Religious Bigotry at West Point (?)

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by BigBear, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    A friend (and fellow cadet), just shared this link on Facebook:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-page/west-point-religious-freedom_b_2232279.html

    The article was written by a current Firstie. He makes some pretty serious accusations - "countless officers here and throughout the military are guilty of blatantly violating the oaths they swore to defend the Constitution. These men and women are criminals, complicit in light of day defiance of the Uniform Code of Military Justice through unconstitutional proselytism, discrimination against the non-religious and establishing formal policies to reward, encourage and even at times require sectarian religious participation. "

    Personally, I have never seen anything of this nature during my time here at the Academy. What I have heard so far is that this kid had a hard time getting DCA to support an Atheist club and has been shut down several times when trying to get things changed (3rd Reg crest, the Christmas tree lighting, etc.).

    :thumbdown:
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Wowzaaa.... those are some lofty claims.

    Just another box to check on how "thorough" Huffington Post is with the garbage is produces.

    "We need a whining college student!"

    "Ohh ohhh I got one, from West Point!"

    "Too birds with one stone, crying young adult, make the Army look bad, PERFECT!"
     
  3. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I'm just tired of all the hypocrisy. We all have a belief or opinion on how we, mankind, the planet, etc... has come to be. And we all recognize those beliefs in our own way. It really pea's me off when I am expected to respect a person's belief/opinion/position/etc... but they AREN'T required or expected to respect mine. There shouldn't even be a discussion on whether or not the academy, military, town hall, etc... can put up a christmas tree, wreath, display, manger, etc... As long as that body allows the others to recognize their beliefs with equal access and time, then they need to shut the hell up. If a muslim, jew, atheist, wican, etc... isn't allowed equal time to symbolize or celebrate their beliefs; then I will be the first person in line to slam dunk. But to say "My belief doesn't recognize what you're demonstrating or advertising, therefor you can't do it"; is pure 100% crap.

    Cadet Blake Page is a certified IDIOT!!! He's a hypocrite. He has absolutely no idea what the constitution says or means. He has absolutely no idea what the oath he took means. Our constitution simply says that the government will not ESTABLISH a religion. And it will not impede the free exercise of religion. The military and government aren't telling anyone that they MUST be a Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, etc.... Nor, are they prohibiting anyone from exercising their belief in whatever religion they believe in. And this is where Cadet Page demonstrates his IGNORANCE. NOT Believing in God; IS A BELIEF in and of itself. Atheism IS a belief. So, to bow to his wishes and not allow christian celebration, is the same as allowing christian celebration and NOT allowing muslim, jewish, atheism, etc... to celebrate theirs. sorry, but Cadet Page is an idiot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  4. pilot2b

    pilot2b Candidate Appointee

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    I have a hard time believing this is grounds for an Equal Opportunity investigation and a DOR from Westpoint. On a slightly different note, I also have a hard time believing any of the 5 academies are as fundamentally Christian as they once were. :rolleyes:
     
  5. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Not nice to call someone a certified IDIOT, but I would have to agree.

    It seems like he realized in that pretty soon he will be commissioned and have to serve in the Army and he is not up to the challenge. If his beliefs were strong, he should stay and keep on fighting.
     
  6. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    His opening paragraph saddened me more so than his rather spectacular claims. If getting a "golden ticket" for their career and wearing a ring are the points they cite as why they would want to be a WP grad, I won't be sorry to see that person not become an officer.




    (I am not very sympathetic to these types of claims, after having seen how much little events tend to get blown out of proportion at USAFA, and following quite a few of MRFF's opinion pieces and lawsuits.)
     
  7. PupNSuds

    PupNSuds Member

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    Couldn't have said it better. I'm tired of double standards. And the fact that Cadet Page waited until NOW, during his year of graduation makes it all seem like a big publicity stunt.

    The cadet was nice enough to post one of the "mandatory prayer services" he talks about in his article and I can find nothing wrong with it. He is not forced to participate as he clearly doesn't while filming the entire thing, and the prayer doesn't even have much religious influence in it. The priest simply asks for guidance as the cadets learn the values West Point teaches.
     
  8. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    The real story behind the budget is that DCA is going through a series of major cuts across the board. Existing clubs were cut, others were combined, and funding is much lower for everyone. Asking them to bankroll your club of 4-5 cadets and then being put off when they tell you no is ludicrous. Unfortuneately, the world outside West Point has no way of knowing this.
     
  9. PupNSuds

    PupNSuds Member

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    I was looking through the comments on the article and found this one by "thedissent", figured I would share it here.

    "There is no mandatory prayer at the Academy. The 3rd Regiment's Shield does not adhere to any specific religion but professes "Strong Bodies, Strong Minds, and Strong Faith." Faith can be anything, including faith in yourself, and does not have to be religious if you do not want it to be. Extra passes are not awarded for participation in religious retreats, those who participate in religious retreats are not charged a pass for doing so, as that would violate their freedom to practice their religion.
    The fact that you would post this article in what can only be an attempt to gain media recognition to avoid paying for the training and education you've received for the past 3 years is ridiculous. You are choosing to leave and you expect the American Taxpayer's to just give you $300,000? What have you done to earn this? Nothing. It only makes sense that you should pay for your education like the average American.
    No one has ever forced you to participate in any religious activity if you did not want to. Don't use this as an excuse to get out of paying your debt to society."
     
  10. FlyingFuzz

    FlyingFuzz Member

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    Oh brother, not another person with MRFF affiliation... :thumbdown:
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I shouldn't have said that he was a certified idiot. No doctor or scientist has "Certified" him. So, I guess he's an "Uncertified Idiot".

    Maybe he's actually a genius. Waits until his last year at the academy. Knowing full well over the last 3 years what academy life was like. Come up with some bogus accusations that he can PRETEND are a major moral dilemma for him. Create enough publicity that the academy voluntarily releases him from his obligation just to halt said publicity. All this time, his motives were not to serve his country in any way whatsoever; but to get a free education and not have to serve. Sort of like claiming conscientious objector.

    The whole premise of the military is based around god and country. Been that way for hundreds of years. Not in a mandatory god or belief, but the majority of Americans throughout the last 500 years have been people of faith, so it only makes sense that the majority of those in the military would have some sort of faith.

    This individual was not brought up sheltered from TV and movies. To not realize that by the very nature that military member's lives are at risk, and because of this, many of the military members tend to have faith in a higher being, is a complete lie. This is not to say that the military promotes any particular faith or belief. They don't. But individuals who are confronted with their immortality tend to gravitate towards some belief of comfort. For many, this is religious in nature. So for this individual to be offended or upset by the large number of people of faith, is pure B.S.

    But again, it goes back to "BELIEFS". He has a belief. It's obviously not in a christian god. It's not even of any type of Creationism. But he DOES have a belief. And he expects others to respect that belief and how he wants to exercise or celebrate that belief. However; he doesn't think that he should have to respect the beliefs of others. They shouldn't be allowed to exercise or celebrate their belief. Only he is allowed. He's an "Uncertified Idiot".
     
  12. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    Here's an interesting quote (again from Facebook):

    "A quick biography on the writer, having been his roommate at one time.

    Understanding Cadet Page would probably be the greatest asset to this post and the greatest asset in dissuading readers of his viability as a non-bias source of information. Cadet Page has had numerous instances throughout his experience in West Point in which he has been lacking in standards. I will point to two instances of Cadet Page failing to uphold any standard while in a chain of command position. In the summer of 2011, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant within Alpha Company during the Second Detail of the introductory training "BEAST." However, dissatisfied with the conduct of his superior officers, Cadet Page, instead of using proper channels, took a video of all that he thought was wrong. When his ploy to remove his superiors with the help of fellow 1st Sergeants was thwarted, Cadet Page was summarily removed from any command position for the summer. The seco
    nd incident spans all of the following semester when yet again, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant position within G-3. Throughout his time as the 1st Sergeant, there were multiple incidents of him missing taps (mandatory report times at night) due to alcohol intake. The final straw was after the Air Force Game in Colorado Springs where both his Commanding Officer and he missed the movement formation after consuming a large number of alcoholic drinks the night before. Thus, Cadet Page was removed from his second chain of command position, and the last one that he would hold as a cadet. Cadet Page’s interaction with the academy before he became such a staunch advocate of non-religious policy can be defined as one of misconduct and general subversion.

    This post is only meant to expose those who believe that such a man is truly fighting for their rights to be non-religious. However, after examining his career within the academy, it is easy to identify that this cause perhaps is just the latest in a string of incidents in attempting to gain either recognition or notoriety for rejecting the system. Cadet Page’s standing in the academy derides any legitimate chance that this last-ditch attempt will succeed in garnering anything besides more scorn and ridicule. While I wish him the best of luck as a citizen of the greatest nation on Earth, I recognize this was never a profession for him. "
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I would love to know if he's leaving on his own or not. There's a lot of "my choice" cadets out there, who have no choice at all, but academies can't talk about their cases.

    Edit: I see two posts ago some of that background I was thinking about.... now it starts to become clearer. A far cry from the Huffington Post bio, but likely far more accurate.
     
  15. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

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    If he was relieved of his 1SG job during Beast, that means he failed his leadership detail and would have to be an August grad - which means he lied in his article! :eek: Send him to Ninninger!
     
  16. BR2011

    BR2011 USAFA Cadet

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    I agree on all accounts that this kid sucks and is just trying to get attention before leaving. The military is Christian oriented though. If you've ever attended any formal military gathering there was a Christian prayer before and sometimes after the event. Whether that bothers you or you think that isn't right is your another story, but from a purely objective view the military leans more toward Christianity than other religions (or non-religions).
     
  17. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I haven't attended many military events in which someone prays to Jesus, but instead God. Jews and Muslims pray to God as well, so it's not a straight "Christian prayer".

    Read the kid's bio on Huffington Post.... "achieved great success"... I've tried to do the math... He was born in 1988, went straight into the Army after high school, and then went to West Point. I would guess his high school class year was wither 2007 or 2008 (+4 he would have graduated in 2011 or 2012), and his West Point class is 2013. That puts him in the Army for 1-2 years.

    It's pretty hard to achieve "great success" in a year or two.

    I have trouble believing an ounce of what he has to say, but even worse, I am confused why Huffington Post even gave him the time of day (and let's be honest, Huffington Post is now "paper of record").
     
  18. NJDAD

    NJDAD Member

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    A different adjective keeps popping in to my head, but Idiot is definitely right.
     
  19. Flyboy522

    Flyboy522 USAFA 1986

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    I agree with this sentiment. IMHO the military goes to great lengths to be neutral on faith (maybe too great at times). I can't remember the last time a supervisor ever made the horrible mistake of saying Merry Christmas during the Christmas season!
     
  20. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Any thoughts how how he got two 1SG positions if the facebook posting is true? I can see getting selected for Beast 1SG, but in the Old Corps :shake: academic year 1SGs were usually high speed low drag cadets. I would think his performance during Beast would prevented him from holding any significant leadership position during academic year. Can I say the Corps has :shake:
     

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