ROTC rankings

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by SpadGuy, Nov 29, 2014.

  1. SpadGuy

    SpadGuy Member

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    I saw those stats on a Facebook post. broke down by 4 levels.


    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/index.php

    National universities
    1 Texas A&M University-College Station (TX)
    2 Clarkson University (NY)
    3 Polytechnic Inst. & State Univ. (VA)
    4 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY)
    5 Michigan Technological University (MI)
    6 South Carolina State University (SC)
    7 Worcester Polytechnic Institute (MA)
    8 MO Univ. of Science & Technology (MO)
    9 Marquette University (WI)
    10 University of Notre Dame (IN)


    Liberal arts colleges
    1 Virginia Military Institute (VA)
    2 Saint Johns University (MN)
    3 Presbyterian College (SC)
    4 Wofford College (SC)
    5 Savannah State University (GA)
    6 McDaniel College (MD)
    7 Morehouse College (GA)
    8 Clearwater Christian College (FL)
    9 Claremont McKenna College (CA)
    10 Wheaton College (IL)


    Master's
    1 Citadel: The Military College of SC (SC)
    2 Norwich University (VT)
    3 North GA College & State Univ. (GA)
    4 Embry-Riddle Aero. U.-Dayt. Beach (FL)
    5 University of the Cumberlands (KY)
    6 Mary Baldwin College (VA)
    7 University of Portland (OR)
    8 Westminster College (UT)
    9 Hampton University (VA)
    10 Jacksonville University (FL)


    BA
    1 Embry-Riddle Aero. Univ.-Prescott (AZ)
    2 Tuskegee University (AL)
    3 SUNY Maritime College (NY)
    4 Maranatha Baptist Bible College (WI)
    5 Voorhees College (SC)
    6 Cedarville University (OH)
    7 Carson-Newman College (TN)
    8 Saint Augustines College (NC)
    9 University of Arkansas-Pine Bluff (AR)
    10 Florida Southern College (FL)


    3. SUNY Maritime College (NY)
    12. Texas A&M University–Galveston (TX)
    16. California Maritime Academy (CA)19. Maine Maritime Academy (ME)
    27. Massachusetts Maritime Academy (MA)
    Great Lakes Maritime Academy
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am kind of laughing at the list. I don't think anyone ever calls VT ... Polytechnic Inst. If you said VPI in VA, most people would look at you and say they have never heard of the college.

    ~ If you said VPI on this site most would not know of it, but if you said VTech they immediately know what college you are talking about. Heck even their website is
    Www.vt.edu.

    I am a hokie Mom and my DD would probably kill me if I called it VPI.

    I don't put much weight into any lists because there is always a list that will have your college ranked if you look hard enough for it.
     
  3. cravius

    cravius Member

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    The rankings are based purely off the percentage of the student body that serves in ROTC. Its not a ranking of the quality of program.
     
  4. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Those metrics are obviously flawed, my school was not listed at #1 and clearly it's the number 1 university.
     
  5. Iowa 73

    Iowa 73 Miner

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  6. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree more with those rankings also, BUT if AROTC is like AFROTC, those results will change year to year. Just because they were the winner this year does not mean they will win every year.

    DSs AFROTC unit won twice out of the four years he was there. Thus, if you looked at only that list for two of those years they would not be the winner and it might sway you.

    I am not someone that likes lists/rankings because college and units have to be a good fit for the student/cadet. Colleges and units have personalities. I have three kids, all attended or attending colleges with strong ROTC units, but not one of them would have attended the colleges that their siblings attended because they didn't "feel it" when they did the tour.

    JMPO, but the quickest way not to commission is to not like the school and/or the unit.
     
  8. glen

    glen Member

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    Agree with all the views expressed re the meaninglessness of published rankings. Realize these are put out by institutions or organizations with an agenda. Even the Cadet Command rankings are meant to serve the agenda of the Army Cadet Command - publicity and stroking institutions which meet their missions for contracted students. The top SMC award is typically rotated among the SMCs etc. The absolute best college to attend if interested in a commission in the military is the one a student can best realize his/her plan for both academic achievement and future potential. General Colin Powell one of the most respected products of Army ROTC graduated form the City College of NY - hardly a hard core ROTC program - but it worked for him. When branch assignments, active duty and opportunities to attend elite schools are decided - they are based on first the needs of the military service at the time, and then college grades, major(s) completed, ranking at summer encampment and the opinion of the PMS, PNS or PAS. Everything else is an experience to not to be wasted - choose well as the experience will stay with you rest of your life. Regards Glen
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Most old posters like me, Jcleppe Sheriff, kinnem and -Bull- just to name a few will tell you meet with the cadre when you do the school tours. Contact them prior and set up an appointment. Not for an official interview, but just to get a feel for the program at the school because ROTC is going to be an integral part of their life just like academics.
    ~ Every year candidates have problems deciding because they love the college program, but prefer a different unit, and so it becomes do they go to their number one college for academics or their number one ROTC choice. It is a very hard decision.

    I would also suggest to go to coolegeconfidential.com and look under the college forums. There maybe posters there that are in the ROTC program at the colleges you are looking for to give you insight of daily life. They can tell you if the cadets have separate dorms. Military organization/clubs. LLAB,PT, etc.

    There are also posters here that can give insight to the units, but not every college on your list might have a poster here. Some have multiple posters for their college, but might be in a different branch. I.E. kinnem and EX.BT.USN both have DSs at U of SC., yet their children are in NROTC. Vamom has a child at VT, but they are in AFROTC.

    They can give a limited insight if doing a campus tour is not feasible.
     
  10. glen

    glen Member

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    Pima - one other thought to add to your excellent post above. The best sources of information regarding ROTC units - often are upper class students who have contracted and are in the last two years of college. I do a lot of volunteer interviews for my undergraduate college - The Citadel - and without fail if a high school student is interested, I try very hard to connect them with current cadets in person or at least by phone. Upperclass students (at The Citadel - cadets) in a particular ROTC program have a good perspective of what to expect in terms of training and outcomes of Seniors getting their branch assignments - unfiltered by staff. Most Admissions Offices have programs to connect applicants with students. If accepted, I do everything I can to convince the family of prospective cadets to invest the money for their son or daughter to spend a weekend on campus rooming with a 4th Class Cadet to understand the experience, and talk to academic and ROTC staff. Even if travel distance is an issue - a $600 airplane ticket is worth the investment when considering many colleges tuition room and board costs far exceed ROTC scholarship awards. While you can always transfer if unsatisfied with a first college choice - this in itself has consequences in terms of credits, costs, and lost time. A big decision - act accordingly. Glen
     
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  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Our DS actually did meet with some C3C and 4Cs when he did his tours. He also met with the CoCs. After one tour his number three choice on his list jumped to number one and we paid his deposit that day.

    His AFROTC unit also had a great program. Every C1C in the program is given a C3C as a mentor when they arrive. That mentor will be with them for two years. It is great because cadets can go to them privately with any questions. It is also funny because even after DS commissioned and went to pilot training he still was mentoring them as they walked through the path of applying for pilot training, medical exams (FAA FC1) and preparing to go to IFS(1st step before UPT).

    The one thing I would suggest to parents is they do not attend this meeting. Cadets show respect to parents and it will be more like a dog and pony show than just cadets talking to a future cadet. Instead, during this time go to the Student Union and have something to eat. The 2nd reason is that 5 minute walk from the unit to the union allows them to imagine life on the campus a year from now by themselves. Parents tend to pepper their child with questions as soon as they see them. The silent walk alone allows them to feel life for a few moments while they replay the time in their mind. Granted at VMI, CItadel they will stick put since they won't be in uniform, but at a traditional college with ROTC they will look like just another college kid.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Glen,

    You are correct that transferring can be a big issue later on. It can mean that while you still stay in the same year group, the unit has to get to know you again, whereas the cadet that started off with them has been working their way up the ROTC ladder.

    Many do not realize that cadets are given jobs within the unit. At least for AFROTC, the best jobs for fall semester are given out in the spring prior. That becomes the stepping stone for the spring jobs, and so on and so forth. That in turn impacts your Commanders ranking which can impact your career assignment.

    For AFROTC, there is a huge negative to transferring. It is called Summer Field Training. You must be selected to attend if you want to commission. The board will meet Feb/Mar of their sophomore year. That means the CoC will have a few short months to get to know you. Currently, the selection rate overall is 55%. If not selected the chances are HQ AFROTC will disenroll you. If you transfer after the sophomore year, than the incoming college may not accept all of the other credits, and now you need HQ to allow you to slip your graduation back.

    It becomes a catch 22. Some will be able to find the golden moment to transfer and it will all work out for the best. Others will do a lot of hand wringing and worrying for months with either a positive or negative result.

    For AROTC, they don't have the SFT issue, but they do also have a problem if on scholarship, the scholarship is tied to the school. If you want to transfer and keep the scholarship you will need approval. As you said that expense, although very big could be teeny tiny compared to losing a scholarship if they decide that there is no room at the incoming college for scholarship cadets.
     
  13. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    I agree completely with Pima and Glen.

    Rankings are fun and make the parents happy, but I really don't care about them. In fact, this is the only place I ever see the rankings mentioned, and I usually ignore them. I honestly don't even know what they use to determine these rankings, and really just don't care.

    To me, it's much more important to find a school you like because that will ultimately determine if you're happy and will help you be successful there. Additionally, the entire accessions process is based on individual accomplishments, your school doesn't get you bonus points. If you feel like you will be more successful at a smaller school, then go for it. I attend a fairly large SEC school and it works better for me, but I know I wouldn't be happy at most schools on that list, and most people at those schools probably wouldn't be happy at my school.

    In addition to that, ROTC programs have high turnover rates with cadre because they are constantly rotating in and out. What may have been a top program a few years ago could be vastly different today because there is an entire shift in the climate because of a whole new set of cadre. Not saying that cadre determine what schools are the "best", but they do have an effect on the climate of the unit. Visiting schools and ROTC units, and cadets in those units, will be extremely beneficial when deciding your best fit.

    I was a Marshall Award recipient. Could I have been as successful as a cadet at another school and still received the award? Probably, because it was based on my own individual accomplishments not those of my classmates. But if I was unhappy at another school, I can't say I would have been driven enough to work towards being successful, which definitely could have affected me receiving the award.

    Realistically, you're going to spend about 80% of your time as an average State U student, and only 20% of your time as a ROTC cadet. Putting 100% of yourself into 20% of your time just does not seem like the best bet at the table. You can deal with being somewhat unhappy with your ROTC program, you will not be happy if you dislike your school.

    Edit to add: "Your" and "you" are not directed at anyone in this thread, just blanket statements for any prospective cadets and/or parents that stumble upon this thread.
     
  14. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    /\ Excellent Post.

    Both my sons attended the same university, one that would not make any of the above lists. After watching them over the past 7 years I'm not so sure they would have been as successful as they were had they attended a different school on their lists.

    Selecting the school first has always been the advice given on this board for many of the reasons Bull mentioned in his post.

    For my sons, a smaller school worked out great, there were plenty of opportunities to get involved in college life as well as ROTC. For some the larger school experience is better. Point is as Bull said, pick the school you feel you will have the most success, academically and socially, the school that will offer the most opportunities to spread your wings and be involved.
     
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  15. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    My advice is to rely solely on these lists. Anytime you can choose a highly ranked school (let's say the number two school in the nation in percentage of students that participate in ROTC) you are ensured success...

    OK...sarcasm font off...I'm not going to say that I don't mention Clarkson's ranking every time someone asks me about the size of our Battalion, but I also always say that the fit is so much more important than any prestige a ranking will bring. As Pima said these rankings change every year (although we've been number two in the Washington Monthly poll for 4 years now), and just about every Battalion has some ranking they can talk about. Niagara still mentions their 2004 #1 ranking on their website.
     
  16. SpadGuy

    SpadGuy Member

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    I'm the OP.
    if the list was revised for quantity and quality, then

    Citadel
    Embry-Riddle Aero. Univ.-Prescott
    North GA
    Norwich
    Texas A&M University
    VMI
    VT

    California Maritime Academy
    Maine Maritime Academy
    Massachusetts Maritime Academy
    SUNY Maritime College
    Texas Maritime Academy,
    Great Lakes Maritime Academy
     
  17. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Further filtering the list of rankings into a smaller list of rankings doesn't make them more legit. What makes an SMC an automatically better program than a non-SMC? I like most of the SMC's and have a lot of friends at them, but every time I've ever done any summer training with people from SMC's they always disappointed except for one (that's just been my experience, not categorizing all SMC cadets). And that's not a slight at SMC's because I know they have great people, but they also have much larger cadet populations and bigger is not always better.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Especially when you get to the point of an OML and Commanders ranking.
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Both my sons attended the same school, both branched AD Aviation. If I were to ask them how they would rank their ROTC Program, I'm sure it would be #1.

    Point is, the best School/ROTC Program is the one where you succeed.

    Just to clarify, their School/Program is not on any of these lists.
     
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  20. NAS

    NAS Banned

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    --Biased AND Ridiculous post, Spadguy--

    And to Iowa73, if you're going to cite rankings, suggest using the most recent rankings from 2014: http://www.army.mil/article/121019/Cadet_Command_announces_2013_MacArthur_Award_winners/
    I agree with the others though, I don't recommend putting too much stock into rankings...
    Bottom Line: visit many options and pick what works for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014

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