates desire to be a military RN.
My point is all options and branches should be considered.
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Next to 0 right now with no experience.
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The military is over-strength on vanilla RNs. Vanilla is considered <2 years exp with no specialty and even a lot of specialties are full. This isn't 2008 anymore, lots of out of work RNs flocked to the military with 2-4 years exp as DC which slashes the really vanilla RN pool found in ROTC.
I think we mostly agree on the point of bedside nursing being very similar between branches. My question was about the differences when nurses are not actually performing bedside nursing in a hospital. Are there any differences in the military "culture" of the various branches? How about post/base facilities/locations? Housing? Food? Combat nursing assignments? All the same?
Interesting! I didn't think that nurses with 2-4 years of experience had ANY difficulty finding work....especially if they were willing to relocate to where there were ample jobs (south?). I would think that any nurse willing to join the military would be someone willing to relocate. Do you have a source for this information?
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FYI, when I'm referring to vanilla RNs (BSN, RN), I'm referencing medical/surgical nurses. Military nurses are 1 of 2 BS level medical providers allowed to practice in the service (dietician is the other). The military is flooded with medsurg nurses. They aren't kicking them out, but promotions and career progression assignments are harder to achieve.
The current state of military nursing kinda makes me chuckle, because that "nursing" cadet will soon become just a cadet. Their "unofficial" protected status will end and they will be forced to Soldier. I'm VERY anti ROTC for clinically-minded students (that's a whole 'nother convo...).
Nurses aren't getting kicked out, they're getting passed over and being asked to not extend contracts UNLESS they have a special skill set that can't be acquired in 4-6 weeks.
I'm saying all this to say, don't be picky with your branch when it comes to medical.
The current state of military nursing kinda makes me chuckle, because that "nursing" cadet will soon become just a cadet. Their "unofficial" protected status will end and they will be forced to Soldier. I'm VERY anti ROTC for clinically-minded students (that's a whole 'nother convo...).
Nurses aren't getting kicked out, they're getting passed over and being asked to not extend contracts UNLESS they have a special skill set that can't be acquired in 4-6 weeks.
I'm saying all this to say, don't be picky with your branch when it comes to medical.
USN16x
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Since NROTC Nurse Option is extremely competitive could the Navy Nurse Candidate Program be an alternative? I understand this too is a very competitive process. Reading in to this thread it is my understanding that it is difficult to get into military nursing if you do not have a lot of experience, would a better alternative be getting experience in a civilian hospital then looking at the military?
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Some might be selectively out of work too. You can always move to find some job but the South has terrible pay even with the lower cost of living. I've seen new grads getting only $21 an hour. The military is lucrative for these novice RNs because the pay and promotions are stable.
Generally speaking with 2-4 year of exp you will land a RN job but a few years ago that wasnt the case which prompted a lot of civvys to DC into the military. The wars also fueled the need for close to 1000 new Army nurses a while back a that number has been cut greatly.These DCs are still working bedside which stems the normal flow of vanilla RNs from coming through. I can't link you any direct info but my sources are military nurse recruiters and being around the "business" haha. Although I'm not as familiar with the AF and Navy I have heard similar reports as the military medical world is rather small.
Hopefully....we've answered the OP's question satisfactorily and we can risk some additional thread drift.
Could you please expound more on the above quote? This information could be of interest to anyone considering Army nursing. How have Army nurses enjoyed an "unofficial" protected status? What do you mean when you say that "they will be forced to Soldier"? Will they no longer be nurses?
Thanks!
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I assume he is talking about the "protected" status of nursing cadets while in ROTC. I might not be the best person to ask because I was a sort of an oddity among nursing cadets. When it has come to "Army" stuff I found it interesting and thrived during non-nursing situations in ROTC and in my very very short officer career. If the Army came to me one day and said we want you to be an artillery officer I wouldn't bat an eye. Perhaps I would be a little disappointed regarding all the work I put in for my RN but the combat side of things has always intrigued me. For 90% of the nursing cadets out there if you asked them if they would still be in ROTC if they weren't nursing the answer would be no.
As for the protected status, meaning exempt from PT and some training I believe it is warranted in some situations. The problems arise when people start to abuse the the leniency and stop putting any effort into ROTC. This is where the negative nurse cadet stigma comes from at LDAC or in any battalion. In FTX lanes. "Oh no she's a nurse this lane is going to be all jacked up", is heard all to often and I tried my best to change that stigma.
Now in my peak of nursing clinicals my senior year I had 20 semester credits and was putting in 36 hours a week at the hospital and NIGHT hours for half of the shifts. You better believe I wasn't going to all PT sessions and did miss some training (I was an MS4/5 though). I still fulfilled 95% of my ROTC duties but still heard grumblings among my peers regarding nurse exemptions. It was interesting considering these same complainers were LOOKING for classes to take in order to stay full time (12 credits) their senior year. Obviously they have enough time on their hands to run the battalion without all the nurses...
BLUF: The exemptions and leniency are needed to keep nurses on track to graduate and maintain grades as the Army wants RNs and not ex-nursing cadets. However, it should not be abused and nursing cadets should do their best to squash the stigma and remain active in ROTC.
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Nursing ROTC scholarship cadets are....special. They can have a 3.2 or a 2.3; they have their branch guaranteed. They get "excused" from lots of training because cadre want to focus their efforts on the regular cadets.
Thanks for the explanation.
This must be an Army ROTC "special" thing. You cannot have a 2.3 GPA in the AF and expect to get selected for SFT....regardless of your major. 3.0 is realistically the lowest you can go and still hope to be selected for FT. Of course without FT there is no AF commission let alone a branch (AFSC) guarantee.
My daughter's experience in AFROTC nursing seems similar to Aglahads. Despite 19 credit hours this semester AND doing her Transitions program (think 36 hours a week working the same hours as her preceptor) she is expected to fulfill all of her AFROTC duties. Will she need to occasionally miss a PT session THIS semester because the nurse that she is assigned to begins her shift on some days at 6:00 AM? Probably, but that will be the exception and NOT something that happened during the first 3 years of AFROTC.
Obviously I cannot comment on how the AROTC nursing program works or how they may have "protected" their nursing cadets in the past. I do know that other than some possible additional points for SFT selection, AFROTC nurses are not "excused" from lots of training because cadre want to focus their efforts on the regular cadets. According to my daughter....ALL the nursing cadets are expected to fulfill their AFROTC responsibilities....including passing the PT tests with GOOD scores.
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2.3 won't even get you through a lot of nursing schools. I got on probation for getting two B-s my first semester.
k2rider
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Aglahad...sorry, I don't have any information on that. I can tell you that all the nurses from my daughters school went AD this year.
WestminsterDad
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I can't offer advise on Nrotc or Afrotc nursing programs but I do have some knowledge on the Arotc nursing program based on my DD's experience in their program. DD is a 4 year scholarship cadet. She currently is in her 4th year of the nursing program. From the get go DD was expected to participate fully in all activities that the regular cadets were required to do. She had to attend all Labs and Pt sessions. Her first two years she was a member of the Ranger challenge team. She has also been a member of the color guard unit at several public ceremonies. The only exceptions offered nursing cadets were she was allowed to show up late for some Labs when her clinical schedule conflicted with the normal lab schedule. She was also allowed to skip her MS2 year and jump to MS3 her sophomore year so she could go to LDAC a year early because of the increased nursing schedule. This year she is considered a MS4/5. Her cadre has been all over the map as far as what they want her to do this year. Last year she fulfilled the duties of a MS4. This year she is still doing Pt and attending Labs. The 2014 Arotc nursing commissioning numbers were adjusted downward. I believe in 2012 she was advised that the Army only needed 150-175 Arotc nurses for 2014 down from the usual 200-230 it normally commissioned each year. Cadets were allowed to change their major from nursing to a different major without losing 6 months of their scholarship funding. The Army was able to make their decreased numbers by some nursing cadets changing their majors and others not getting accepted into their school's nursing program. As far as she knows as of today all 2014 Arotc nurses will still go active duty. This past summer DD went to Germany for a month and worked at the Army hospital for NSTP. She said their were both Navy and Air Force medical personnel working there as well.