Plebe summer

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by summer1942, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. summer1942

    summer1942 Member

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    I am sorry to hear that quite a few of plebes already decided to quit. Any one has the number ? Is that really hard ???
     
  2. CAmom2015

    CAmom2015 Member

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    Our plebe called home yesterday and my husband and I were able to chat with him for a while, and although he said they are kept very busy and the physical training is tough, he didn't sound overly discouraged. Plebe Summer is supposed to be hard. All the parents are warned about "the letter" that will come stating they want to quit, that it wasn't what they envisioned. Parents are supposed to be a support during that time, and encourage their plebe to hang in there. Our DS didn't mention about anyone quitting from his platoon. Most parents are sending cards and care packages to help their mids stayed encouraged during this challenging time.
     
  3. 2012mom?

    2012mom? Member

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    I don't know overall numbers, but yes, at least one Plebe quit on I-day, and others started talking about "how they don't fit in," on the first day, and those who think that way are likely to leave.

    IMO, things like this are signs that those Plebes were there for the wrong reasons (i.e., I'm going into the military just like Mom/Dad/Aunt/Uncle/Grandpa, etc), or they just thought of it as a great college scholarship, not the fact that they were joining the Navy.

    Lessons to be learned? Parents, getting an appointment is not like getting a new rank in Boy Scouts. Offer help when requested by your candidate, but do not push them to complete their applications. If they don't want it enough to do the work the application requires, maybe it's more your dream for them than it is his or hers.

    Same thing with making a big deal over an offer of appointment versus any other college offer. If you consistently tell friends and family, "My DS/DD has an appointment to USNA. Isn't it exciting!...And oh by the way, he/she has been accepted to State U," your bias about where you think they should go comes through loud and clear. Many know themselves well enough to make the right call no matter what, but some will be swayed to live up to expectations, and IMO, those are the ones who have a rude awakening on I-day.

    @summer1942: No, my Mid is quite sure that this Plebe Summer is not that hard.
     
  4. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    I spoke with my plebe yesterday and he sounded good. He said his Detailers were strict and tough but decent. He said liked the care packages and that we should send more food. I didn't ask about others leaving but I understand that a number will quickly realize that this is not for them and get moved to Tango Company - they do have to stay for 30 days before they can be sent home (in most cases).
     
  5. GabsmomFL

    GabsmomFL Member

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    DD spirts were high, loving it wants more food too!
     
  6. MIDNDAD

    MIDNDAD Member

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    This is nothing new. In recent years there has been a slight change to a kinder gentler plebe summer than in past years. Results in a roughly a 2% attrition rate during plebe summer. If you go back a decade the attrition rate was roughly 5%. The difference is the ROE that the detailers are allowed to operate under.
     
  7. LongAgoPlebe

    LongAgoPlebe Member

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    Parents, please please PLEASE do not read too much into early comments or remarks like "I don't fit in" or "This isn't for me." No one fits in - not NAPSters, because NAPS is laid back and they don't really remember the two weeks of their indoc; not priors, because PS is nothing like recruit training; certainly not the 85% who come from civilian backgrounds. Almost nothing of PS is familiar. You don't get to know the campus or other students at your own pace. You don't even get much opportunity to be real with them. Who wears sailor hats and suits and marches in the middle of July?? Who learns to sail, tie knots, wind rags around leaking pipes, run in long stiff pants and boots, shower in one minute, or shouts so much they become hoarse? Better believe they don't fit in. It's not a deal-breaker, or it shouldn't be. With each momentary assault on the senses and the familiar comes relief ("they can make it harder but they can't make it longer"), and with enough of those small victories - even if the victory is surviving another day - comes the first layer in a callus.

    I know (believe me) that USNA is not for everyone, and there's just no way to impart perfect knowledge about the place so that every appointee knows precisely what s/he's getting into. However, I strongly, strongly believe that every plebe should finish PS before making a decision and I personally urge you parents to do everything you can to keep your kid there. The parts of the brain that are processing the experiences of PS are NOT the rational, thoughtful parts of the brain.
     
  8. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    My understanding was it has dropped from about 35 in 2007 to 15 or so last year.
    4 DORed on I Day, a bunch already in tango.

    Yea, it's "normal" but becomes more apparently unfortunate when we see and/or know the profiles of great kids who might have been there. Policies, populations, and stats become people, names, faces, and "statistics."

    I'm wagering summer, 2011'll be a bigger #. Place your bets @ the window.
     
  9. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Interesting. That is a significant drop. Possibly due to different ROE or better recruiting and education?
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    The coolest summer in recent history. And this summer may be one of the hottest.
     
  11. MIDNDAD

    MIDNDAD Member

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    WP I think plebe summer attrition is a relative thing that is very dependant on the ROE that the detailers are allowed to operate under. The ROE is set by the administration. You let the detailers have more lattitide and they will find creative ways to pressure everyone and they will really focus on their problem children. Natural result is higher attrition in those first 6 weeks.

    Like I said if you look back over the past decade, the administration has made a decision to not be as harsh durring plebe summer. The apparent intent is to get them past plebe summer and let the process of conduct offenses and academics take their toll to weed out the unfit. It's a policy that can be argued both ways.
     
  12. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    That'd be a nice thought. And the temperature thing is even more intriguing. I'd opine it was a Fowler-function, and a 3 year pattern. And I'd also opine that VADM Miller'll nurture a notably different approach. Perhaps we're seeing it already? :eek:

    Can you edify my ignorance? ROE? "return on envestment"?:confused:

    I'd also suggest that it is essential to lighten up that the recent change in recruitment with many appointments to candidates who would be deemed, under even recent historical standards, at least "different" and possibly substandard by those traditional standards. It does no good to change admissions policies absent changing attrition policies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  13. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Rules of Engagement
     
  14. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Thanks so much. So are you contending that behavioral expectations have changed for ... Plebes, Detailers, adjudicating officers?
     
  15. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    I wasn't contending anything. I was asking what people thought might account for the drop in Plebe Summer attrition. I have no idea.
     
  16. Craig

    Craig Member

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    Just out of curiosity, what year did they start holding NASS?
     
  17. tedsnyder63

    tedsnyder63 Member

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    The DOR on I Day...no shows or left on I Day or combination?
    A good number in Tango now? Any idea of the approximate number? Someone said they have to be in Tango 30 days...I thought it was 7, thanks
     
  18. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    My understanding is that anyone who seriously wants out is moved to Tango and that on I-Day all Plebes sign a document stating that they are committed for 30 days - hence to the thirty day wait while they are being processed out. I would imagine that only the people at USNA involved in the process know the current numbers.
     
  19. slacker

    slacker Member

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    Sorry to be a "bit" off topic, but do the other SA's have the same procedures?...

    What I mean is are they moved to another company, have the 30 day wait period, etc. As a parent of a DS, just wondering how that works and hope I don't have to cross that bridge.
     
  20. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    I can't speak for the other academies but I would think they would have a similar process. The reason I was given that the Plebes are removed from their companies was so that their potentially negative attitude does not affect the morale of the remaining Plebes.
     

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