Ranking academies for MOCs when interested in multiple academies

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by USMAROTCFamily, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    172
    This question really is applicable to all academies. If you live in a state where the MOCs coordinate their nominations to get as many kids on the slates, and they will only nominate to 1 academy, but you are interested in 2 of the academies, what is the best course of action? For example, would you list USNA as your top choice with one Senator and USMA as your top choice with the other Senator, and perhaps your true "top" choice with your Representative in hopes that you could secure a nomination to both academies from the 3 sources? Or would there be another strategy? I've seen postings here, about potential candidates applying to multiple academies, but not being offered an appointment to the academy for which they have secured the nomination, but the other academy offering an appointment, but they have no nomination! If the goal is to serve, regardless of academy, it seems like the "politics" of the nomination process can be a real impediment to the process. While I think it is noble to give as many kids the chance to compete for an appointment, it seems as though they would want to list the top 10 best qualified applicants for the opportunities.
     
  2. time2

    time2 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    270
    You can probably search back on similar prior discussion threads on this subject. As I recall those discussions, the general recommendation is to put down one's honest priority on all applications. I would not try to 'game' the system by trying to outguess what you think your MOC does/does not do. If a MOC happens to find out you juggled the order on different applications, could be awkward explaining why you did that.
     
  3. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    I agree. If you would TRULY be happy at more than one SA, then "splitting" your MOC noms is fine. However, if you have a true first choice, splitting your noms puts you in position to get an appointment for your "lesser" choice. I've seen that happen.
     
  4. Grad/Dad

    Grad/Dad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Work the system

    We live in one of those states (WI) where they only give a nomination to one Academy. Each year the MOC's put together an Academies days where Cadets/Mids and representatives from all of the Academies come together to make presentations and answer questions. The Senators Offices were very clear on this topic as it comes up every year. They warned against "working the system" because they compare notes on candidates before making their recommendations. If you put down 2 different 1st choices, they will not know which is really your first choice and will chose for you in a manner that best fits their slates. In Wisconsin, they also check with the Congressman's office and will not award a nomination if the Congressman is going to do so. It sucks but we had to make the choice of Academies when my DS submitted his nomination paperwork in October. In the end it worked out because he received a Principal nomination from the Congressman and the Senators only gave competitive nominations.
     
  5. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    No, it's not. :wink:
     
  6. bpu

    bpu Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do people always do what they say they do? No.
    Are exceptions sometimes made? Yes

    DS was given same song and dance that rep and senators did not duplicate but he received two noms to the same academy.
    DS was told at rep nom interview by one academy rep board that unless he changed his academy preference for that academy to first choice he would not get a nom to that academy. He got rep noms to all three. (He ended up accepting appointment to third choice on the rep preference and said no to his others by the way.)

    Granted, I think there was some incompetence with the rep's office admin staff and he did have a strong application and a good well researched answer for his interviews why he was still somewhat conflicted on his first choice.

    Do some research, talk to people in your district on the academies, etc. You may be able to pick a true #1. Also, you may find out from your rep's office that they have typically 30 apps for 10 nom slots and 15 of those 30 are excellent candidates. No help there. However, you may find out they usually have 15 apps for 10 nom slots and only 7-8 are great candidates. MAYBE they may make an exception and nominate you for a second academy IF you have a great application and IF you have really good reasons why you are still very interested in applying fully to more than one academy.

    Given how hyper-competitive the academies have become in just the past few years with reduced class sizes this "option" is likely less viable today, but worth exploring - for the knowledge gained if nothing else.
     
  7. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    "If the goal is to serve," also apply to the Coast Guard Academy, no nomination required; Merchant Marine Academy, I have not seen anyone not getting a nomination to Merrchant Marine Academy when asked for one; and ROTC, no nomination required.

    Why bother with top 10 best qualified applicants? The ugly truth is that in any district, unless an applicant is within top 5 or higher, an applicant has no chance of an appointment. Nomination is required for an appointment, it doesn't influence your academic, physical and medical qualifications. When MOCs determine "qualified," they are using their own standard, not SAs.
     
  8. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    First, in some highly competitive districts, 8 or even 10 of the 10 nominees may ultimately receive appointments. Seen it happen. 10 nominees are chosen for various reasons: some end up going ROTC (had it happen this year to 2 LOA/appointment recipients), some drop out for medical reasons, some don't pass the CFA, some the SA doesn't want.

    You are correct that an MOC's view of a candidate may not be the same as USNA's (or any SA's). That's why receiving a nom is great but not the end all and be all of the process.

    As crazy as the system may sometimes seem, Congress created it and only Congress can change it. The SAs (other than USCGA and, to some extent USMMA) simply have to live with it.:rolleyes:
     
  9. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    The other extreme is several years ago, a district in MD had no qualified candidate for WP.

    "8 or even 10 of the 10 nominees may ultimately receive appointments" is bit misleading in respect to MOC nominating full 10 will only come into play if after the vacancy winner(s) the remaining nominees got their appointments from the National Waiting List, which is highly unlikely.

    I am trying to (not doing an effective job) explain to SA applicants that although getting MOC nomination is a great accomplishment, but if you are not competitive applicant it won't really matter.
     
  10. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    ^^^

    Agree. I should have been clear that some who have MOC noms also have Pres noms and it's hard to know to whom the appointee was slotted (the MOC will clearly take credit!).

    Back to "splitting" noms (subject of the original post), the candidate has to weigh his/her preference for one SA over another vs. getting into any SA. It's easy to say that, "If you want to serve, you'll go anywhere," but that's not realistic. WP and USAFA, for example, are two very different experiences as are the USA and the USAFA. Not always would someone be equally happy at either.

    Here's the question to ask yourself if you "split" noms: If I get an appointment to A vs. B, will I be disappointed? If the answer is "yes," go with your first choice. If your answer is "No; I'll be happy either way," then there is an advantage to splitting noms and hoping you'll get an appointment to someplace -- especially in competitive areas.

    The above poster who said that, even though some MOCs who say they only give one appointment period or only one appointment among all 3 to any one SA and it doesn't always work that way . . .that's true. Various things happen. However, you can't control that. Focus on what YOU want rather than what they might do or not do.
     
  11. Kram1

    Kram1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where are you from. I volunteer as an admissions rep for the Merchant Marine Academy and in my area your comment regarding the Merchant Marine Academy is absolutely incorrect. But, have no clue where your district might be.
     

Share This Page