Plebe regrets

Sadly, there is a stigma to “getting help.”

My son went to office hours to advance his understanding in classes he had top grades in. Getting to know the professors and seeking help to develop understanding - no matter how well you are doing in a class - is a good thing, imo.
Thank you for acknowledging that there IS a stigma to getting/asking for help! I have mentioned it to other parents and they tell me I am wrong, but my plebe showed me on his phone where others told him he isn't smart enough to be there if he needs to ask for help.
 
You are absolutely smart enough to be at USMMA! There are majors issues going on at all colleges due to covid 19 and the educational gaps that it caused when schools were closed and learning was done remotely. Go see your professors, ask for a tutor and grind away.
 
Thank you for acknowledging that there IS a stigma to getting/asking for help!
This is absolute BS ... I don't know anything about USMMA, but they draw from the same pool of applicants, have the same (similar) missions, and would expect that they have the same philosophy towards "getting help." If there is a stigma, its because Admissions has shifted toward those more academically inclined in a misguided effort to compete with elite academic schools, resulting in admission of alot of kids who never faced academic adversity. I've told the story on the USNA board about the concerned parent who sent a message to me and another USNA grad in town, upset that his son was getting a C in plebe chemistry early in his first semester. (THis was a kid with straight A, 1600 SAT's) Both the other grad and I responded within minutes of each other with the same response...CONGRATs, I would love loved to have a C.

First question is what is an academic problem, for those getting their first C in life, that can be a wake up call -- not everyone is going to get straight A's at a Service Academy ...deal with it. If you aren't understanding the material ...GET HELP, it only gets worse if you don't. Further, if it comes down to the Academic Board scenario, where you are pleading your case for retention, the first question to the Midshipman and academic advisors is the degree of effort and taking advantage of all the resources available. USNA has a special Academic Center dedicated to ensuring that extra help is available, including during study hours, to help those that need it. Bottom line , getting EI won't keep you from getting the Ax (academic board), but lack of effort and seeking EI will definitely help you get there.,

I can guaranty that there is no stigma from staff and faculty for getting extra help. Sure, there will be other Midshipman/Cadets that breeze through academics but I don't getting any flak for getting help ..most are in the same boat.


I graduated from USAFA...was given a second chance after failing a calculus class with a grade of...
Sounds like a familiar story ... I went home from NAPS at Christmas (middle of 2nd trimester) with two failing grades in Calculus (we took two math classes at the time, and my grade in both was close tot the freezing point --32). I was a regular at EI with my instructors, and my parents arranged for a professor at the local college to tutor me, and I spent the better part of Christmas break with him. I was on double secret academic probation , with a weekly meeting with the CO of NAPS to discuss my academic efforts and progress. I managed to eke out a D in both classes, then the Academic Board had mercy and moved me down to the middle track classes (NAPS had a three track system back them.) and I ended up retaking and learning what flew over my head during the first go through. I turned things around in the third trimester, and never looked back (I graduated USNA with Merit, and law school Order of the Coif).

Funny story, it wasn't until years later that my Dad revealed to me that he had spoken with the professor who tutored me, and that professor told him that I understood the materials far better than his own freshman students and had nothing to worry about. The "knock them down and build them back up better" philosophy of Midshipman training and academics was pretty strong back then !
 
Sadly, there is a stigma to “getting help.”

My son went to office hours to advance his understanding in classes he had top grades in. Getting to know the professors and seeking help to develop understanding - no matter how well you are doing in a class - is a good thing, imo.
This is something I talk to students about often. One of my biggest regrets from USNA is letting my fear of looking weak stand in the way of reaching out for help. I certainly didn't want to tell my Marine LtCol Calculus instructor that I had no idea what he was talking about. And seeking help from other instructors wasn't something that crossed my mind.

I think all of the academies are less proud of high attrition rates than they were back then.
 
Thank you for acknowledging that there IS a stigma to getting/asking for help! I have mentioned it to other parents and they tell me I am wrong, but my plebe showed me on his phone where others told him he isn't smart enough to be there if he needs to ask for help.
If your son got those messages on his phone there is a whole lot more to this story. I would find messages like that to be absolutely shocking coming from fellow students.
 
The stigma comes from peers and it starts in high school. Almost all professors at SA (and regular colleges) want to give their time to further students’ understanding of the material.

In high school - my son was teased by the JV basketball team as the dumb one. Never mind they didn’t realize he wasn’t in their classes because he was in the advanced classes. Until they found out he had the highest GPA in school history.

My son did every bonus and extra credit assignment offered. He developed relationships with teachers in high school and an USNA.

During plebe AY - he spent a lot of time in the resource area. For all his accomplishments - he was a horrible writer. For some reason his school didn’t teach grammar and writing well. The PhD in English at the resource center was one he worked with most. He is now a clear and concise writer.

I don’t think many midshipman look down on people seeking help. In fact, most either seek help or offer help to their peers.

The stigmatization happens with parents and social media.
 
Kids finances and families are all different, but this worked for us.

Back in 2015 we got a call from our plebe; she was clearly upset, sad and angry. She just said “I really need to see you out here”. We jumped a Flt. from the West coast. By the time we got there DD was “all-good," (to this day I don’t know what prompted that visit request) . We were out there for a long weekend, DW and I took her into DC. She slept in a “real bed," went out to dinner, fell asleep watching PPV movies, shopped at Whole Foods. DD had fun, we had fun.

Started a pattern for us. DW and I traded off making solo trips to keep costs down and make logistics easier, but we got out there for visits in Oct, Feb, April every year DD was at USNA (made a science of it). Between visits to USNA and Holiday trips home DD got a break from the USNA Grind about every 8 weeks. Fast forward to DD’s 1C year, she was sitting at a desk at my favorite hotel in Nap Town... ;). DD looks up from her work and says: “Dad you have no Idea how much your visits helped me succeed here. About the time the grind of this place was getting to me and things felt dark, I’d look up at the calendar and I could start counting down the days until you or mom would be out here. Thank you”.

IMO the USNA is the best undergraduate school in the country, and an opportunity worth protecting for a DD/DS. In the OP's spot, unless my plebe is dead set on leaving, I tell him I want to help. I ask my him to make it just to Oct, and I will be out for the 3day weekend to take him into DC and unwind/do-the-town. As long as he hangs in, (and needs it), I’m giving him another “close target” to hit. People, families and finances differ but this really worked for our DD and I’d don’t regret the $$, vacation days, and other stuff we passed on to make those trips happen.



Note: They never call home when things are going great.
This advice right here... you know your kid and how to support them. That looks different for every family, for every student. I always find it disheartening when on parent forums for the academies and the advice to a question like this is "They need to toughen up" "They're in the military now, you need to cut the apron strings," etc etc ... but strategies like this poster described are just ways to show up and be supportive!
 
Professor office hours are a must. My son is currently tutoring Calc, Chem, and Physics (Deck). His very good friend (Engine) is also tutoring. Is he deck or engine? We can private message after a few more posts and maybe I can give you more advice.
There is perhaps one more avenue for help and that is to try to befriend someone from your own high school. I know at one time when I was having some difficulty I turned to a fellow high school graduate, a year ahead of me, and he put me on the right course. Obviously not everyone can have such circumstances as a fellow high school alum, but even someone from the same town. One thing about Kings Pointers, is the camaraderie is great.
 
DD graduated from KP with a very high class rank. I don't believe she was smarter than the others, but she was wiser. She never let herself fall behind. She was continually getting help at all levels- friends, company, tutors, professors. Every review session. Help not only for what she was having difficulty understanding but also checking to make sure she really did understand what she was certain she understood. Parents, even those with college degrees, must recognize the stress the system applies with the regimental and physical requirements along with the academics crammed into short trimesters. From her experiences I can assure you there is no stigma to getting help. (Except, perhaps, from a few insecure jerks)
 
From her experiences I can assure you there is no stigma to getting help. (Except, perhaps, from a few insecure jerks)
That's probably the best takeaway from this: the people who think help is bad are coming from a place of fear or insecurity. People who know how to succeed aren't afraid to do what is needed. And sometimes leaders have to ignore opinion and make hard choices to get things accomplished. Head up, feet moving, take the steps you require and keep moving ahead.
 
As parent’s weekend approaches, does anyone else have a plebe seriously considering leaving ? Mine is miserable. We have encouraged him to push on to parent’s weekend, so that we are able to talk to him.
Everyone who went through KP has at some point had a "what am I doing here" moment. However, there is not a single one that has regretted sticking it through. There is no place on Earth that will grant more opportunities than Kings Point. I know that future opportunities does not always make up for suffering now but if you can try to encourage your son to keep going!
 
I graduated at 26 because it took me three tries to get in and three tries to get out (2xSetback). I was in the running for anchorman (started 1/C year in the bottom 10) and finished with a sub 2.5 GPA. Post graduation absolutely zero people cared. 25+ years later I am a business owner and well respected in my segment of the maritime industry, In addition to the US I receive calls from Asia, Europe, and points in between for my services.

Graduation is all that matters ... do what you need to get there, no matter how much help you need to seek out. Graduation is where the journey truly begins, get there and grow from there.
 
I graduated at 26 because it took me three tries to get in and three tries to get out (2xSetback). I was in the running for anchorman (started 1/C year in the bottom 10) and finished with a sub 2.5 GPA. Post graduation absolutely zero people cared. 25+ years later I am a business owner and well respected in my segment of the maritime industry, In addition to the US I receive calls from Asia, Europe, and points in between for my services.

Graduation is all that matters ... do what you need to get there, no matter how much help you need to seek out. Graduation is where the journey truly begins, get there and grow from there.
I was there when you were there and literally have zero memory of a 26 year old 2x set back. I believe you, I just never knew those kinds of anomalies existed. Good on you for persevering. I would not have lasted that long if I didn't graduate with my 2.8 first time around. KPS.
 
Although it seems like an eternity right now, recognition will be here before he knows it an that is the first step towards the finish line. Like CMakin said, what seems like an eternity in front of you is a blink behind you.

Plebe year by definition sucks. It's 90% a mental exercise and 100% worth the payoff. I have NEVER heard ANY alumni say they regretted sticking it out.
Yup 35 yrs ago in those itchy blue robes and polyester pajamas in non A/C Jones Hall seems like yesterday.
 
This is absolute BS ... I don't know anything about USMMA, but they draw from the same pool of applicants, have the same (similar) missions, and would expect that they have the same philosophy towards "getting help." If there is a stigma, its because Admissions has shifted toward those more academically inclined in a misguided effort to compete with elite academic schools, resulting in admission of alot of kids who never faced academic adversity. I've told the story on the USNA board about the concerned parent who sent a message to me and another USNA grad in town, upset that his son was getting a C in plebe chemistry early in his first semester. (THis was a kid with straight A, 1600 SAT's) Both the other grad and I responded within minutes of each other with the same response...CONGRATs, I would love loved to have a C.

First question is what is an academic problem, for those getting their first C in life, that can be a wake up call -- not everyone is going to get straight A's at a Service Academy ...deal with it. If you aren't understanding the material ...GET HELP, it only gets worse if you don't. Further, if it comes down to the Academic Board scenario, where you are pleading your case for retention, the first question to the Midshipman and academic advisors is the degree of effort and taking advantage of all the resources available. USNA has a special Academic Center dedicated to ensuring that extra help is available, including during study hours, to help those that need it. Bottom line , getting EI won't keep you from getting the Ax (academic board), but lack of effort and seeking EI will definitely help you get there.,

I can guaranty that there is no stigma from staff and faculty for getting extra help. Sure, there will be other Midshipman/Cadets that breeze through academics but I don't getting any flak for getting help ..most are in the same boat.



Sounds like a familiar story ... I went home from NAPS at Christmas (middle of 2nd trimester) with two failing grades in Calculus (we took two math classes at the time, and my grade in both was close tot the freezing point --32). I was a regular at EI with my instructors, and my parents arranged for a professor at the local college to tutor me, and I spent the better part of Christmas break with him. I was on double secret academic probation , with a weekly meeting with the CO of NAPS to discuss my academic efforts and progress. I managed to eke out a D in both classes, then the Academic Board had mercy and moved me down to the middle track classes (NAPS had a three track system back them.) and I ended up retaking and learning what flew over my head during the first go through. I turned things around in the third trimester, and never looked back (I graduated USNA with Merit, and law school Order of the Coif).

Funny story, it wasn't until years later that my Dad revealed to me that he had spoken with the professor who tutored me, and that professor told him that I understood the materials far better than his own freshman students and had nothing to worry about. The "knock them down and build them back up better" philosophy of Midshipman training and academics was pretty strong back then !
I wonder how many people who never went to an academy know that a bunch of us would do the happy dance for a C.:D
 
I wonder how many people who never went to an academy know that a bunch of us would do the happy dance for a C.:D
My degree says that I majored in political science but I know that it really means that I majored in graduation.

My 2.54 was actually held against me by a prospective employer who flat out told me this when they didn’t offer me a position. It was a well known industrial supply company that was marketed as being service academy graduate friendly and I had 5 successful years as a Marine Corps logistician when I resigned my commission.

Their loss!
 
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