hornetguy
15-Year Member
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http://rt.com/news/mandela-sharp-quotes-media-860/
^ Love that he ended apartheid, but he wasn't exactly the US's closest friend.
I don't judge the man, who was South African, for whether he was sufficiently pro-American or not. His concern was the world.
http://rt.com/news/mandela-sharp-quotes-media-860/
^ Love that he ended apartheid, but he wasn't exactly the US's closest friend.
Why would he have been our friend? When he set out on his mission, the US was already supporting his opponent, that being a support based upon the 2-superpower model of world order (capitalism vs communism).http://rt.com/news/mandela-sharp-quotes-media-860/
^ Love that he ended apartheid, but he wasn't exactly the US's closest friend.
I'm not sure his concern was the world (at least initially), more about his homeland. He was a patriot to his nation first.I don't judge the man, who was South African, for whether he was sufficiently pro-American or not. His concern was the world.
We have had other friends who were closer to our least favorite opponents than we would like. It is that black and white view of the world that tends to isolate countries and leads to conflict.I'm not criticizing him for being anti-American, I'm criticizing him for being pro-Fidel Castro and pro-Gaddafi!
Our history includes supporting a list of "dictators" and "people who lead a terrorist organizations". While you might see "allegiance", I'd say his allegiance to these folks is no better than many of our frenemies who are allegedly allied with us. I judge him more by what he did once he was no longer beholden to those who financed his rise to power. I can't say he made horrible political choices once he was no longer financially beholden to those undesirable allies.Hard to say I can't really feel bad for him. Yes, he did do some good, but his legacy leading up to his imprisonment is nothing I support. Including his allegiance to communist dictators and leading a terrorist organization.
All people have warts. Even great men. Undertakers don't necessarily enhance the appearance of the warts so they will be visible to all at the funeral. Remember the good the man did. His other views didn't seem to have much impact on history, or even South Africa, anyway.
I don't hold Mandela in exalted regard. Nothing specific, just no great shakes. However, our great community activist President is going to his funeral, but not did not go Margaret Thatcher's funeral? Really?
I'm not saying what Apartheid was, was much better. I've read about what went on. Lots of both sides died. I'm not saying I don't like who Mandela was, because I support his opponent. I don't support him because he was an avid Marxist and led the terrorist arm of ANC, who did some very bad things. He was made into a martyr. Noones ever really disputed his 27 years in prison, because you can't. Amnesty International wouldn't even touch it, because they knew what had happened. It's also why I said prior to his prison term. I do agree, he was able to leave some of it behind him once he was released, and did do good things after.
Just because I'm younger, doesn't mean I'm supposed to eat what the media feeds me (look how it worked out for Ted Cruz). Everyone's entitled to an opinion of someone, and I'm not trying to change anybody else's. Based on the reading I've done, I simply don't care for "Madiba".
Hell, I knew he'd be going before it was announced, so he could bask in the afterglow. That being said, there would be a large part of his base who would be upset with him if he didn't attend. The only people he upset by not attending Thatcher's funeral was his opposition. So... I'm cutting him a break... which I don't do often and only reluctantly.
I don't hold Mandela in exalted regard. Nothing specific, just no great shakes. However, our great community activist President is going to his funeral, but not did not go Margaret Thatcher's funeral? Really?
I think let's forget about the old enemies and starting gearing up for the newest foe, the Chinese, or until some one else comes along.
And while we are talking about Marxist, terrorists, shall we bring up another complicated historical leader who fits that profile who you might consider a friend of America... Moshe Dayan
Grew up on a kibbutz (what most of us would call a commune). Joined a paramilitary organization to defend his people and was imprisoned for those activities by the British (yes, our friends the British). Got out and fought against the Vichy French during the remainder of the war. Led the forces in the fight for Israeli independence. A great military leader, but also a peacemaker as he was heavily involved with the Camp David accords which brought peace between Israel and Egypt. A left of center politician who also agreed to be foreign minister for the right of center Likud.
I wonder in what regard do you hold F. W. deKlerk, Mandela's negotiating partner and Nobel Prize co-winner: courageous statesman, cynical pragmatist, or cowardly sellout?
Mandela may or may not have been a Communist prior to his imprisonment in the early 1960s. At least one scholar, Stephen Ellis, has asserted that he probably was despite his denials. Certainly the ANC was closely allied with the South African Communist Party in protesting apartheid though it is unlikely Mandela ever shared many of Communism's ideals.