Really?

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by navy2016, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

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    My local recruiters tell me that NROTC officers get more respect than USNA officers? Could this remotely be true?

    I realize job performance will ultimately dictate the level of respect an officer earns, but what about the initial perspective?

    Also, do recruiters get paid per NROTC applicant? I have heard of recruiters lying from stories. Although their job is to recruit, I do not think they should give applicants lies. I have seen posts stating that students should find a BGO for information on SA not a recruiter.
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    "Ring Knocking" can have a negative connotation. Recruiters have quotas to fill.

    I looked at USNA and a NROTC scholarship. My recruiter associated with the NROTC wasn't anything but professional. He was happy for me once I decided I was going to USCGA and I was happy for him because he was working with one of my friends. I saw him at my graduation even (for someone else)!
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    99% of the people you meet in your career will not know your commissioning source unless you tell them. Or wear your ring. The latter is NOT a recommended course of action.
     
  4. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    No it's not. You get respect from being squared away and approachable by your soldiers and being seen as mature,reliable and a fast learner by your boss, and from your fellow junior officers- they will look for all of the above but also someone who can have a good time. It won't take them long to form a first impression, and really where you went to school will factor in very little.

    It will be among your peers that where you went to school will factor in the most initially- and that's mostly a function of whether you get into your new unit and continue to swim in the same social pond that you inhabited at the academy. If you do- then the ROTC guys will look at you as a ring knocker. But if you rapidly expand your circles to include guys not from school- they won't resent you (and IMHO the reason that as an O1 they may resent an Academy grad peer will have more to do with the reality that he will have classmates in his immediate unit who he can continue to sing "Navy Blue and Gold" and yak rhapsodically about the good old days in Crabtown with, while the likelihood of an ROTC guy having a good buddy from college in close proximity will be a lot lower).

    As far as the recruiter: he is giving his audience what he thinks will get them to sign on his dotted line compared to someone else's line. Reality- there is no absolute truth when it comes to things like opinions about what is "better" in unquantifiable situations. He's doing his job- and he may even be relating his personal experience or one that he heard on his 14th beer at the OClub. He's not lying- but that doesn't mean he's relating anything other than an anecdote that is only valid for the person relating it.
     
  5. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Your Sailors or Marines could care less where you went to school. Some will be curious and ask, but for the most part they could care less. Those who choose to still live in their college glory days once they hit the fleet will not fit in well with their fellow officers and the enlisted will think you are immature. As mentioned above, as an Academy guy the chances of running into someone you know and the bonding of the school with other grads will always be there, but there is a time and place for that. Bottom line, regardless of commissioning source, when you hit the fleet, keep your eyes and ears open and learn as much as possible. There are bad apples from every commissioning source, folks tend to remember the bad ones unfortuntately. Your recruiter has a goal and they are telling you a line in order to get you to sign. Pick what school is best for you and your goals.
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    You must be hearing from different Navy sailors than I have, because there is a negative stigma in some communities with academy grads.

    As has been said, the bad ones tend to hurt the reputation of the rest. Some service members will say that a "mustang" gets them because they started in the same place. Reality, there are bad mustangs too, and some service members would be interested to know commissioning sources.

    No reason to wear the ring in the field/fleet.

    I didn't wear it on my ship. I did put it back on when I got to CGHQ....where half of the population seems to be from CGA and people wear "dressier" uniforms than the fleet. Since I left, I wear the ring all the time...seems to be the only thing linking me back....can't wear the uniform, or the big medals, and wearing my mini-medals won't happen. I do wear the lapel pin version of my medal....but not often.

    You hear the negative comments more often as a third party than when you're in "the thick of it". Some of that is warranted, some of it isn't.
     
  7. vira

    vira Surfrider

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    My Marine recruiter told me that ringknockers and NROTC are too inexperienced and stuck up and the best officers are always mustangs. They also prefer OCS over the former two
     
  8. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    You probably should learn to discount 75% of what people tell you when they give you opinions- and anybody who tells you "the best" or "always"- probably ought to be discounted about 95%. In this case- I would discount it 99%. To begin with- there aren't that many "mustangs", so the guy is really telling you that he doesn't count on 2d Lieutenants for much. (No surprise there- you will discover if you make it to active duty that the difference between school and the real Army is enormous and the major responsibility of a 2LT is to learn from his Platoon Sergeant about reality and gradually gain experience and the authority that goes with it. You may legally outrank that NCO- but you typically don't know much about the day to day mechanics of life as a soldier.) As far as OCS- you won't meet all that many OCS grads relative to USMA or ROTC grads in the Army.

    If you want to be respected- it doesn't matter where you are coming from- you will be respected for who you are fundamentally (honest/hard working/intelligent or lazy, immature, unreliable are the two extremes) and what you do. You can wear your ring or not. If you are fouled up it won't help save you; and if you are a squared away LT, then one of your soldiers someday will come up to you and ask you about it because he admires you- and that is a phenomenal feeling when it happens.
    Don't kid yourself or listen to some recruiter pass gas about stuff like this- it's one clown's opinion and you know what they can be compared to.:eek:
     
  9. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Of course, the next step would be to ask Marines what they think of recruiters....


    OCS is made up of a variety of folks, some prior service, some straight from college. Its amazed me to hear grumblings about certain "bad" officers, only to find out that they are mustangs.

    There are good and bad in every commissioning source. I tend to not trust the guy or girl in a cushy job who's purpose in life is to get someone to sign on the dotted line (is it dotted?).
     
  10. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Respect is mostly earned.

    In the Army, there is some don't like West Pointers, aka "A ring knocker." At the same time, we also get some respect from graduating from West Point. The initial perpsective will only last for the moment the initial knowledge is gained - after that most people will either forget about it or reinforce their bias based on the performance by "he/she is good/bad becuase ROTC/SA" and like goes on.
     
  11. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

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    If someone comes direct from college, they will be less experienced than USNA and NROTC grads.....

    But I do understand why a prior enlisted that went officer would receive high respected initially, regardless of which path he/she took to earn the commission.
     
  12. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Not sure if this equates to respect but something like 80% of the CO's of our SSBN/SSGN are NA grads.
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Your statement should be laminated and read to every newly commissioned officer. Great post and well said.

    I happened to be one of those "Mustangs" back in the day, I never felt more or less superior then any of my peers.

    I have a son commisioning this May from AROTC, we have had many talks throughout his time at school about the "Respect" issue. When he returned from Airborne School he told me he really got a clear understanding of everything we had talked about. He could see the attitudes of different cadets that were among the AD Army and how they interacted....I think he got the point.

    Last summer he was able to do his CTLT with the 82nd Airborne, he was given a platoon because their LT had just left for Ranger School. He was able to see how important it was to learn everything he could from the NCO's. When he was set to leave the First Seargent took him aside and told him that if chose the infantry branch he would make a good officer, my son said that was the best compliment he has ever received, yeah dad was proud.

    I certainly have to agree with everything you said.

    VIRA, Stop listening to the recruiters.
     
  14. vira

    vira Surfrider

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    I'm not really "listening" to the recruiters, more of I'm giving their opinion because the OP gave the opinion of his local recruiters. I really do believe "respect" is given to those who earned it, especially to the ones who have gained the trusts of the troops they lead
     
  15. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    As a wounded Marine Seargant once told me: We train 2ND Luitenants to be Captains. TBS company review statement for a USNA graduate: "Will never be a marine." Guess they forgot to look at the fruit salad.
     
  16. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

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    I asked a cadet during SLS earlier this year if it was true that West Point grads are looked down at by other servicemen (I heard something about that). The cadet answered SOMETHING like: "Well, it probably boils down to what experience such servicemember had with a West Point grad. If he had good experiences, great, he probably won't look down upon you based off your commissioning source. If he had bad experiences, than it's really his point of view." But I suppose it makes a lot of sense keeping your ring out of sight. Afterall, what we are looking for are great officers - not NROTC grads, USNA grads or whatever other commissioning source grads... at least that's how I think servicemembers worry about.
     
  17. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Substitute He for He/She and this works:

    http://combat.ws/S4/SAMIZDAT/GOOD~OFF.HTM

    Doesn't depend upon where they are commissioned as a ring knocker or ROTC or OCS. A good one is a good one and a bad one is a bad one. Ninety Nine percent of mine were very good but one percent can be very very bad for a long period of time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011

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