Should incoming class of 2016 be worried about KP's future ?

[kp2001]

Why would Tomcat get censored if they keep asking serious questions that involve the safety of her son or daughter?

Tomcat hasn't been as far as I know. Curious as to what would make you think they had? Feel free to PM me so we don't clog this thread with the discussion.

 

[kdbax]

As much as I'm dismayed by this event and the lack of CO detectors, KP isn't the only school with these issues. One of my administrative assistants told me that her daughter's dorm (small liberal arts college) has smoke detectors - but they don't work. No batteries.

 

[bugsy]

Just got yelled at in a text from DS cause I worry too much, more on that later.

Tomcats not out of line, I just worried about different things when i was at his stage of the process. KP is an institution in need of more infrastrucure money, didnt worry about that. I had 2 worries when my DS was concidering KP.

1. Would a systems engineering degree from KP be so specialized in the marine industry as to fail to provide a foundation in engineering that could be appllied to another industry, like aerospace etc.

2. Would DS be able to complete a full up systems engineering program in 3 yrs with the 4th spent at sea?

I had 2 professional engineers in aerospace look at the KP curriculum. They where very impressed with the preperation provided. Impressed that seniors are prepped to sit for the 1st of 2 exams for the PE licencing exam. Impressed that curriculum included an equal weight in academic and hands on instruction in turbine, diesel, and steam propulsion systems and emphasis in both mechanical and electrical engineering. That aleviated that worry

I still worry whether DS can hack the stress of the program. So far he has a 3.5 GPA but he is stressed no dought. If you ask the mids whether they worry about the future of the institution. Theyll tell you, no time. I have 3 tests this week.

So what do i worry about?

1. Will DS be able to come home in next 18 months? Athletic competition over spring break, indoc prep over summer, and sea duty over next fall and xmas.

2. Will DS buckle under the stress?

3. Will DS choose to serve in the maritime industry or go active duty aviation as he first desired.

Why did DS yell at me? Because i mailed him a heating pad after reading all these posts. DS lives in the effected dorm and was evaluated for CO poisoning. He responded. "We are fine, im not cold, now i have to find a place to store this heating pad. You parents worry too much."

 

[kpmom2013]

Bugsy--you echoed my sentiments and you worry about exactly the same things I am worrying about. Oh yeah--add one more to the list and that's safety at sea. Little things like being stuck in the Suez Canal at the start of the Arab Spring, pirates in the waters off Somalia, and now when my DS is in the Gulf of Alaska with 4.5 meter waves, 50+ knot winds, 2 feet of snow on deck and still coming down, and continuous 30 degree rolls. Now that's something to worry about. And I'm old enough to remember the wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald which went down with a cadet on board...

 

[Lynpar]

Kpmom2013,
GULP!


The day after DS left for KP myself and the rest of the family were in the car together and that song came on the radio. No one said a word. Finally I broke the silence with....."awkward". Then they all laughed. Me too, sorta

 

[bugsy]

Thanks KPMom. Didnt know that about the Edmond Fitzgerald. Now I have a fourth thing to worry about.

Clearly KP is a different type of SA with different risks. With risk comes reward, but it isnt easy.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Get the money that the DOD gets and you would see a vastly different place. If I remember correctly in recent years West Point built a new athletic facility that cost more than the entire operating budget of KP.

Not quite a fair analogy since the DOD does not pay for the athletic facilities. Of course USMMA and USCGA are signficantly smaller than the 'big three' but they should at least be able to afford similar facilities to the average large high school in the US. Perhaps it's time for the DOT to make their academies a priority and shore them up or simply shut them down.

No, not that they are great, but that if you survive four years at USMMA, it is more of an accomplishment than at the other service academies. He has friends at USNA and USMA and he "brags" that at KP the food is worse, the facilities are worse, the teachers are worse, etc. However, he still has more military and non-military options than they do on graduation.

I disagree. I don't have a dog in this fight but.... why not just pitch tents for the USMMA Mids to sleep in. That would be tough surely. No one should be forced to live in deplorable living conditions. No one should be 'bragging' that their teachers are 'worse'. That totally devalues their diploma.

There is no reason for USMMA to be in the position they are in. There are alternatives - some very fine schools offer essentially the same programs and all the fine options. Frankly I don't know why more are not carefully considering the Maritime Academies - SUNY, Mass, Maine and others offer excellent educations and programs and usually students can get in-state tuitions due to state to state agreements.

 

[Luigi59]

And I'm old enough to remember the wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald which went down with a cadet on board...

Thanks KPMom. Didnt know that about the Edmond Fitzgerald. Now I have a fourth thing to worry about.

Clearly KP is a different type of SA with different risks. With risk comes reward, but it isnt easy.

To clarify: Yes, the Edmund Fitzgerald had a cadet on board when she sank.

Not a USMMA/KP cadet, though. Cadet David Weiss, from the Great Lakes Maritime Academy.

And he wasn't the youngest to die - the EF had 6 (out of 29) who were younger than 23, the youngest 2 were only 20.

 

[Luigi59]

Not quite a fair analogy since the DOD does not pay for the athletic facilities. Of course USMMA and USCGA are signficantly smaller than the 'big three' but they should at least be able to afford similar facilities to the average large high school in the US. Perhaps it's time for the DOT to make their academies a priority and shore them up or simply shut them down.

The DOT has more than one academy?

You're about 10 years behind the times, JAM. USCGA is not part of the DOT.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

The DOT has more than one academy?

You're about 10 years behind the times, JAM. USCGA is not part of the DOT.

HeHe. True that. My bad.
I haven't seen the facilities at USMMA but the CGA facilities are pretty nice. Anyway - just trying to figure out why Kp2001 is putting the onus on the DOD.

 

[sprog]

Frankly I don't know why more are not carefully considering the Maritime Academies - SUNY, Mass, Maine and others offer excellent educations and programs and usually students can get in-state tuitions due to state to state agreements.

These schools are not that popular of a discussion topic on SAF, but there is plenty of interest with those kids who are really looking for a career in the maritime industry. I'm sure there is some overlap with some USMMA applicants.

gcaptain has more discussion on the State maritime schools than on here.

I too have no dog in the hunt, but I wish there were more posts about places like Maine, SUNY, etc. on SAF (not in the USMMA forum, of course).

 

[kp2001]

Anyway - just trying to figure out why Kp2001 is putting the onus on the DOD.

Ah, sorry, wasn't putting the onus on DOD, I was trying to point out that comparing the facilities at USMMA to USAFA/USNA/USMA is comparing apples to oranges due to budget sizes of the parent organizations.

 

[Lynpar]

Sprog we should warn them if they go lurking at g-captain regarding KP they may want to bring disinfectant to spay off their hands after they have finished. That should take about 5 minutes toxic

 

[jasperdog]

Wow - this thread is now pretty all over the place but..

Wow - this thread is pretty all over the place but I'll try and put my thoughts down as a graduate and as a parent of a current first classman.

Should you worry about the future of KP, absolutely, of course no more than you'd worry about the future of anyplace else you are sending your child for college. Is there a danger of KP getting closed in the next four years? My feeling is that is highly unlikely and I could also see, and I might add hope, that the words of Secretary LaHood survive his departure from DOT at the end of President Obama's current term and both DOT and MARAD do what it takes to make USMMA the best Maritime Academy in the world and a true gem amongst all of it's Federal Service Academy peers. There is really no reason that cannot happen in relatively short order.

Of course there are lots of chatter both well founded and as has been noted A LOT needs to be done to both the capital facilities as well as to the curricula and in some cases the staff and faculty in the way of upgrading USMMA to where it can and in my opinion should be. I like many others look not to USAFA, USMA, or USNA as a model or measure but I do think the USCGA is a fair comparison and model because of size and the diversity of the Coast Guard's mission, etc. That said USMMA needs to be still thought of differently, recent efforts by VADM Stewart to use USCGA as a model, were again in my opinion tried to do so too closely and didn't recognize and take into account the basic differences in Mission and goals in that USCGA is far closer to a Military Academy while USMMA needs to remain first and foremost a Maritime Academy.

Lastly, someone noted that the athletic facilities at the other Federal SAs aren't fully paid for by the Federal Government and that is correct. Unfortunately, all four of those Federal Academies have legal access to flexibility that USMMA has yet to be granted as regards NAFIs and the crux of that item and the issues and delays in giving monies for similar purposes to USMMA could be the subject of an entirely new thread so I won't comment on it here.

As to worrying about your chile at USMMA, until last Sunday night I would have said don't worry they are in good hands just like I was. For those that read my post on the CO leak, you'll know why I won't say that here. As to worrying about the quality of education and what and where your child can and will go if they graduate from USMMA, I can and do still say no worries there. Worry about the stress, etc that others indicate above - absolutely all real valid concerns and all that is in some way shape or form there for a reason and results in a great, mature leader ready to make their positive impact on the world when they graduate both because of and at times in spite of all the other things that you as a loving parent will and should worry about.

 

[Mongo]

If I remember correctly in recent years West Point built a new athletic facility that cost more than the entire operating budget of KP.

A red herring. Athletic facilities at the DOD SAs are funded exclusively by donations, mostly by alumni. Donations exceed demand. Most donors want to make "brick and mortar" donations and the demand is just not there anymore. This particular project was funded entirely by the largest single donation in the history of the federal Service Academies—a $15 million donation to West Point's Association of Graduates from Bill (WP-'67) and Carol Foley.

Maybe MMA graduates should look inward and ask themselves why they do not support their own academy accordingly.

 

[Luigi59]

A red herring. Athletic facilities at the DOD SAs are funded exclusively by donations, mostly by alumni. Association of Graduates[/b] from Bill (WP-'67) and Carol Foley.

Then substitute "$103 million dollars for new prep school" instead and your red herring disappears.

 

[Mongo]

Then substitute "$103 million dollars for new prep school" instead and your red herring disappears.

Perhaps, but probably another red herring. USMAPS relocation was due solely to the BRAC Commission's decision to close FT Monmouth. I don't think BRAC falls under the direct guidance of DOD.

 

[Kram1]

Maybe MMA graduates should look inward and ask themselves why they do not support their own academy accordingly.

Excellent...could not have said it any better. I am a much bigger donor to KP than many many of its grads, and I didn't even attend KP...had a son graduate in 2001...donated then, continue to donate today. It disturbs me greatly when I see the class reports in the Kings Pointer regarding donations by class. Amazingly low. In addition, far too few parents donate to Kings Point. WAY too few. It is way past time the Kings Point grads and families stepped up to help Kings Point move forward. It is a fantastic academy, it graduates this nation's future leaders and, in my opinion, has earned every right to be supported at a much higher level by it's very own!

Think about it....think about what you are doing to be part of the solution...it's not "how much", it's IF!

 

[Luigi59]

It disturbs me greatly when I see the class reports in the Kings Pointer regarding donations by class. Amazingly low. In addition, far too few parents donate to Kings Point. WAY too few.

Agree 100% but things like building maintenance or basic safety items like CO detectors should not have to funded by the parents. or the alumni. Those should be the responsibility of the USG without question.

 

[Kram1]

Agree 100% but things like building maintenance or basic safety items like CO detectors should not have to funded by the parents. or the alumni. Those should be the responsibility of the USG without question.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...but, if alums and other friends, in fact, substantially increased donations it would greatly reduce the need for other areas at KP to "suffer" while the Academy spends funds for such maintenance that could go elsewhere to benefit the Midshipmen and the Academy items I would suspect.

No matter how it works at a federal academy, the alumni at Kings Point do a very poor job overall of supporting the great institution that is Kings Point. They should all collectively look in the mirror and be a tad ashamed of what they see in this regard.