SMCs At A Glance

Tac-p21

Tac-p21

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2022
Messages
66
List for students interested in America’s senior military colleges. All incredible schools with unique traditions, serving a special role in our country’s educational system. Listed in order by size.

Texas A&M
Founded October 4, 1876
Total Students: 72,982
Cadets: 2,516 (largest cadet corps outside of SAs)
Corps Commissioning rate: 60%
Endowment fund: $19.2 Billion (all campuses)
Website:
www.tamu.edu
corps.tamu.edu

Virginia Tech
Founded October 1, 1872
Total students: 36,383
Cadets: 1,285
Corps Commissioning rate: 60%
Endowment fund: $1.7 billion
Website:
www.vt.edu
www.vtcc.vt.edu

The Citadel
Established 1842
Total students: 3,721
Cadets: 2,238
Corps Commissioning rate: 30%
Endowment fund: $423.6 million
Website:
www.citadel.edu
www.citadel.edu/corps/

Norwich University
Founded August 6, 1819
Total students: 1,955
Cadets: 1,025
Corps Commissioning rate: 55%
Endowment fund: $214.3 million
Website:
www.Norwich.edu
home.norwich.edu/on/corps-cadets

Virginia Military Institute
Founded November 11, 1839
Total Students: 1,512
Commissioning rate: 60%
Endowment fund: $703.1 million
Website:
www.vmi.edu

University of North Georgia
Founded January 7, 1873
Total students: 7,721
Cadets: 773
Corps Commissioning rate: 50%
Endowment fund: $55.6 million
Website:
www.ung.edu
www.ung.edu/military-college-admissions/index.php
 
Last edited:
Great post! We really didn’t know much about the SMCs before our son started looking into colleges. Great snapshot here and a good way to start looking into them for the up and coming kids. I hope all of the SMCs continue to attract great kids to continue their traditions.
 
Not sure where you got those commissioning rates, but A&M's is not that high. My son is commissioning from A&M next week, but their rate is somewhere between 40-45%.
 
franknd said:
Not sure where you got those commissioning rates, but A&M's is not that high. My son is commissioning from A&M next week, but their rate is somewhere between 40-45%.
Click to expand...
Great question and thanks! Got rates from school websites and calling staff.(Not an easy or fast process.) 60% came from corps staff and TAMU State of the Corps 2022-2023 which stated “TAMU commissioned 87 in Dec and 149 in May” for a total of 237 out of 400 graduates: 60%. The numbers do not include members commissioned in the summer for any SMCs.
All schools have graduation and commissioning in the next several weeks so we can definitely update with 2024 numbers as we get them… and BIG congrats to your family and DS for commissioning!
 
Last edited:
Tac-p21 said:
Great question and thanks! Got rates from school websites and calling staff.(Not an easy or fast process.) 60% came from corps staff and TAMU State of the Corps 2022-2023 which stated “TAMU commissioned 87 in Dec and 149 in May” for a total of 237 out of 400 graduates: 60%. The numbers do not include members commissioned in the summer for any SMCs.
All schools have graduation and commissioning in the next several weeks so we can definitely update with 2024 numbers as we get them… and BIG congrats to your family and DS for commissioning!
Click to expand...
Well, if Corps staff told you that, then I'd take it as reliable; but I have never seen anything close to that percentage reported in my son's four years. What might be driving the percentage higher is the denominator of only 400 graduates. That seems low for a COC of over 2500. That would mean there is a significant amount of attrition. All that said, I've been thrilled with my son's experience at A&M; absolutely first rate. And, I'll also say that it is possible to find and request outfits that have higher commissioning rates than others. That's one of the things my son did, and I'd say that was a very wise decision.
 
I can't speak to the attrition rate at SMC, other than to say it is to be expected. One thing I do know is that each SMC likely welcomes a freshman class each year that is significantly larger than the upper classes. How "significant" is obviously going to vary from school to school and year to year. But the fact is, there will be certain washout percentage each year, and there will be students who transfer after freshman to other institutions, for a variety of reasons.
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
I can't speak to the attrition rate at SMC, other than to say it is to be expected. One thing I do know is that each SMC likely welcomes a freshman class each year that is significantly larger than the upper classes. How "significant" is obviously going to vary from school to school and year to year. But the fact is, there will be certain washout percentage each year, and there will be students who transfer after freshman to other institutions, for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...
I don't know if anyone here can speak to this, but one concern I have about some of these schools is the acceptance rate. I'll single out The Citadel only because it is the one I most recently looked it. Their most recent acceptance rate is 98% from their common data set (2879 applied, 2824 admitted). They still are able to maintain good rankings from places like US News and World Report, but looking at that number, especially in comparison to the SA rates, it makes me wonder. I currently work at a small college that considers itself somewhat of an "access institution", and even for us, our acceptance rate is only in the 80s, and I see what kind of students we get.
 
Just chiming in because I’ve talked to others about this. The SMCs are tough schools. Easy to get into, hard to stay in and complete. They give kids a chance, but many drop and end up enlisting or switching to the civilian side. It’s supposed to be a challenge and something that’s earned. I was surprised when touring Norwich there was an alum in the tour too and they said back in his day they lost 40% from the corps and that was normal…a lot try, few succeed…
 
gck105 said:
I don't know if anyone here can speak to this, but one concern I have about some of these schools is the acceptance rate. I'll single out The Citadel only because it is the one I most recently looked it. Their most recent acceptance rate is 98% from their common data set (2879 applied, 2824 admitted). They still are able to maintain good rankings from places like US News and World Report, but looking at that number, especially in comparison to the SA rates, it makes me wonder. I currently work at a small college that considers itself somewhat of an "access institution", and even for us, our acceptance rate is only in the 80s, and I see what kind of students we get.
Click to expand...
I'll attempt to answer here, though I will start by saying my "inside knowledge" is extremely limited. My DS will be a knob at The Citadel this fall. We have visited campus twice and spoken with various faculty, ROTC cadre and support staff. We have researched the school extensively and are aware of the high rankings (#1 public university in the South 13 years running, etc.) Even given my limited exposure -- I feel as though we will be able speak with a lot more authority as he actually goes through the program. That said, here are a few thoughts based on my impressions so far:

1. The Citadel is a "fallback option" for MANY SA applicants. So, although the acceptance rate is very high, that doesn't mean there are not some very accomplished students among them. Yes, I am sure there are some low-achieving students among the applicant pool. But also don't forget that a portion of each year's incoming class consists of high-caliber students who probably just missed a SA appointment by a hair's breadth. There are also a bunch of kids like my DS, who never applied to a SA but went the ROTC route. Again, these are high-achieving students who are specifically seeking the military aspect of The Citadel as a complement to their ROTC training and preparation for a military career.

2. Society at large has lost sight of the value of structure and discipline. Based on what I see at The Citadel, in terms of educational and personal outcomes, you don't need a collection of stellar people to achieve stellar results. You need a bunch of capable (average intelligence is OK) people willing to commit to a common purpose of achieving stellar results. In other words, I'd bet on Citadel cadets willing to subject themselves to the physical, academic and personal discipline rigor required to be there over a group of students at a "normal" college that may be more selective in its admissions. Having recently been to many college campuses with my DS, I can speak with certainty in telling you pajamas as the wardrobe of choice for about half of America's college students. It is difficult to provide a statistical correlation between pajamans and academic performance, but let's just say there is a stark difference between what you see at The Citadel and the average college campus, and I think that difference translates into positive results for the Cadets.

3. As a direct piggyback on #2, the higher than average retention rate, graduation rate, employment rate and annual earnings Citadel students and graduates enjoy relative to its peers is empirical evidence that what they are doing is working. This is also the reason the school has been the #1 public university in the South for so long and also one of the top value schools in the region.

4. I think the last thing I'd say regarding acceptance rate involved "yield." Every college operates its admissions department off a known yield rate where they have to accept X students to enroll one. Given the numbers you cited, if the Citadel is admitting roughly 2,800 students per year to yield a freshman class of roughly 700, that's a 25 percent yield rate. In other words, only 1 in 4 students who are admitted to The Citadel ultimately decide to enroll. I bet the yield rate is significantly higher at Ivy League schools, highly selective private colleges (Notre Dame, Villanova, etc.) and the most popular big public universities (USC, Penn State, etc.) A lot of this, I would believe, is simply the fact that kids know going to The Citadel will be HARD. I would imagine a lot of kids apply because they think it would be cool to be a Cadet, but when it comes time to make a choice, they choose other options for various reasons. That's OK, but I do believe it's a unique difference that Senior Military College face in the admissions process that normal colleges simply do not have to deal with. And, for that reason, I doubt The Citadel could afford to be highly selective in its admissions policies and still achieve its targeted student numbers.

Hope that was at least interesting to read. If not, my apologies for wasting your time. :p
 
DoD wouldn't have resident N/ROTC programs at the SMCs if they didn't consistently produce quality graduates.

I've served with officers from every commissioning source imaginable and the SMC N/ROTC programs are all top notch. SMCs have all of the same quirks that each of the SAs have which makes them unique in their own way.
 
Thanks for the
pa-outdoorsman said:
I'll attempt to answer here, though I will start by saying my "inside knowledge" is extremely limited. My DS will be a knob at The Citadel this fall. We have visited campus twice and spoken with various faculty, ROTC cadre and support staff. We have researched the school extensively and are aware of the high rankings (#1 public university in the South 13 years running, etc.) Even given my limited exposure -- I feel as though we will be able speak with a lot more authority as he actually goes through the program. That said, here are a few thoughts based on my impressions so far:

1. The Citadel is a "fallback option" for MANY SA applicants. So, although the acceptance rate is very high, that doesn't mean there are not some very accomplished students among them. Yes, I am sure there are some low-achieving students among the applicant pool. But also don't forget that a portion of each year's incoming class consists of high-caliber students who probably just missed a SA appointment by a hair's breadth. There are also a bunch of kids like my DS, who never applied to a SA but went the ROTC route. Again, these are high-achieving students who are specifically seeking the military aspect of The Citadel as a complement to their ROTC training and preparation for a military career.

2. Society at large has lost sight of the value of structure and discipline. Based on what I see at The Citadel, in terms of educational and personal outcomes, you don't need a collection of stellar people to achieve stellar results. You need a bunch of capable (average intelligence is OK) people willing to commit to a common purpose of achieving stellar results. In other words, I'd bet on Citadel cadets willing to subject themselves to the physical, academic and personal discipline rigor required to be there over a group of students at a "normal" college that may be more selective in its admissions. Having recently been to many college campuses with my DS, I can speak with certainty in telling you pajamas as the wardrobe of choice for about half of America's college students. It is difficult to provide a statistical correlation between pajamans and academic performance, but let's just say there is a stark difference between what you see at The Citadel and the average college campus, and I think that difference translates into positive results for the Cadets.

3. As a direct piggyback on #2, the higher than average retention rate, graduation rate, employment rate and annual earnings Citadel students and graduates enjoy relative to its peers is empirical evidence that what they are doing is working. This is also the reason the school has been the #1 public university in the South for so long and also one of the top value schools in the region.

4. I think the last thing I'd say regarding acceptance rate involved "yield." Every college operates its admissions department off a known yield rate where they have to accept X students to enroll one. Given the numbers you cited, if the Citadel is admitting roughly 2,800 students per year to yield a freshman class of roughly 700, that's a 25 percent yield rate. In other words, only 1 in 4 students who are admitted to The Citadel ultimately decide to enroll. I bet the yield rate is significantly higher at Ivy League schools, highly selective private colleges (Notre Dame, Villanova, etc.) and the most popular big public universities (USC, Penn State, etc.) A lot of this, I would believe, is simply the fact that kids know going to The Citadel will be HARD. I would imagine a lot of kids apply because they think it would be cool to be a Cadet, but when it comes time to make a choice, they choose other options for various reasons. That's OK, but I do believe it's a unique difference that Senior Military College face in the admissions process that normal colleges simply do not have to deal with. And, for that reason, I doubt The Citadel could afford to be highly selective in its admissions policies and still achieve its targeted student numbers.

Hope that was at least interesting to read. If not, my apologies for wasting your time. :p
Click to expand...
I appreciate the reply. All your points are valid and make sense to me.
 
gck105 said:
I don't know if anyone here can speak to this, but one concern I have about some of these schools is the acceptance rate. I'll single out The Citadel only because it is the one I most recently looked it. Their most recent acceptance rate is 98% from their common data set (2879 applied, 2824 admitted). They still are able to maintain good rankings from places like US News and World Report, but looking at that number, especially in comparison to the SA rates, it makes me wonder. I currently work at a small college that considers itself somewhat of an "access institution", and even for us, our acceptance rate is only in the 80s, and I see what kind of students we get.
Click to expand...
gck105 said:
I don't know if anyone here can speak to this, but one concern I have about some of these schools is the acceptance rate. I'll single out The Citadel only because it is the one I most recently looked it. Their most recent acceptance rate is 98% from their common data set (2879 applied, 2824 admitted). They still are able to maintain good rankings from places like US News and World Report, but looking at that number, especially in comparison to the SA rates, it makes me wonder. I currently work at a small college that considers itself somewhat of an "access institution", and even for us, our acceptance rate is only in the 80s, and I see what kind of students we get.
Click to expand...
I can comment on the rate you mentioned above for The Citadel. The acceptance rates are a factor of yield, which for the smaller military colleges (vs the large universities like TAMU or Va Tech), is typically going to be much lower. A lot of high school students think they want to attend one of these smaller 24/7 military schools as a cadet, begin the application process, but after learning the commitment it takes, and what it actually involves for four years, either don't complete the application process, don’t deposit or fail to matriculate. And a considerable number are also applying to a service academy (this is especially true for non-residents which typically make up 50% of entering classes). For example, for the fall entering class in 2023, Citadel Admissions received 5,217 applications. The last several years the upper classes lost a larger number than in prior years, due to COVID etc., so the freshmen enrollment goal was set as high for these years. Less than 3,000 actually completed the full admissions process for fall 2023. Most of these were accepted. I’ve been a volunteer for Admissions for two decades. Looking at the entering class in 2023, their credentials - the middle 50% band of students accepted - fell within the typical profile of applicants over the last two decades, SAT 1130, high school GPA 3.77. 25% were a little higher and 25% a little lower.

Admissions has a pretty good idea of the type of student who will do well in this environment. And the results bear this out. Over the last decade 86% retention rate first year cadets, Ave first year GPA 3.0, and 70% graduation rate in 4 years (twice the national average for four year public colleges and universities). More than 80% of all seniors have a job, military commission or accepted to law, medical or grad school before they graduate. Most all graduates have a job within 6 months of graduation. I would assume the other military college have similar statistics - which in the end is what really counts. Hope this helps.
 
As we are in the graduation and commissioning window, might be a good time to update commissioning numbers for 2024.
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
What strikes me most here is that VMI has quite an impressive endowment relative to its size.
Click to expand...
TAMU has 19 billion. As far a ROTC scholarships they have the Patriot Scholarship which makes a 3 or 4 year scholarship a full ride. Every kid in Texas is trying to get into that school. They aren't very generous with freshman shcolarships. There are many valedictorians and salutatorians paying full price to attend TAMU.

Norwich has the ID White Scholarship-room and board which also makes a full ride for 2-3-4 year scholarships. I think Norwich is picking up the first year tution and room/board for 3 year scholarships making them 4 year full rides.

I believe the Citadel has a few room/board scholarship for 4 year scholarship winners.

When my son was looking at schools, VMI offered nothing other than loans to cover room/board.
 
Tac-p21 said:
As we are in the graduation and commissioning window, might be a good time to update commissioning numbers for 2024.
Click to expand...
The Citadel just put out a press release on this last week. 2024 commissioning numbers as follows:

Army - 102

Air Force/Space Force - 9

Navy - 18

Marines - 21

Total: 150

Interestingly, the press release just says "more than 140" and then goes on to list all the exact numbers.

The Citadel 2024 Commissioning Details
 
banjoppd said:
TAMU has 19 billion. As far a ROTC scholarships they have the Patriot Scholarship which makes a 3 or 4 year scholarship a full ride. Every kid in Texas is trying to get into that school. They aren't very generous with freshman shcolarships. There are many valedictorians and salutatorians paying full price to attend TAMU.

Norwich has the ID White Scholarship-room and board which also makes a full ride for 2-3-4 year scholarships. I think Norwich is picking up the first year tution and room/board for 3 year scholarships making them 4 year full rides.

I believe the Citadel has a few room/board scholarship for 4 year scholarship winners.

When my son was looking at schools, VMI offered nothing other than loans to cover room/board.
Click to expand...
Things have really changed.

Norwich gave the strongest offer to my DS, who has a 3-year scholarship. Basically a free ride for four years with room and board included.

VMI gave the second strongest offer, with free room and board all four years and a very generous scholarship amount towards tuition for freshman year.

The Citadel was in third place, with a somewhat lesser scholarship for freshman year and only a partial offset for the "room" portion of room and board. That said, he did choose The Citadel as it was far and away his top choice overall.

We did not look at TAMU, as we were pretty focused on staying on the East Coast to keep within at least a reasonable distance of being able to get DS back and forth to school and visit from time to time. Charleston is 12 hours from home. TAMU would probably be a 3-day drive, though I'm sure it's a terrific school.
 
EEBTTF said:
My DS Commissioned last Friday from The Citadel. The number I remember was 147. He commissioned into the USMC and there were 17 total in his group
Click to expand...
Outstanding. Will he get put on orders soon? Our friend had to wait about 6 months for orders to TBS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top