Rejected again...

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by dparrish209, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. dparrish209

    dparrish209 Member

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    Well today I officially received a TWE. I have to admit, I am surprised (even though I know the competition is quite fierce and that there are many great candidates) considering I had a 4.0 college GPA along with my sports, community service etc. and that it is my second time applying. I thought I would least receive a QNV like I did last year, as opposed to a full on rejection. Ohh well, I digress. AFROTC it is!!!!
     
  2. LFry94

    LFry94 USAFA C1C '17

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    What's the difference between the TWE and the QNV? I thought they were the same. :confused: Sorry to hear that you were not accepted even after reapplying! With a 4.0 college GPA I know you'll commission through ROTC. Keep up the good work!
     
  3. Insider

    Insider Member

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    USAFA no longer sends QNVs, so don't read anything into that. Best wishes to you for your future AF career!
     
  4. RaptorDad

    RaptorDad Member

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    Say it isn't so!! I know it's all about the WCS, not just each element in the equation--but, doggies! You sound like you're doing all the right things. I feel for you...since Raptor will be in a similar situation when he reapplies, I would have hoped you would have gotten the appointment to show him the way.

    Insider: thanks for all the advice and info. What is the best way for these candidates to get feedback on areas that need improvement or that might have hurt their chances?
     
  5. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I know you didn't ask me, but let me comment please. This is probably the hardest question I've heard asked in the last 6-7 years. And I hear it all the time.

    All anyone can do; is their best. And only the individual knows if they indeed did their best. Could they have done better in some areas? Obviously yes, or they would have received an appointment. I have seen first hand where an individual had a 4.0gpa for 4 straight years of high school; ALL AP classes; practically aced the ACT 34-36 in all areas; and they didn't receive an appointment. For them, the answer was easy. Academics is all that they had. They had no sports, little if any leadership, little EC's, etc... But for the average candidate, the answer is more difficult. They have the 3.90-4.0gpa in the most difficult classes. They have the 30+ ACT and/or 2000+ SAT. They played sports, had leadership, etc...

    So what areas could they have improved in? That is the million dollar question. The answer unfortunately is: "It Depends". Even if I was your ALO and could see and analyze all of your scores, there #1 variable that I wouldn't know is: "Your Competition". See, your competition isn't the other 12,000+ applicants. Your competition is at least 2 categories. 1) The others who received a nomination from the same place you did; e.g. representative, senator, president, etc... Whatever slate that is. 2) If you didn't receive an appointment from that slate, then your competition is the pool along with all the others from all the various slates that also didn't receive an appointment. That's what makes it so difficult. We don't know your competition.

    And this is where a lot of people sort of get upset. An individual who received an appointment on one slate, could have a lower overall score than someone who didn't receive an appointment on another slate. But because all Americans pay taxes or at least are represented in our government, US Code Title 10 allows for equal representation at the military academies for a portion of the class. I.e. each MOC is allowed 5 cadets at the academy at one time charged to them; up to 100 presidential appointees per year; etc... Basically, more than 50% of all appointees represent their district, state, or as a representative of military affiliation. The academies then make up the remainder of the class from all those with nominations not selected from their appropriate nomination slate.

    So in theory, the slate you had a nomination for, had at least one other nominee who had a higher overall score than you did. Your same score could have easily been the highest last year; possibly the highest next year. But this year, it wasn't. And it could have been higher than those from a different nomination slate, but you aren't on that slate so that's a moot point.

    This is one area where some people advertise and promote the coast guard academy. Because of such a small class size, they don't use nominations. The academy chooses all appointments themselves. They still look for diversity; meaning different parts of the country, states, etc... Merchant Marines are similar. They require a nomination, but they don't have a minimum number from each state/district because they too are small. The big-3 are set by law to appoint "X" amount to represent each district and state, and the rest from the pool.

    So sorry if I didn't give you the answer you were looking for. I assume that you've seen enough times what the average class profile looks like. HS GPA 3.86+; all advanced classes; 29-30 ACT, 90+% played varsity sports; leadership; etc... If you know you don't have some of these "Averages", then that's obviously an area that you can improve on. But if you are well within or above the averages, then the answer is "Depends". It depends on what your competition looks like. I know this might not help you much, but the question and similar during the "What are my chances" phase shows up a lot by posters. Hopefully they will realize how difficult it is to determine an individual's chances; what they can do better; etc... I simply tell applicants. "Don't worry about the minimum standards..... Don't worry about the averages..... Your goal is to have a 4.0gpa; take all the hardest classes; get a 36 ACT and 2400 SAT; be captain of your sports team; be class president; etc..." In other words, do the best you can. Try to be the #1 appointee in the country. This way, even if you aren't #1 on your slate, you'll be #2 in the country and you'll get selected from another slate or from the national pool. Best of luck.... mike....
     
  6. bandad

    bandad Member

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    Christcorp,

    Sent you a PM.

    bandad
     
  7. bandad

    bandad Member

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    dparrish209,
    Just reading one post from you I can see that you have the attributes that will make you successful in this crazy world, e.g., honesty, humility, excellence, and perseverance. The Best to you in AFROTC!!!

    bandad
     
  8. Wyofalcon

    Wyofalcon Member

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    The fight isn't over yet. My ALO informed me that a BFE can be received even after a TWE comes out. If you are qualified you may be drawn into a national pool of applicants and could hear anytime as late as the beginning of June. Still makes full plans to pursue option B. But be aware that you may still receive your appointment. Also Prep School appointees all get a TWE before they receive there PS offer a few weeks (or months) later. In my email (forwarded directly from Congressman from the Academy) it stated something along the lines of "this email nullifies any previous contact the Academy has made with you regarding an appointment" read into that however you like, but to me that is clearly stating that if you have gotten a TWE then your BFE may still come, making your TWE gone. I'm not trying to raise your hopes to much because of the terribly small class size, but a little hope is never bad.

    USAFA Class of 2016 Appointee
     
  9. cchung34

    cchung34 Member

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    Following up on what CC said, I realized the unfairness of the impact of the nominations on people. I come from CA, a highly competitive state, along with a REALLY competitive district (some schools include Oxford Academy, Whitney High School - schools that are top 5 NATIONALLY)

    I realized that what I wanted to do was serve my country - that was my MAIN goal. Other factors that I needed in colleges was the availability of my major and the possiblity of flight school. WP, Annapolis, and Kings Point are FANTASTIC schools; however they didn't have the majors that I was interested in. USAFA (my dream school since 3rd grade) and USCGA had these three factors. I applied to both, USAFA because it was my dream school and USCGA because it qualified my three terms and did not require a nomination.

    At that time, I was freaking out if I were even eligibile to receive a nomination from my district (we had about ~40 people for a nomination slot in AFA) Again, I am from a competitive district. I accepted the fact that I may not receive an appointment letter, let alone a nomination. Therefore, I knew that applying to USCGA was essential because of the chance that I may not even receive a nomination and my application journal would just end there.

    In December, I received my nomination to AFA. I was beyond thrilled, I finally had a chance to qualify to become an Air Force cadet at AFA.

    In January, I got my acceptance letter from CGA and felt relief because this was my #2 school. If I didn't get accepted into AFA, CGA was the school for me!

    After weeks and weeks of contemplation, I had an epiphany. No offense to AFA, but their main focus is combat, which I didn't really like. CGA focuses on humanitarian missions. So would I rather save a person's life or kill it? haha, I guess if I were in CGA and were commanded to kill an enemy, I would - but I prefer to save lives :shake: I'm not saying that I'm going to be a disobedient officer and allow enemies to burn/kill America, but if given the choice to avoid situations like that, I would definitely stray away! :) CGA looked much more favorable to me after that whole thought process and I was 90% sure that I would commit to CGA.

    A week ago, I received my rejection letter from AFA. I did have hopes up because I received a nomination from a competitve district; however, my competitors probably had a higher score than me. But instead of crying about my TWE, I felt happy. A huge burden for the past...let's see, I applied in September...6 MONTHS was completely gone! And I had my option of attending a Service Academy because I was qualified and picked in the Early Action slot for CGA! This rejection further confirmed my 90% commitment to CGA to a 100% commitment! I am going to be a Coast Guard officer, Class of 2016!

    I'm not sure why I dragged on and on about my little journey through college applications. Maybe I'm trying to influence future applicants to apply to CGA in case their nominations may backfire. Maybe not. But for whatever reason, I had this need to share it on the forums.

    Good luck to everyone, in whatever you do! Make sure that the college you attend best represents who you are as a person and don't let prestige get to you! If service academies don't work out, try ROTC or even enlist and go towards OCS. If you're on these forums, I'm guessing you desire the military route but if you get rejected from the SA's - don't lose hope, God has a different plan for you to shine in!
     
  10. michigander

    michigander Member

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    We're from the same district.
     
  11. burnerafter16

    burnerafter16 Member

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    to generalize that USAFA's focus is combat and "to kill vs to save" is just plain ignorant! just because you didn't get your first choice doesn't mean you can minimize what deserving others have achieved. otherwise you come across as the typical sour grape.
    congratulations to all who have been appointed and have received ROTC scholarships or have had to resort to plan "B". everyone had to try their darndest best to get to where they are.
     
  12. nuensis

    nuensis USNA 2016

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    Sounds like CA-40, Hon. Ed Royce? Yes?

    Competition for nominations this year was scary, especially for Air Force. I'm glad to have received one to Navy at all. I had an LOA and didn't even make the cut for an interview from the senators.

    I may be a squid wannabe, but I have tons of respect for the Air Force applicants this year. You guys went up against ridiculous odds with the same heart and dedication as the rest of us. BZ.
     
  13. falconfamily

    falconfamily Member

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    Good Luck CCHUNG!

    First of all congrats to you CCHUNG, the USCGAis a fine school and you will be serving your country. I don't know why anyone would criticize your rationale, it is important for young people to consider what their commitment might be about. Good Luck!
     
  14. USNA2016Dad

    USNA2016Dad Member

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    No Making the Cut in CA

    Hi nuensis,
    From what I understand, what you wrote in your post above may not be what actually happened. I spoke with a staffer from a CA US senator several months ago at a USNA admissions road show. I learned the congressional delegation from CA understands that a successful applicant to an SA only needs 1 nomination. Once congressmen nominate their applicants those names are reviewed by the senators' SA nominations staff. If an applicant has a nomination from his district's congressman, they aren't considered any further by the senate staff. This way the congressmen and senators from CA can nominate the most number of applicants allowed. IMHO, I think it is the best way of granting nominations because it allows the most number of applicants a shot at the ring. I've long wondered, does it really matter that an applicant has more than 1 nomination? BZ on your appointment to USNA.
    Cheers...
     
  15. nuensis

    nuensis USNA 2016

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    That's probably what happened, now that I think of it. Disappointing that I didn't even get some kind of notification though. They probably thought (rightfully) that the LOA and one nomination would be enough.

    Not that it matters now, though.

    Thanks.
     
  16. BobBigBoy

    BobBigBoy Member

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    DD is a recruited athlete and received an LOA in October but the nomination process was very interesting. Congressman's aide was great and very communicative. Didn't require her to go into a formal interview, gave her a nomination and ranked here ninth out of ten on the slate because of the LOA. Sen. Boxer's aide called and was very impressed with her achievements and wanted to conduct a phone interview for the nomination...very positive and proactive. Once they were told of her congressional nomination, they were very complimentary and congratulatory...a great experience that left her feeling good.
    Given the first two experiences you would think we would have had a similar response from Sen. Feinstein...didn't even hear from her staff. Not even a letter acknowledging receipt of the application, nothing.
    Not sure how or if they are working together in California but given our experience, it doesn't appear so.
    Congratulations on your acceptance and best of luck on the next stage of your life!
     
  17. USAFA_2012

    USAFA_2012 Member

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    hey man, if you still got one more shot in you, go for it!! maybe do AFROTC for a year -- i know that helps a lot with setting yourself apart.

    but basically, don't give up! there is no substitute for being a part of the long, blue, line :thumb:
     
  18. michigander

    michigander Member

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    Yup! So many USAFA wannabes including me. I think it was around 42. I missed getting a nom from Hon. Ed Royce by 2 candidates. Thank God I received one from another source. But in the end, still a TWE. There's always next year!
     
  19. USAFA: 2016!

    USAFA: 2016! Member

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    If it helps, none of us did. Both years I applied to USAFA, I applied to the Senators and both years, I didn't even receive acknowledgement that they had gotten my paperwork. Thank goodness for MOC's! :thumb:
     
  20. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    cchung; 1st; congratulations on your appointment to the coast guard academy. I am only replying because your last post was in response to mine. While I'm glad you received an appointment to the coast guard, and I'm sure you are rationalizing to an extent; please don't diminish or look down on those who did choose and were appointed to the air force academy.

    Each of the 3 main branches of the military, "Army, Navy/Marines, and Air Force" are part of the "Department of Defense". There is a reason for that. The coast guard use to be in the department of the treasury; then the department of transportation; and currently under the department of homeland security. And in time of war, part of the department of the navy. And there is a reason for that too. Each has their roles and missions. All important to the overall success and freedom of the United States.

    But to classify one mainly as offensive; war oriented; designed to kill vs saving lives is as another poster mentioned, very ignorant. I'm sure part of your comment was simply rationalizing your non-acceptance to the air force academy and acceptance to coast guard. That's understandable. But trying to defend that rationalization is like arguing how can a christian be in the military if it means they might have to kill some one. The coast guard is not exempt from possibly having to kill people. The coast guard isn't just about saving civilians aboard ships out at sea. It include drug interdiction, homeland security with local terrorism, and being assigned to the navy in time of war. I spent quite a bit of time with the coast guard in the gulf of mexico in the 80's with drug interdiction. And believe it or not, there are/were coast guard ships and personnel in the middle east during our military campaigns there. So no, the coast guard isn't designed to save lives vs the other branches of the military who are designed to kill.

    So again; I'm happy for you. The coast guard academy is a fine military academy and excellent institution. And while it's understandable for you to rationalize your appointment to the coast guard, don't undermine or demean the others. The nomination process is not unfair. It just seems that way at times, especially if you're not one of the fortunate ones to receive an appointment. If you look at Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and many other top schools, they have very similar acceptance rates. There's a lot of 4.0gpa students from very competitive schools that do not get into those schools either. And for what it's worth, not all districts in California is that competitive. There are some that have a difficult time getting applicants. If you lived in one of those districts and had received an appointment to the air force academy, I'm sure that your attitude would be totally different and you wouldn't have written the post you recently did.

    Either way; congrats and best of luck to you. Mike....
     

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