Some Questions, regarding USMC!

MichaelT2022 said:
Thank you for this... I am trying to apply to all sources I can find. I spoke to a financial advisor, and I explained that I may be taking up to 200k in debt, BUT although this may sound awful at first, with my Aerospace Engineering Degree - I'd be earning around 100k+ a year. The lady explained to me that I should expect around 30% - 40% of my salary to go to paying off student-debt, and a 15 - 20 year loan plan may be ideal.

I would also be taking a part-time job down in Daytona if I were to fully commit. Therefore, I can "pay-as-I-go."

I think, once I get everything settled with these loans, I will be committed.

Note: I've spoken to counselors at ERAU - I may also qualify for "donor-scholarships," so my debt may also drop a bit more as time goes on.
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Who is co-signing 200k in student loan debt? The limit on what the federal government will loan the student is much lower than that, right? I've been buried in student loan debt much of my adult life so there is no way I'd co-sign for that amount for my kid.
 
MichaelT2022 said:
... explained that I may be taking up to 200k in debt, BUT although this may sound awful at first, with my Aerospace Engineering Degree - I'd be earning around 100k+ a year. The lady explained to me that I should expect around 30% - 40% of my salary to go to paying off student-debt, and a 15 - 20 year loan plan may be ideal.

I would also be taking a part-time job down in Daytona if I were to fully commit. Therefore, I can "pay-as-I-go."
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@MichaelT2022 - What's your backup plan to Aerospace Engineering at Embry Riddle or any school? Many scholarships (School or ROTC) have a minimum GPA required to retain scholarships and plenty of students change their mind about what major to pursue. Read a few posts by @Cadet35 .

@Cmac154 Good points above regarding predatory loans (my word not yours) - If the loan is not federally subsidized the interest may begin accruing immediately, not after graduation. Some loans begin the the payback period immediately. The Federal Limit appears to be $57,500 total for undergraduate though not all of that is subsidized. https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized No way I would cosign that amount for my child either - choose a less expensive option.
 
Ironically, I do appreciate the advice... I've spoken to so many other students who attend this school, and some of who are entering in Fall 2022. All the ones I've spoken to at least have given me the answer that they will be taking out almost the total of their education in student-loans. I'm lucky in some way that my tuition per yr is 50k, , while some I have talked to their tuition in programs like Astronautics, tuition per year is around 75k/yr.

My apologies, if I didn't make this clear, BUT I STILL DO PLAN TO DO NROTC-MO, I will not quit my intention to do so.. I've even heard that ERAU comes in 2nd place after USAFA in number of officers commissioned/yr. Their ROTC program supposedly ranks nationally..
 
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After this post, I declare my intention to quit the field gracefully, pleading severe cranial whiplash.

I can’t reconcile $100k+ “high-paying” job as an aero engineer with NROTC-MO service obligation and O-1 salary of roughly $3477/month taxable salary at 2022 pay rates, plus some additional monthly untaxed housing allowance dollars and subsistence pay. Of course, medical and dental coverage are free.
I can’t fathom part-time job + NROTC requirements + aero major demands + NROTC GPA requirements + Marine fitness requirements. Doable, but painful.
I can’t align federal student loan caps with a predicted $200k over 4 years. That means loans will have to come from other sources, whose interest rates, repayment schedules, penalty clauses, etc., will have to be assessed. I have never seem any conscientious financial advisor recommend a parent co-sign student loans, jeopardizing their own financial stability in the case of default, and impacting their credit rating for years.

But - do research Marine Corps CLRP at reliable sources, College Loan Repayment Program. If that still exists, USMC will repay college loans up to certain caps.

Lastly, if you plan on doing Marine option, get in shape now and drop any excess weight, or that will be hard, hard going for you. That may seem like months off, but there will be expectations of anyone who wants to be a Marine.

I can’t watch this anymore. Best wishes for success on whatever path you find yourself on!
 
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MichaelT2022 said:
Ironically, I do appreciate the advice... I've spoken to so many other students who attend this school, and some of who are entering in Fall 2022. All the ones I've spoken to at least have given me the answer that they will be taking out almost the total of their education in student-loans. I'm lucky in some way that my tuition per yr is 50k, , while some I have talked to their tuition in programs like Astronautics, tuition per year is around 75k/yr.

My apologies, if I didn't make this clear, BUT I STILL DO PLAN TO DO NROTC-MO, I will not quit my intention to do so.. I've even heard that ERAU comes in 2nd place after USAFA in number of officers commissioned/yr. Their ROTC program supposedly ranks nationally..
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What is your SAT score? Your anticipated major is a hard one, with a high wash out rate. What happens if you decide it isn’t for you or you fail out? What’s the average starting salary for the bottom of the class for that major?
 
My brother got 30k in student loans for his PhD in economics. He does extremely well financially.

And he hated his monthly student loan payment. ;)

Best of luck figuring it all out. Pay attention to what these smart people are saying.
 
A1Janitor said:
My brother got 30k in student loans for his PhD in economics. He does extremely well financially.

And he hated his monthly student loan payment. ;)

Best of luck figuring it all out. Pay attention to what these smart people are saying.
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If a PhD in Econ weren't doing well financially, the awarding institution should give a tuition refund.
 
Capt MJ said:
After this post, I declare my intention to quit the field gracefully, pleading severe cranial whiplash.

I can’t reconcile $100k+ “high-paying” job as an aero engineer with NROTC-MO service obligation and O-1 salary of roughly $3477/month taxable salary at 2022 pay rates, plus some additional monthly untaxed housing allowance dollars and subsistence pay. Of course, medical and dental coverage are free.
I can’t fathom part-time job + NROTC requirements + aero major demands + NROTC GPA requirements + Marine fitness requirements. Doable, but painful.
I can’t align federal student loan caps with a predicted $200k over 4 years. That means loans will have to come from other sources, whose interest rates, repayment schedules, penalty clauses, etc., will have to be assessed. I have never seem any conscientious financial advisor recommend a parent co-sign student loans, jeopardizing their own financial stability in the case of default, and impacting their credit rating for years.

But - do research Marine Corps CLRP at reliable sources, College Loan Repayment Program. If that still exists, USMC will repay college loans up to certain caps.

I can’t watch this anymore. Best wishes for success on whatever path you find yourself on!
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My apologies, thank you for your assistance anyway
 
Devil Doc said:
If a PhD in Econ weren't doing well financially, the awarding institution should give a tuition refund.
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I don’t know what he earned when he first started 25 years ago. He is top 3 researcher in his field, sits on editorial boards including top journal in his field, and is an endowed chair.

So he makes more than most in his field. ;)

Edit: just looked it up. Average salary with PhD in economics is 101k. I would not want 200k in student loan debt. Average salary for aero engineer is 80k. Factor in experience and the lower end.
 
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AROTC-dad said:
I am a CFP(r) professional and cannot believe you are considering $200K in loans for ANY school except maybe Medical School or Harvard Law.
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Agreed, but even this is not a great idea.

Many medical students (depending on the school, class rank, residency match and specialty) do not have jobs that will pay big money until a few years down the road. This also assumes that you had zero debt from undergrad as well and can take the pain of accrued interest while in an internship/residency for many years with low pay after medical school.

For law school, that is an even bigger jump. Plenty of students graduate from Harvard Law (and every other law school) each year with a job that will pay below $100k, as the top firms (Big Law now with entry-level salaries for incoming lawyers at $200k +) almost always take just the top of their class at top schools. Harvard's average pay numbers for grads are pretty high, but that is no guarantee you will be one of those making that number (government, public interest, etc.). This also assumes no undergrad loans as well.

Unless you go to Caltech, MIT or Stanford (and a few others) to major in Aero Engineering and you do really well (top 30-40% of your class), it will be tough to land a job with a "guarantee" of $100k or more right out of school.

The US BLS says the "median" salary for an Aero Engineer as of 5/20 was $118,610. Median is not the starting salary, but it covers ALL aero engineers from Day One to Year 40 in their careers:

www.bls.gov

Aerospace Engineers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Aerospace engineers design, develop, and test aircraft, spacecraft, satellites, and missiles.
www.bls.gov www.bls.gov


Apparently, ERAU relies upon "payscale.com" to illustrate starting salary numbers (the piece is from 2011 numbers):


That same organization states that ERAU grads for Aerospace Engineering have a salary range of $63k - $112k and an average of $81,772:

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU) - Daytona Beach, FL Salary | PayScale

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU) - Daytona Beach, FL - Salary - Get a free salary comparison based on job title, skills, experience and education. Accurate, reliable salary and compensation comparisons for United States
www.payscale.com www.payscale.com


@MichaelT2022 - you need to really think this through. Doing an Aero Engineering program for $200k in debt, ROTC and a part-time job is possible but it sounds like a really bad idea that you should avoid.
 
I just want to know what his Math SAT score was and how much Calc he has taken.

If the Math score is below 700 and there is no AP Calc (at a minimum) on the transcript, I would call it predatory lending and pass the lender's name to Elizabeth Warren.

I'm not as graceful as @Capt MJ ...in a number of respects.
 
OldRetSWO said:
If you're planning to start exercise tomorrow. . . or after Thanksgiving. . . etc.
STOP and go out and run NOW. I don't care if its raining, I don't care if its cold, just go and do it every day. And build up QUICKLY as your DI is not going to start slow and ramp it up gently.
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DO NOT OVERTRAIN YOURSELF, push yourself but listen to your body as well. I can't tell you enough how many candidates we had show up to PLC and fail the initial PFT just because they trained too hard prior to arriving. Those candidates were all well fit and scored high on the PFT, just didn't know how to PROPERLY workout and taper prior to the actual event. The mentality of "Work Hard as much as you can", is a good one to have but you need to be smart about it too. Eat a healthy diet, have a workout schedule and know when too rest. If you overtrain yourself and push through pain that you shouldn't be ignoring you could jeopardize your Military career. If that happens, your going to be hurting and the Military will just find someone else to replace you.
 
cb7893 said:
I just want to know what his Math SAT score was and how much Calc he has taken.

If the Math score is below 700 and there is no AP Calc (at a minimum) on the transcript, I would call it predatory lending and pass the lender's name to Elizabeth Warren.

I'm not as graceful as @Capt MJ ...in a number of respects.
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MichaelT2022 said:
Um well... my stats are NOT the greatest but I still got an invite, and I'm going on October 7th for the overnight visit.

I'm from IN, My ACT was a 22 with a 8 on the writing, 1050 SAT. 2 years of Varsity Track/Cross Country. I don't think it has to do with these stats

My GPA is literally a 3.30
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I thought he had posted his SAT previously. 1050.

Michael - do what you want, but I don’t like your chances of completing an aerospace engineering degree with that score. 200k in student debt is a ridiculous number for almost any profession. Your applications to USMA and USAFA were closed out, presumably due to your non-competitive SAT score. You haven’t mentioned your USNA application in ages, but the congressional nomination committee cut short your interview because of your non-competitive scores. You have yourself said you aren’t competitive for a ROTC scholarship, and I agree. You previously said you have 28% body fat - have you completed a CFA?

Read through your previous posts and all the different plans you have committed yourself to in the last 6 months. Why have you changed your mind so frequently?

I think you need to sit down and have a conversation with your father about developing a reasonable and economical plan to move forward that doesn’t count on a ROTC scholarship. Your willingness to serve is admirable, but I think it’s time to face the reality that officer accession programs aren’t likely to be in your future.
 
1050/22 is not going to get you into ERAU for engineering. $50 or $75k per year is insane either way. Its not a bargain because someone is paying more than you. ERAU isn't producing engineers that are making so much more money per year than State U that it makes sense. You said you live in Indiana, you have an amazing engineering school in your state called Purdue! According to the Google machine it is less than $10k per year and a better engineering degree. Its also a wonderful NROTC program. Paying back over $200k in school debt on a USMC salary, you are not going to like life much, in fact you are going to be counting pennies in reality. ERAU can be a great school, but that debt load is going to saddle you for at least 2 decades and make starting a family, buying a house, pursuing a Masters degree very challenging. As everyone else has stated, none of these plans are sound or logical. You need to evaluate your chances of actually getting into ERAU and making it as an engineer. Plenty of young men and women do that with stats like that, but its with 2 years of community college under them (also not a bad plan in any way). If your plan is to do NROTC-MO, then you are not pursuing aerospace engineering as your first career, you will have at least 3-5 years as a USMC officer depending on your final commissioning source. So you won't be making $100k that everyone is selling you. If you drop the USMC path along the way, then you are still going to have terrible school debt. Why are you quoting ERAU for commissioning numbers compared to USAFA? You want to pursue NROTC-MO, what are their stats in awarding 3 and 4 year side loads? What about those who are college programmers getting contracts? What is their success rate at OCS? You are running around in circles with your logic, career choices, etc.
 
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NavyHoops said:
1050/22 is not going to get you into ERAU for engineering. $50 or $75k per year is insane either way. Its not a bargain because someone is paying more than you. ERAU isn't producing engineers that are making so much more money per year than State U that it makes sense. You said you live in Indiana, you have an amazing engineering school in your state called Purdue! According to the Google machine it is less than $10k per year and a better engineering degree. Its also a wonderful NROTC program. Paying back over $200k in school debt on a USMC salary, you are not going to like life much, in fact you are going to be counting pennies in reality. ERAU can be a great school, but that debt load is going to saddle you for at least 2 decades and make starting a family, buying a house, pursuing a Masters degree very challenging. As everyone else has stated, none of these plans are sound or logical. You need to evaluate your chances of actually getting into ERAU and making it as an engineer. Plenty of young men and women do that with stats like that, but its with 2 years of community college under them (also not a bad plan in any way). If your plan is to do NROTC-MO, then you are not pursuing aerospace engineering as your first career, you will have at least 3-5 years as a USMC officer depending on your final commissioning source. So you won't be making $100k that everyone is selling you. If you drop the USMC path along the way, then you are still going to have terrible school debt. Why are you quoting ERAU for commissioning numbers compared to USAFA? You want to pursue NROTC-MO, what are their stats in awarding 3 and 4 year side loads? What about those who are college programmers getting contracts? What is their success rate at OCS? You are running around in circles with your logic, career choices, etc.
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Thank you I was going to ask what state schools with reasonable costs he might be passing on.


I hope in the long run the op will look back and see this thread as being helpful with the final decision even though it can’t be all that easy to read at times.
 
Korab said:
I thought he had posted his SAT previously. 1050.

Michael - do what you want, but I don’t like your chances of completing an aerospace engineering degree with that score. 200k in student debt is a ridiculous number for almost any profession. Your applications to USMA and USAFA were closed out, presumably due to your non-competitive SAT score. You haven’t mentioned your USNA application in ages, but the congressional nomination committee cut short your interview because of your non-competitive scores. You have yourself said you aren’t competitive for a ROTC scholarship, and I agree. You previously said you have 28% body fat - have you completed a CFA?

Read through your previous posts and all the different plans you have committed yourself to in the last 6 months. Why have you changed your mind so frequently?

I think you need to sit down and have a conversation with your father about developing a reasonable and economical plan to move forward that doesn’t count on a ROTC scholarship. Your willingness to serve is admirable, but I think it’s time to face the reality that officer accession programs aren’t likely to be in your future.
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Thanks for the deep dive.

Anyone who would lend this young man $50K, of $25k for a semester, to go try Astronautics (whatever that is) or Aeronautical Engineering should go to jail, especially if the US gov't is backing some portion of the loan.

For the record, I think everyone's chain is getting yanked.
 
cb7893 said:
Thanks for the deep dive.

Anyone who would lend this young man $50K, of $25k for a semester, to go try Astronautics (whatever that is) or Aeronautical Engineering should go to jail, especially if the US gov't is backing some portion of the loan.

For the record, I think everyone's chain is getting yanked.
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Since the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005 student loans are no longer dischargeable in bankruptcy filings. So if the debtor has student loans, they're with you for life or until paid off. Unlike any other type of debt. Even federal tax debts have a 10 year statute or they're wiped off the books. Some tax debts (federal, state & local) can even be disharged in bankruptcy.

Can't pay your mortgage? Sell your house/condo or just wait for eventual foreclosure.
Can't pay your auto loan or boat loan? Either sell or wait for lender repossession or turn over your asset voluntarily.
Can't pay your credit cards? File bankruptcy & they are almost guaranteed to be discharged.
Can't pay your student loans? It's like owing money to the Mafia. You've got to find a way to pay. Or your life is hell.

Hmmm. Now that I think about it wasn't around 2005 that cost of college education started to balloon out of whack? Might it have been related to the Bankruptcy Reform Act of that year? Colleges, realizing students could borrow more, began charging more. And more. And more. Lenders kept approving the higher & higher loans. Now student loan debt is greater than any other kind of debt. A historical anomoly which isn't going away any time soon.

Up until 2005 you get a college education with a couple of part-time jobs, being a lifeguard during the summer and maybe some some relatively small loans.

Anyone who would lend $50K or $25K per semester to the young man in question of this thread is getting an almost guaranteed repayment, with added interest, somewhere down the line. Hardly any risk at all.

Why doesn't the federal government amend the non-dischargeable element of student loans? The big lenders whom also are big time political campaign contributors (surely, just a coincidence!) would frown on legislators taking this action.

It's all about the Benjamins. It always is.
 
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