Sequestration and NROTC Summer Cruise

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by jiller59, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. jiller59

    jiller59 Member

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  2. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    "cancel Midshipmen summer training programs" :eek:
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    That wording would seem to apply to USNA and NROTC. Or do I read too much into it? Ouch! :eek:
    A lot of what's there certainly matches what I've been reading in the papers.

    Edit: I take solace from the statement on page 1 that actions mentioned in the brief "are representative in nature". Also from the wording at the bottom, "subject to change in execution". Although I would feel bad for my DS, if they gotta cut they gotta cut.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  4. jiller59

    jiller59 Member

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    I agree that it would apply to both NROTC and USNA - I only mentioned NROTC since this is the ROTC forum. :wink:

    Also at the top of the page it says "Potential" - since pretty much everything is on the table.

    I would also feel bad for DS, but am especially thinking about the many, many families and communites this could severely impact.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It looks like next week the cuts will be more firmed up. Yesterday SoD Panetta sent an email to 800K government contractors saying it is about all over, the hit is coming.

    It appears that USMA has already sent out an email today to their cadets that there will be an impact for them too.

    I lived in NC for yrs, and in a way this reminds me of a hurricane 5 coming. You can feel it in the air, everybody is preparing to be hit, pulling in furniture, getting the generator ready, etc. You can feel it coming, you wish it wouldn't, but all you can do is wait for it to start because the sooner it starts, the sooner you can begin the clean up that it left behind and move on with your life.

    Best of luck to everyone that we all can survive this storm without much damage.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    NROTC Freshman Orientation Changes

    The "traditional" 5 day NROTC Freshman Orientation that occurred prior to the start of school will be changing. In fact, it's essentially cancelled and they will now be following (as I understand it) an AFROTC type model where then spend a couple days just doing paperwork and some "academics". This is disappointing to my DS. The initial weeding out will be gone and he's a bit worried about the quality of the Battalion as a result. I expect the weeding out process will occur soon enough.

    I was also told they relented on the use of Battalion resources to attend Drill Meets this spring. So it looks like DS's attendance in Memphis is back on (hide the BBQ). The only question now is will Memphis restore the Endurance Team competition. DS is hoping so.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am sure they will weed out soon enough. I would not think they would lower the standards, just up the demands on the newbies those 1st few weeks.

    I wonder how this will impact SMCs since they are a hybrid due to the fact they have the Corps. Does anyone know how their funding works? Is it the school that picks up the cost, or does each branch ante up and fund it?

    As far as AFROTC standards, I never really saw the need for a training period prior to the start. I would get it for NROTC MO, but let's be honest in the Navy you won't be rucking it, it is akin to AF regarding lifestyle. I am sure they know the stats of how many contracted mids drop after this orientation, and I am betting it is so few that it does not have a cost benefit to spend the money.

    Plus, we must remember the issue at hand regarding this yr., is that they must cut a yrs budget in 1/2 the time, thus they had less options regarding where to pull the money. A lot has already spent. I.E. ROTC scholarships, which start paying out before the end of FY13 budget. Next yr they may have more freedom, thus instead of 2 weeks, it might mean just 1 week, but 1 week is better than 0 week.

    Where will they get the money next yr? Probably fewer scholarships for HSSP IMPO.

    For me the real concern is the support level that will diminish until Oct 1. Many of these dets have civilians working for them, and the HQ's due too. The furloughs are going to impact the paperwork issues. For example: the cadre admin civilian takes it Thursday, the NROTC counterpart takes it Friday. That means 2 of the 5 days will be shut down for all purposes regarding getting the issue solved.

    It could also mean an impact on those awaiting waivers for a DoDMERB issue. No waiver, but scholarship in hand means no contracting. No contracting equals no tuition paid, no book allowance and no stipend until contracted. It will still happen, but it is a stressor on a family until it is rectified. Plus, many times the delay impacts their stipend, because now it is back pay, and if that gets lost in the blackhole, than it is go to your admin...see above paragraph,
     
  8. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    I wonder if it will follow the pattern

    The Sequestration will probably follow the political pattern of the last few years.
    1) Intense saber rattling by both political parties
    2)Deadline missed
    3)3-10 days later a deal reached
    4)Deal will be extension of status quo
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    We shall see. I don't think status quo ante is an option this time but then I'm not a spineless politician so its difficult to see things through their eyes.
     
  10. Hurricane12

    Hurricane12 USNA 2012

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    What? Getting rid of orientation seems stupid as hell. I know some dudes/dudettes here at TBS who switched from Navy to Marine Option while in NROTC (as well as a number of normal Marine Option grads).
    Across the board, they all agree that the Navy side doesn't do nearly enough training or evaluation of MIDN. There's no OCS or field training equivalent on the Navy side. How is removing the one "hard" weeding out process going to result in a better product hitting the fleet?
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Preaching to the choir Hurricane. I'm hoping this is part of the sabre-rattling and that they back off that decision. I think orientation served the very important function of forcing each MIDN to question if they really wanted to be there.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am naive in this arena, but let me ask..no flame throwing, how is a 1 week training at 18 impact the success 4 yrs later?

    Additionally, they are not at a military installation, but a college correct? Is that not an assumption they all have the same rigor level at every college in the nation? A PFA is a PFA, but how hard they ride them for a week varies. I would assume, VT/TAMU/VMI/Citadel ride mids harder than UMDCP(GTown host?). Than again, maybe not...maybe UMDCP/GTown feels they have something to prove against SMCs.

    As I stated, I get MO, that is more like AROTC, but Navy is more like AFROTC...rucking it is not part of life for the majority of them.

    I have faith in the military...guess as a spouse of 20 yrs+, and now a Mom of an O1 I have to have it. Maybe the Navy is going to convert their program to be more like AFROTC for NROTC.

    They may decide that for 17 grads, they will do the same at the sophomore yr marker. If I am correct, one big difference between the two, ALL NROTC mids must be scholarship when they enter their jr yr. AFROTC is they must be contracted...to contract you must attend summer field training. I would assume if I am correct, that is a huge savings for AF. My guesstimate is @25% of all AFROTC grads commission on scholarship. 100% were contracted with stipend, but 75% did not get tuition paid by AFROTCHQ. 100% like NROTC go AD.

    Again, I might have it wrong, maybe NROTC is like AFROTC and contracts as a jr. so please no flaming. Please inform me and other posters how the system works. Do you have to have a scholarship by the end of your soph yr.?

    If that is the case, would it be wrong to assume that NROTC would have to change their entire program due to fiscal issues they will face in the yrs to come?

    Wasn't it a topic on AROTC threads that they changed their scholarships this yr to award more to 3 yrs instead of 4 yrs? Would it be wrong to assume the reason why is their own "weeding out" process from an ROI perspective.

    ROI= Return On Investment. Scholarships are an investment in their eyes.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I'll tackle some of the easier one's first. NROTC does not award 3 year High School Scholarships, only 4 year. Sideload scholarships can be won each semester starting Spring semester of Freshman year through Spring semester of sophomore year, and then advanced standing rising junior year. Transfers, say from a community college, can win a 2 year scholarship.

    There is some rucking during NROTC. I think it's optional for the Navy options but nevertheless most show up... but they aren't rucking very far either. A few miles maybe. Marine options will ruck much more, especially the semester prior to OCS. Some MIDN will ruck on their own.

    Freshman Orientation is a bit like a mini-boot camp. Probably overstating it but they get the job done. DS's class barracked in the ROTC building on campus. There was lots of PT. Lots of academics. There was fire watch. They got 4 hours sleep a night, max. They were in the same cammies all week. Ate MRE's all week. Were not allowed to speak to each other. Marine DI's "tore up the barracks" and made them sort it out. There were Barrack inspections. Lots of basic knowledge memorization sort of like first days at an academy. 2 minutes for cold showers and shaving. They went to Fort Jackson for a day for field exercises and Leadership Reaction Course exercises. Marine DIs are in charge the whole time. It's very demanding and designed to force each freshman question if they really want to be there. Honestly. As the MIDN in the course said in a video they made that week it was a wake-up call and the Seargents were very very intense with them. Their last day of orientation was a fun thing with sailing training at a nearby lake, swimming, picnic. It was the first time the MIDN got to speak to each other and to a man (and woman) each one said they considered leaving. At least 10 did leave. Some were on scholarship. And of course, when you go through all that as a group you bond. DS could barely speak at the end of it and you could see a change in all of them. The way they held themselves, their focus, their attitude. I was truly amazed by the change in 5 days. I think the orientation brought a lot of value to the program and to the MIDN.

    As Hurricane said, for the Navy Options it's actually the toughest week they'll face. I don't think the summer trainings are too awfully demanding. Certainly their first cruise isn't. And Navy Options don't attend OCS. SWO go straight to the Fleet upon graduation. Subs and aviation go straight to their MOS training. Marine Options, of course, have OCS and TBS.

    I think losing Freshman Orientation will be a big loss. And yes, I think you may be right that they will need to rethink their NROTC training as a result of the sequester. Navy will at least. I think the Marines are OK since they still have OCS and TBS in the pathway.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That is the difference I guess regarding the summer training.

    Is it easier? I don't know!

    Their cell phones and any connection to the outside world is gone for the month. Collected the day they arrive for SFT. Their ranking out of AFROTC SFT matters from an OML perspective next yr as a C300/400.

    However, the fact still remains, they all have at least 4 yrs prior to commissioning when they enter as a freshman. Tons of time for the Navy to fix it from a training perspective.

    This hard cut is because in part due to the fact that the DoD has to cut a large chunk of their budget at a very fast rate; 6 months. This is for FY13. Not FY14!

    To assume that this will happen again next yr. is wrong. FY13 is 13, it may impact 14, but it doesn't mean 13 will be repeated in 14.
     

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