qualified vs candidate

[flieger83]

So if our status still reads "candidate*" we are most likely not deemed competitive? Even if our SAT's are high and we can see no reason why we wouldn't be competitive? Or did you arrive at your conclusion based on the information given in this particular case? I apologize for playing twenty questions here and chiming in on someone elses question but I'm a bit curios to say the least...

Okay...

FOLKS...

Attention in the area, attention in the area!!!

Please do NOT take what I put for ONE person in ONE specific situation as "GOSPEL for all."

I can't tell ANYONE here who will or won't be getting either a BFE or a TWE. I can "make an educated guess" based upon data given me but...the convoluted methodology of USAFA/RRS is just that: convoluted. It changes for everyone, all the time, and ALO's are some of the LAST to know anything when it comes to BFE's and TWE's.

We all received a message earlier this week telling us what was being mailed out...and told us to be ready for phone calls. Oh, the online list? WON'T show up before the candidates receive their notifications!

So we're in the dark, just like you.

Again, I can speak to individual situations, but don't take any comment aimed at a specific request as "all encompassing."

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[falconfamily]

I'm not quite sure what everyone is talking about. This is still confusing for m. I am the mother of a hopeful 2016 graduate. He just started filling out his online applaication and it says "competitive", is this a good thing? Thanks for any information you can give me.

Hi Sportsmom,

There are some very experienced people here, Flieger83, Pima, Christcorp and they are great resources. You can look at these threads and glean a lot from their posts.

If you son/daughter is just starting the application process, based upon what they input, the online application will designate them as "competitive" or not. However, none of this is official until they get official SAT/ACT scores and transcripts to the academy admissions. Then upon review of the applicant, the admissions staff can determine if the applicant is competitive enough to be considered a "Candidate". An applicant with a nomination can also be considered a "Candidate". This is where it can get a bit tricky; you can have a nomination and be considered a "Candidate" in the online admissions system, yet you may not be considered competitive by the academy.

To be considered for an appointment you need to be a competitive applicant, who meets all other requirements (i.e. medical), and have a nominating source (Senator, Congressman, Presidential, etc). Hopefully this clears up the confusion a bit.

To give you some perspective, my son began this process around this time last year. First applying to Summer Seminar, then completing the USAFA application, competing for nominations, updating his application, and finally getting a decision last week. This is a LONG process. My DS has been accepted to some very selective colleges and I can honestly say that no one takes a longer and deeper look at the applicants than the service academies. The process of getting an appointment sometimes seems to be a test of your perseverance and patience. In the end, no matter what happens, the fact that your son/daughter is willing to work towards something so challenging, is a testament to their character and desire to serve. Best of luck to you.

 

[sportsmom10]

Thank you for the information!! I will continue to read these posts. It is wonderful to have a place to turn to with questions. I realize that my son needs to do some of this for himself, but I have my own questions too. Thank you again for all your information.

 

[CodyM'15]

alright its march 27 and i know nothing. i was told by my admissions counselor at the usafa that i will know by the first week of april. Do the bfe's generally get sent out before the twe's, or do they get sent out at the same times throughout the appointment period?

 

[falconfamily]

alright its march 27 and i know nothing. i was told by my admissions counselor at the usafa that i will know by the first week of april. Do the bfe's generally get sent out before the twe's, or do they get sent out at the same times throughout the appointment period?

Hi Cody, Check the other thread about notifications.

 

[flieger83]

alright its march 27 and i know nothing. i was told by my admissions counselor at the usafa that i will know by the first week of april. Do the bfe's generally get sent out before the twe's, or do they get sent out at the same times throughout the appointment period?

This I CAN answer.

There was a large (think BIG) batch of BFE's and an even bigger batch (think REALLY BIG) of TWE's sent out on Friday.

It's that time of the cycle.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[momof5]

I thought that the status was "applicant" until they became qualified. At that point the status became "candidate". So I was interpreting it wrong? I thought there were other posters who had their MOC appointment calls that said their status was still listed as "candidate".

I really like your picture of Charlie Brown!!! It seems like every day has been a "Charlie Brown" day!

Take care!

 

[falconfamily]

This I CAN answer.

There was a large (think BIG) batch of BFE's and an even bigger batch (think REALLY BIG) of TWE's sent out on Friday.

It's that time of the cycle.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

This is a sobering thought, of the 2500-3000 fully qualified candidates that the admissions board considers for an appointment (based upon class profiles), there will only be 1120 appointees who will be accepted into the academy this year. That means that there will be 1400 - 1900 fully qualified candidates who will not be offered an appointment. So no matter what your status says online, none of us knows if we are considered a "Qualified Candidate" by the admissions board. Even if we did, and knew that we were considered a fully qualified candidate, there will be thousands of fully qualified candidates who will not be appointed.

I cannot imagine how difficult it is for the admissions board to sort through all of these great applicants and choose who they will place in the class. But the sucess of the program certainly indicates that they do an incredible job of it.

 

[Mattsmom2015]

This is also a sobering thought, of the 2500-3000 fully qualified candidates that the admissions board considers for an appointment, there will only be 1120 appointees who will be accepted into the academy this year. That means that there will be thousands of fully qualified candidates will not be offered an appointment. So no matter what your status says online, none of us knows if we are considered a "Qualified Candidate" by the admissions board. Even if we did, and knew that we were considered a fully qualified candidate, there will be thousands of fully qualified candidates will not be appointed. Very, very, sobering.

Yes and very sad.

 

[Christcorp]

This is a sobering thought, of the 2500-3000 fully qualified candidates that the admissions board considers for an appointment (based upon class profiles), there will only be 1120 appointees who will be accepted into the academy this year. That means that there will be 1400 - 1900 fully qualified candidates who will not be offered an appointment. So no matter what your status says online, none of us knows if we are considered a "Qualified Candidate" by the admissions board. Even if we did, and knew that we were considered a fully qualified candidate, there will be thousands of fully qualified candidates who will not be appointed.

I cannot imagine how difficult it is for the admissions board to sort through all of these great applicants and choose who they will place in the class. But the sucess of the program certainly indicates that they do an incredible job of it.

FWIW; There are always MORE qualified individuals that DON'T get an appointment, than those who DO receive one. This is no different than just about any competitive college in the country.

 

[falconfamily]

FWIW; There are always MORE qualified individuals that DON'T get an appointment, than those who DO receive one. This is no different than just about any competitive college in the country.

CC, I agree with you totally. It's just that the USAFA application site uses terms like nominated, prospect and candiate to describe the status of the applicants. When we apply to a regular college, our applications are simply complete or not. So people are trying to figure out what it means to have a certain status and it gets very confusing. My point is that while it is good to be nominated and considered competitive as a candidate, you can't really try to interpret too much from your online status.

 

[Christcorp]

CC, I agree with you totally. It's just that the USAFA application site uses terms like nominated, prospect and candiate to describe the status of the applicants. When we apply to a regular college, our applications are simply complete or not. So people are trying to figure out what it means to have a certain status and it gets very confusing. My point is that while it is good to be nominated and considered competitive as a candidate, you can't really try to interpret too much from your online status.

Well; consider the 3000-4000 individuals who are "Qualified" as "COMPLETE" in the civilian college world. That's a pretty good acceptance rate. But just like a civilian school, there will be certain requirements that the school considers to make you competitive and qualified. Civilian schools also are concerned with diversity. They are also concerned with a "Well Rounded" applicant who has done activities, volunteer work, leadership, etc... There's not really a big difference between the academies and civilian colleges. Just what they call the applicants in the various stages of the application process.

 

[vamom]

Well; consider the 3000-4000 individuals who are "Qualified" as "COMPLETE" in the civilian college world. That's a pretty good acceptance rate. But just like a civilian school, there will be certain requirements that the school considers to make you competitive and qualified. Civilian schools also are concerned with diversity. They are also concerned with a "Well Rounded" applicant who has done activities, volunteer work, leadership, etc... There's not really a big difference between the academies and civilian colleges. Just what they call the applicants in the various stages of the application process.

This may be just a "tad" off topic, but since the online app is there, the technology is there etc., why don't the SA's leverage this tool rather than mailing out letters? It seems to me that it would be more efficient and on a certain date, all of those who have been deemed "complete" could simply log on to the online app and view the decision of the AFA admissions board. I'm not necessarily being critical....but the "letter in the mail" seems a bit outdated. But then again, I know the rule about making judgements when you don't have all of the facts. So there may be a very good reason for the mail notification. I just can't think of one!

 

[Pima]

The one beauty of the military is tradition. Take this as a part of tradition.

I understand the technology aspect, but honestly, I love the military because of that tradition aspect. Just wait, there is something that is "grand" about their traditions. Something that you can't describe to anyone until you live it. That goes from cadets wearing silver/gold prop wings to attending the annual military ball as an AD member and singing the AF song...even as a wife I know the darn words of Here We Go. It is even about the fact that cadets hand down their rank as a sign to the future generation. The military is steeped in tradition. FWIW a certain poster would have received upon commissioning Bullet's butter bars, had it not been our own DS would be commissioned into the AF. That's tradition. You hold onto all of your old rank, including mess dress shoulder bars and give them to someone as a gift for their promotion. Bullet has his O5 boards that were given to him by a close friend who received them from Gen Ashy when he made O5. Yes, his shoulder boards were Ashy's boards. He retired as a 4 star in 96, Bullet pinned on in 03, 28 yrs after Ashy.

Sometimes tradition should be seen as unique and worthy of keeping.

I hope they don't go the technological route. I hope they stay with tradition. I get that it is killing you waiting, but even if it is a TWE, you will walk away feeling like you weren't a number, that you mattered.

Also, one thing we should all put into consideration is that I think the SA route is so much better than college. They are straight up with you from day 1 on what you need to do. Unlike traditional colleges you pay a fee and wait. Here they are saying you need to jump through these hoops. It is your choice to ignore the warning signals, i.e. no nom = no apptmt.

I don't mean to be harsh, just stating my opinion.

 

[flieger83]

Tradition...

I have, in my AF career, worn:

1. My Grandfathers "Gold/Silver" Prop and Wings
2. My father's Captains/Major's rank
3. My grandfather's Lt Col Leaves (they're not clutch-backs, they have long pins, and they're not "chrome" shiny (they're sterling silver)...but VERY FEW folks will challenge you, I was never challenged)
4. My dad's eagles, including a set of "war eagles" he was given by Bruce K. Holloway...look him up. I have a signed "official AF picture" from him, given to me when I was 12: "To Steve...with best wishes and with the hope that you pursue an Air Force career! - Bruce K. Holloway

It hangs on my "I love me" wall, in a place of honor.

Some things are just...well, they transcend time.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[vamom]

The one beauty of the military is tradition. Take this as a part of tradition.

I understand the technology aspect, but honestly, I love the military because of that tradition aspect. Just wait, there is something that is "grand" about their traditions. Something that you can't describe to anyone until you live it. That goes from cadets wearing silver/gold prop wings to attending the annual military ball as an AD member and singing the AF song...even as a wife I know the darn words of Here We Go. It is even about the fact that cadets hand down their rank as a sign to the future generation. The military is steeped in tradition. FWIW a certain poster would have received upon commissioning Bullet's butter bars, had it not been our own DS would be commissioned into the AF. That's tradition. You hold onto all of your old rank, including mess dress shoulder bars and give them to someone as a gift for their promotion. Bullet has his O5 boards that were given to him by a close friend who received them from Gen Ashy when he made O5. Yes, his shoulder boards were Ashy's boards. He retired as a 4 star in 96, Bullet pinned on in 03, 28 yrs after Ashy.

Sometimes tradition should be seen as unique and worthy of keeping.

I hope they don't go the technological route. I hope they stay with tradition. I get that it is killing you waiting, but even if it is a TWE, you will walk away feeling like you weren't a number, that you mattered.

Also, one thing we should all put into consideration is that I think the SA route is so much better than college. They are straight up with you from day 1 on what you need to do. Unlike traditional colleges you pay a fee and wait. Here they are saying you need to jump through these hoops. It is your choice to ignore the warning signals, i.e. no nom = no apptmt.

I don't mean to be harsh, just stating my opinion.

Well stated, Pima! You are not harsh! I grew up in a little town on the Chesapeake Bay and my entire family on both sides is there!!! From colonization! So I value tradition more than life itself. But I guess I did not consider how very stressed out kids are notified of acceptance as a real "tradition"! But I can certainly see how one would view it that way. I think tradition is one of the most fascinating and admirable aspects of the military and I GET IT! Trust me! And you are right....I can understand how even the notification process falls into the "tradition" bucket...even though it's clearly trumped in terms of modernization by the good ole internet! But I will defer to you on this point....and I guess at the end of the day, it's a weeks difference with respect to when your DS/DD learns the results. It just seems so much more , well, efficient to leverage the internet. I mean, our service men aren't still using cannons or muskets!

 

[Christcorp]

Outside of tradition, there is another reason for MAILING appointments and rejection letters.

You have to remember that the academy is NO DIFFERENT than any other college or university in their "Recruiting" of new students. Why do other colleges/universities still mail out information, brochures, forms, etc... Psychologically, it's a rush. You've got all these beautiful pictures and booklets. You've got this really nice letter that looks "PERSONAL" that says congratulations and how PROUD your country is of you. All the paperwork looks so "Official". It's very impressive to the applicant, AND THEIR FAMILY when they see it in the mail. And then...... to take that 1 INDIVIDUAL piece of paper out.... that basically says: "SIGN HERE TO ACCEPT". Makes it feel so much more official. Trust me; you young'ins and techno-geeks (I have degrees in computer science and electronic engineering; so I'm a geek to); might believe that TECHNOLOGICALLY, email and online is better; but you REALLY NEED to take some psychology courses. (That was my first degree major). You'd be surprised at how effective "Marketing" is. There is a totally different response when the TACTILE SENSES are used to FEEL the pamphlet, booklet, and acceptance letter in your hand, compared to just the visual sensory of reading it online.

Why do credit card companies and everyone else still send you physical "You've been pre-approved" instead of just email. 1) Email can be blocked as spam, or LOST innocently. 2) An individual; especially an 18+ year old young person feels MORE IMPORTANT when they have a physical piece of mail with an official letter addressed to them, in their hands.

I can see the: "Sorry dude/dudette; try again next year" letter being done online. But the BFE needs to be physically mailed. You want that in their hands. You want them to be as excited as possible. Plus, it requires signatures anyway. (No, this kind of stuff can't really be electronically signed. It's contractual and too important.) Plus; many of these applicants are 17 years old, and require their parent's signature also. Anyway; the BFE needs to be mailed.

 

[Pima]

No they are not using cannons, but also if you look at the Army they still have members wearing Cavalry covers, and there are no horses either.

That is something you actually learn to love regarding the military.

When Bullet retired in 08 he handed DS his flight jacket. That flight jacket had Blood Chits. DS never wore it for 3 yrs until last month when he was selected for UPT. That's tradition. The jacket BTW is 22 yrs old, cracked leather and all. However, when he wore it other cadets felt the same as Flieger did with his grandfather's O5's clusters. Nobody is about to challenge you because they actually want to know the history.

There is so much tradition in the military, and the further you go down the path the more you will say I get it. Scratched up prop wings mean more to cadets than spanking new ones. Beat up flight jacket means more.

Many cadets take great pride in being the next step in the heritage/tradition.

It is hard to grasp currently, but in a few yrs you will get it.

 

[hunterjumper67]

I can handle the bad news. I rather know what we are dealing with. She is still walking to the mailbox everyday and I just wanted a reality check. We know that her SAT probably doesn't qualify her but the House Rep board was so impressed with her package that I think they wanted her to have a chance. At least that is the only reason I can think off they would have given her a nomination. There was no lack of competitors. That said I prepared her early that if she was lucky (because of the SAT) she would go to prep school and she said would be excited about that also. She said she will do whatever it takes. I read what (I think it was you) you posted about the multiple people you knew that went to prep school first and did great in the USAFA and their careers and I heard that from her ALO also. I actually think prep school is a nice in between step to get used living the Academy life. Would have loved for her to get straight in but I kind of like the idea of the prep school to. Just hope she can get in. Not very familiar with the Falcon Scholarship. I didn't know anything about that until I got on this forum. I wish I had gotten on this forum earlier but like I said she didn't want me involved in any of it because she said the ALO told her she had to do it all by herself. You have been a wealth of information. Thank you so much for all you do.

 

[vamom]

Outside of tradition, there is another reason for MAILING appointments and rejection letters.

You have to remember that the academy is NO DIFFERENT than any other college or university in their "Recruiting" of new students. Why do other colleges/universities still mail out information, brochures, forms, etc... Psychologically, it's a rush. You've got all these beautiful pictures and booklets. You've got this really nice letter that looks "PERSONAL" that says congratulations and how PROUD your country is of you. All the paperwork looks so "Official". It's very impressive to the applicant, AND THEIR FAMILY when they see it in the mail. And then...... to take that 1 INDIVIDUAL piece of paper out.... that basically says: "SIGN HERE TO ACCEPT". Makes it feel so much more official. Trust me; you young'ins and techno-geeks (I have degrees in computer science and electronic engineering; so I'm a geek to); might believe that TECHNOLOGICALLY, email and online is better; but you REALLY NEED to take some psychology courses. (That was my first degree major). You'd be surprised at how effective "Marketing" is. There is a totally different response when the TACTILE SENSES are used to FEEL the pamphlet, booklet, and acceptance letter in your hand, compared to just the visual sensory of reading it online.

Why do credit card companies and everyone else still send you physical "You've been pre-approved" instead of just email. 1) Email can be blocked as spam, or LOST innocently. 2) An individual; especially an 18+ year old young person feels MORE IMPORTANT when they have a physical piece of mail with an official letter addressed to them, in their hands.

I can see the: "Sorry dude/dudette; try again next year" letter being done online. But the BFE needs to be physically mailed. You want that in their hands. You want them to be as excited as possible. Plus, it requires signatures anyway. (No, this kind of stuff can't really be electronically signed. It's contractual and too important.) Plus; many of these applicants are 17 years old, and require their parent's signature also. Anyway; the BFE needs to be mailed.

Christcorp, you have no idea how much I have smiled reading your response. Because

1) I am just an old mom, ready to be put out to pasture soon, I'm sure. Took typing in HS, no computer class EVER. Self-taught, and that explains a LOT of things, trust me!
2) I have a double major in Mass Communications and Public Relations and have worked in the field for many years (with a minor in French...use that a WHOLE lot heh heh)
3) I worked in the "Non-Risk Bearing" Division of CAPITAL ONE for 10 years (so funny that you mentioned credit cards...yep, I get that too!)

So I know, both intellectually and intuitively, that everything you posted is true. Why do I want the online version? Because I'm an IMPATIENT MOTHER!!! AND THAT TRUMPS ALL, INCLUDING GOOD SENSE!

Also, every male member of my family and that of my husbands has served in the military, albeit Navy. My Great Great Great Grandfather was a fairly significant figure in the Civil War and is noted in local history books(you can guess which side). So please do not think that I take tradition lightly OR that I don't understand the advantages of the snail mail method on the psyche. I do. I guess I'm just a mom who wants to know what the future will hold for my youngest and only DS as I send him out into the world. But I guess I can wait +1week since the pros of the USPS do seem to outweigh the cons. The white flag is raised.