Sports, and your academy application

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Christcorp, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    This isn't in response to any particular thread of poster. I'm simply writing it in the hopes that any new people will find it when, or if they do a search on the topic.

    It seems that in recent years, more and more applicants are asking questions about sports, or rather the lack of sports, in their application. Granted, this forum is a very small sample of air force academy applicants. Probably less than 1% of all applicants. E.g. 12,000 initial applicants; probably no more than 100 posters/lurkers for any given academy application year on this forum. For some reason however, there seems to be a lot of individuals, or their parents, who post questions concerning their lack of sports during their high school years.

    Honestly, I don't really need to know or hear reasons why you didn't do some sports. Personally, I think sports are quite important to the development of young people. The academies and the NCAA feel the same way. Here is a list of attributes the NCAA has provided to universities nationally to demonstrate why sports is so important.

    "What does athletics teach individuals:
    Attention to detail , Awareness of diversity, Challenging yourself , Commitment, Communication, Competition , Confidence , Cooperation , Coordination , Decision making , Dedication, Determination , Diligence, Discipline, Endurance, Fitness, Flexibility, Focus, Following plans/directions, Give/take feedback and criticism, Goal-directed, Improvement, Integrity, Individual/group effort, Keeping records, Leadership, Learning from failure, Management, Multitasking, Organization, Overcome obstacles, Pain/fatigue management, Patience,Performance, Persistence, Positive attitude, Prioritizing, Problem solving,Punctuality, Pursuit of excellence, Respect, Responsibility, Scheduling, Self-directed, Self-esteem, Set goals, Strategies, Stress management, Supervision, Tactics (offense/defense), Teaching, Teamwork , Thinking on your feet, Time management, Training motivation, Work ethic."

    So yes, sports does aid in fitness, but the main measurement for the academy is the CFA. Sports isn't so important on the resume/application because of fitness. It's mainly for all the other reasons listed above. And high school sports is one method that is easily measured and documented to show that you have been involved in sports. It shows the teamwork, leadership, dedication, and all the other attributes listed above.

    2 very important things however.
    1) It doesn't have to be "High School Varsity Sports". Some applicants don't have those opportunities. But if you can show city league sports, summer league sports, YMCA TEAM sports, competitive martial arts, or other sports that are "Team Oriented" and competitive, that will bode well for you. Saying that you run every day, or you go to the gym every day and work out, isn't enough. Remember, your fitness is measured with the CFA. Sports is for SO MUCH MORE!!!

    2) Yes, you can argue that other activities have many of these same attributes. That may be true, but sports are something that can be easily measured. If you're going to try and compensate all of the above attributes in an activity other than in an organized team sport, then you better be able to illustrate how you attained those attributes in your essays, teacher's recommendations, etc.

    Not saying that some people without any sports weren't able to get an appointment. Some have. But it is very difficult. Even as of last year's entering class of 2018, 82% had VARSITY LETTERS in 1 or more sports. The number is even higher when you look at team sport candidates who didn't get a varsity letter. The point is, sports are very important to the academy for all the reasons listed above. Your competition, the vast majority of them, have done sports. It is documented; thus the attributes that sports represent, have been validated. You will be at a major disadvantage in your application if you don't do sports. And not just one year so you can "Fill a Square" on your applications. (But even 1 year is better than NO YEARS). And, for what it's worth, most universities put a lot of stock in applicants with a sports background for the same exact reasons. So being involved in sports is important not just for applying to the academies, but also for other universities.

    So, if you've read this post during your lurking or searching, then you now know why sports is so important. You will not gain anything by explaining to anyone on this forum why you COULDN'T do sports. We aren't the ones who will be reviewing your package. Nothing we say matters. Realize however, that if you didn't/don't do any sports in high school, you better do one heck of job describing all the attributes listed above some place in your application so the academy can feel confident that you've aquired the benefits of sports in another area. And just in case, you better also kick butt in your CFA test just to help your cause.

    Again, this thread is not directed towards any individual poster or thread on this forum. I've simply noticed an increasing number of questions over the past few years about sports, why it's important, and individuals trying to explain why they haven't done any. Hopefully, potential candidates and lurkers will find this thread in their searches. Hopefully it will explain why sports is so important. Hopefully it will save them a lot of time so they aren't posting all the reasons why they haven't done any sports and what our opinions are. Best of luck. mike.
     
  2. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    CC, your points are well taken. My DD is an equestrian and has competed in various competitions since the age of 5. She did try track in the 8th grade, but it was too difficult to mix the two sports with time commitments. There is a lot more to caring for your horse than just riding, so not much time left at the end of the day. She did, however, earn her varsity letter from the United States Equestrian Federation for 9th through 11th grade and will earn her fourth one by the end of June. Her school does not even have a varsity letter program, so she had to go outside to earn it. We are hoping this will be enough sports, as she was not able to do any others. She did manage to be champion of her division at a few of her competitions, but it's not really a 'team' sport like football or basketball. It has been her passion, or might I say, in her blood for a very long time. Thanks again for your sage advice!
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Off topic for a second,

    FalconRock, my DD also is an equestrian. She started barrel racing when she was 9. The amount of body strength to control a horse is really amazing. She is tiny (5'1), and her arms just from lifting the saddle was a good work out, let alone how much leg strength that is needed to control a horse could make most people feel sore after an hour.

    Just saying most people that rent a horse to ride on a trail as a date do not understand those are not the horses our kids ride. The ones that our DDs ride are in their own right athletes among the horse world. Her farm and instructors made them do it all to be part of the competition. As she got older it included mucking stalls and breaking in foals too. As they became a stronger rider the horse also was a higher level. In the end there were only two horses that her and 2 other riders were allowed to ride because the horses were that high of a level. The owners were not willing to risk the health of the rider or horse just for anybody to ride it.

    To me the equestrian world can be compared to TKD. Many kids do TKD, but paying the 100 bucks a month to get a new belt, is not the same as competing in TKD. The training and expectations are night and day.

    Back on topic.

    Mike always gives sage advice, however this portion of his post impo must be stressed.
    I would add that by explaining why, and highlighting what you did do instead may come off as making excuses. The people, such as ALOs, are military affiliated, be AD now or retired. That means they know what the AD life is like, and making excuses for why you couldn't doesn't fly well with the boss. It just sounds like an excuse, which typically is followed up with ... well, did you try to this instead?
    ~ IE I am very involved with the Robotics team and we meet the same time as the swim team practice. Our robotics team competes nationally.
    ~~ Okay, but I see you worked at WalMart, did you ever think of being a lifeguard since you enjoy swimming? Why not, obviously you were able to juggle robotics and work.
    ~ I see you have done dance since 5 outside of school, why did you not join the HS dance team? Does your dance school have a competitive team? If so, are you on it?

    Just saying excuses go only so far.
     
  4. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Pima, thanks for your response, it sounds like we have a lot in common concerning our DDs, but I'm not quite sure how to take your post. I understand exactly what you are saying about excuses, but I was not trying to make excuses. My DD does compete a minimum of 4 events a year. We do what we can afford, and I am sure you know how much each event costs. The requirements to earn an equestrian letter from USEF (United States Equestrian Federation) are 100 hours of training, 3 USEF sanctioned competitions per school year and good academic standing in school. She has been riding since 5, owned a horse since the age of 12 (the first of which saved $1000 to pay for half) and did exactly what your DD did: mucking, grooming, riding and caring for her horse. It is no small task as you know. It is her sport and she takes it very seriously. She at one time was set on being an Olympic rider, but we just could not compete with the cost and politics involved, so she has put that on the back burner for now.

    She did not even know the AFA existed until February of this year. She found out about SS mid March and applied on the last day. After attending SS, she was utterly convinced that the AFA is for her and is now so excited and intent on making her record shine. Perhaps if she had known about the AFA prior to her freshman year, she could have done a different sport. But the way things are now, she can't possibly take on another sport on top of her equestrian obligations. She can't just toss her horse into the closet with the used basket balls and track shoes. She is committed to her sport and I believe that is far more telling. Even if she could run track this year, (she can't ride her horse and run track at the same time) it would not do her any good as it would be padding her resume and/or that resume is due NOW, so will not hold much weight. You, more than most, know that riding horses is physically and mentally demanding and like TKD is mostly an individual sport (although the horse and rider are one team and there are equestrian teams as well), but most people do not. They think the horse does all the work. TKD and horse competitions are identical. You compete against your opponent as an individual. It is still competition, and the best rider/horse team wins. It takes many hours of training and practice (not to mention $$$ and lots of failure) to be a good rider and win the prize. I am hoping it will be enough for her to be competitive for an AFA appointment.

    On another note, her school is a very small, all honors courses, no electives, college prep school. Her senior class has 44 students, so that gives you an idea about how small the school is. She has a 3.97U/4.84W GPA and is ranked #8, so she's not even in the top 15% of her class. They do not offer NHS, debate team nor student council and although they do have sports, there is no letter program. So, she has a lot of things going against her. Most of her ECs are clubs at school (she does compete nationally in the Latin club but this is not a sport), community involvement and Scouts. She has had to go outside of school to find successful leadership opportunities. Her die is cast, so to speak, and we are hoping it will be competitive and she will earn the honor of an appointment. If not, she has great plans B, C, and D (most likely will be a NMF but won't know until September). She will be disappointed, but will push on.

    You often give great advice and I appreciate your candor, but wanted to clarify a few things. Giddy-up! :wiggle:
     
  5. Boozebin

    Boozebin Member

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    I would also like to add MoC review boards for nominations will also look at this as well.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I probably shouldn't put words in Pima's mouth, and I'm sure she won't let me anyway - but I took her post as one being more about wording. Don't approach it as "I couldn't do this sport because of X, Y, Z". Instead, "I chose to focus on this sport because I get/learned A, B, C by doing so." I think she was focusing more on presentation.

    Like I said, Pima will correct me if I'm wrong.
     
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  7. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I speak "PIMA", i've been studying it for about 8 years; so let me translate. She had 2 totally separate topics in her post. That's why she started with "Off Topic". She was speaking to Falconrock about their kids and horses and the hard work etc. involved in it. It had nothing to do with part two.

    Hence, she came back with "Back on topic". She was then simply adding her position on a point I made about not making excuses why you didn't do any sports. (By the way, she is 100% correct). Pima's comment on that, had absolutely nothing to do with your daughter, horses, it being or not being a sport, etc. If anything, I believe she recognized equestrian as a sport. (I do too for what it's worth; especially the ones that are team oriented).

    So don't take it that any part of "Part 2" of her post had anything to do with "Part 1" about what you have in common with daughters and horses. (Pima, you can correct me if I'm wrong).
     
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  8. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Hey, hey, hey! Don't get me wrong, please, I love Pima and have taken to heart many of her posts (I have probably read 80% of her 11,628 of them :rolleyes:), she always has good advice. The clarification was mostly for myself and my DD. It's hard not to compare your DD to the many other 'what are my chances; how do I look' posts that go on here, especially when your DDs school is not your typical school, or your DD/DS has not had sights on a SA/ROTC program all their lives, or does not partake in the usual high school sports. I take great comfort in knowing that Pima, CC, Boozebin, Kinnem, Fencersmother, Stealth and many others (I can't possibly name them all), offer their insights and knowledge to those of us who are just beginning our SA/ROTC application roller coaster ride. I did not take offense or hold any ill will toward any poster on here, especially Pima, and especially when I make a mistake ( for which I immediately grovel, apologize and put myself in timeout) to rectify. As far as I'm concerned, Pima and Fencersmother are goddesses on this post, and all words shall be heeded. :biggrin:

    Back on topic: sports are incredibly important for all the reasons cited in CC OP, so if you are a freshman or sophomore reading this post, listen up and take his advice, take on the sport and offer no excuses as to why you can't. Just do it and do it well! Pima is right, excuses only go so far.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Mike does indeed speak Pima.
    It was meant to say that for our DDs, their athletics are outside the box, even further outside than TKD. Many do not still realize that TKD for students like my DS1 was not just getting a belt. He competed and won 2x State Champion, and was a bronze junior olympian medalist. It meant traveling every weekend for competitions year round. He had to be asked by the Master to try out. That meant he had to spar with the competition team members to prove he could handle it, regardless of weight class or belt.

    The point is for our DDs it takes an amazing amount of strength to control a horse running and turning between barrels within a few seconds. Saturdays were barrel races, and Sundays were me blowing dirt out of my nose from the event. The reason you don't see a lot of female jockeys is the strength required to control a horse. Many people will think that doing even dressage just means dressing up in pretty outfits. They don't get the strength required (athletics) to control the horse when it is jittery. They just assume that this looks fun and easy, kind of like how they see TKD.

    Someone once made a comment about it is a sport that seems fun with no worries like if they played a competitive sport. I looked at them and said go tell that to Christopher Reeves or the multiple jockeys that are in wheelchairs. Yes, all of the sudden jumping a fence or traveling as fast as a car on the back of a horse that weighs 10X more than the rider with nothing more than a thin helmet for safety didn't seem so safe to them. The next question was: than why did you let her do it? Two minutes earlier it was an easy sport in their eyes and now they have my kid in a wheelchair.

    It was meant as a compliment to you and your DD.

    As Mike stated that is why I said back on topic. I wanted to make sure there was a definitive line. As kinnem and Mike stated the 2nd part was aimed at many students and later on candidates....I can't/couldn't because.... that may be seen as an excuse by many.

    I do have an exception, but it truly is a rare exception. Mom and Dad work 2 jobs and there is no way they can take me back and forth everyday for practice. There are no afterschool buses. I live in rural XYZ and don't drive. Bullet and I live in an area where we all have at least 10 acres, there are no after school buses either. However, my DS still played FB because even if I was working those days, his Dad would still be home by 6:30 to pick him up at practice. It could have been an easy excuse not to play a sport, but we cut that out from his knees by saying to him someone will always be there to pick you up. Basically said...next excuse?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
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  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I hope that lurkers and posters really do see that when you read a poster saying something like equestrian, or skateboarding, even mushing, can be seen as a sport, BUT you can't just say I do it. You need to have something to back it up like falcons and my DD. Being a member of their national organization with competitions under your belt.

    Many will say I don't do sports, but I am athletic. I work out at the Y weightlifting 3x a week and can press X amt. Great now go find how to compete in weightlifting in your area. Can't than go to the Y and apply to be a personal trainer.
    ~ Just saying you do it means nothing, I can say I do Yoga everyday, but so what! However, if I say my job is teaching it than your opinion automatically changes regarding the level I can perform.

    You know that the Swim team is a cut team, and you won't make it 1st year. Oh well, than get a job at the local Y as a lifeguard and swim. If you still don't make it, than at least they will see that at some level you are athletic because you are a guard.

    Play soccer in the fall, but can't make the traveling team for the spring? Apply to be a ref for the little kids on the local league. They make a lot of money per game in my area.(75 per game...6 hrs over a weekend =450) A lot more than bagging at the local grocery store. The job also reiterates to them athleticism, commitment to your one sport, and in a way leadership since you are the one with the whistle.

    As you can see everytime you make an excuse, I can find a new way to prove you can have some form of athletics in your portfolio.
     
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  11. 2018DAD

    2018DAD Member

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    Pima,

    Again off topic..but to confirm:

    My wife had a horse compete in the 2004 Olympics in Eventing (3day).. He was a credentialed athlete just as any (human) athlete..he (the horse) had his own competitors package with passes, ID, competition clearance etc!! Way cool to say the least!
    2018Dad
     
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  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    To make you horse lovers laugh. I remember back in 08, maybe 09 there was an appointee here that asked if she could bring her horse?!? No lie, it is somewhere in the bowels here. Mike and fencer might remember it too. The answer was Yes, they have stables, but not a wise decision due to limited freedom.
    ~ I laughed only from the fact that you can bring 1 personal item. Others were discussing skis and clubs, how to store them. She was asking about a 1000-1400 lb pet!
    ~~The thread went off topic very quickly regarding cadets with pets in their rooms. 1 pet was a cat, which they moved room to room. My DD at VT beat that story. A cadet heard of room inspections, in his infinite wisdom disposed of his snakes tank, and placed it in a shoe box in his closet!
    They opened the shoe box, the snake slithered out and into the hallway, not to be found for 24 hours, on a different floor. He couldn't understand why they brought him up to the review board. Afterall, they found the snake!

    Back on topic, for ALOs, BGOs, and FFRs. What is the most uncommon sport you have seen for your candidates?

    How did they work it with the SAs ?

    I know when my DS placed TKD his ALO never had a state, national or junior olympian champ. He requested a letter from his Master describing their training process. Very detailed, down to how many hours a week he trained, how many weeks he trained, type of of training methods (bicycle inner tubes for donkey kicks). The ALO just assumed since he had never had a candidate in TKD it was just pay a check and show up 2 hrs a week.

    Where is the line you draw that you consider not a sport? Is there a line?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  13. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    USAFA (and other SAs) want to see dedication, perserverence, skill, leadership.

    CC, your advice is, as always, spot on!
     
  14. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    I speak PIMA! I think I might even speak CC! :)

    Yes, some sports are totally "outside the box" and I do remember someone asking if they could stable their horse on the USAFA campus! It must have been early - 08, I think.

    Sports which are outside of traditional high school sports it seems to me carry a further measure of dedication than those which are typically found among SA applicants (and other high school students). TKD, fencing, equestrian events, all require at the higher levels a dedication from the participant that surpasses the six or twelve week season of school sports. For you in the horse set, yes, mucking, dressing, etc, and taking good care of TWO athletes shows complete dedication. TKA, like fencing, a year round sport requiring hours and hours of practice, national competitions, and for all OSS (Outside School Sports)(a new acronym!), dedication to working on your own, without the support of a school system. I do not think I have EVER heard of any SA discriminating against an applicant who showed such dedication.
     
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  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Fencing momma. Just a little tidbit. Each school and their varsity sports are different. Most states, just like the ncaa, doesn't allow varsity sports practices except during certain times of the year. E.g. Football, both high school and college ncaa, usually only allow team practice during the actual season, "X" amount during the spring practice period, and "X" amount of 2-a-days during the summer prior to official season and practices opening up. These are ncaa and most state rules. If you have team practices at any other time, your team can be banned from competition for the entire season. This is similar in many ncaa and high school varsity sports.

    However, most teams have off season workouts. E.g. High school and ncaa have weight room and conditioning training. Mandatory for the ncaa athletes; including Air Force football players. Pseudo mandatory for high school varsity. I say pseudo, because while they can't make it mandatory, unless you happen to be the star player on the team, chances are you won't get much playing time if you weren't in the weight room or conditioning room during the spring and summer. The weight room and conditioning are run by the coaches, so they know if you're there. Between football and soccer, my son was involved basically 11 months out of the year. And he still found time to be a class officer, do his IB CAS hours, his TOK for IB, his other hours of volunteer time, his play it smart sports tutoring of other players to help keep their grades up, all his IB classes with a 4.0 gpa unweighted, as well as family time and a social life with his girl friend. Not to mention all the in between stuff like boys state, summer seminar for the academy, national honor society member and officer, band up to 10th grade, (yes, time was real busy).

    The thing is, my son really didn't do all that much that was special or above and beyond. If you get an appointment to the academy, you'll find that the majority of cadets had a 6am to 11pm type of schedule in high school. The majority are now a small fish in a large pond because the majority of cadets had similar high school experiences. So Pima is correct. We don't want to hear excuses of why you didn't do athletics. If I do hear an excuse that matters, and I have heard some that did matter, it's got to be on the lines of: I went to school all day, worked 30-40 hours a week because my mom is a single parent and also worked 2 jobs. That you had to take care of your younger brother and sister also. And even that person who told me that, played summer baseball with a city league and a Sunday church basketball league in the winter. Another was a kid who's father worked two jobs and his mother had MS real bad and he took care of her and his siblings after school. Even he found time for summer soccer city league that he got his younger brother and sister into. Same with the rural ranch or farm kid who worked the family land 6-8 months a year besides school because they couldn't hire a ranch hand.

    Some of the questions in the essays or with the alo and moc, are about handling adversity, stress, and challenges in your life. These kids did so above and beyond what most applicants will ever contend with. And these are the kids you will be competing with and against. These are the kids that still managed to be in the top 10% of their high school class. These are the kids, as an alo, I'm going to make sure the academy knows in my report how much they really need to be considered by the admissions board. Most applicants who say they couldn't do this, or wasn't able to do that, have no idea what true adversity is or what a real hardship is. Not all. But most. That's why the academy diversity program is so extensive. It's not just about gender or race. It's also about the kids who do shift work with their parents raising their younger siblings, working jobs for money that goes straight to the family income, having to have responsibilities that a 16-17 year old shouldn't have to have. And still..... They manage to keep their grades up, do some sort of team sport, and make their application competitive.

    Sorry for the novel. And I wasn't trying to lecture anyone reading this. But I want you all to realize that the applicant pool isn't just a bunch of middle class kids, from traditional families with a mom and dad, where one parent could raise the kids and take them to soccer, ballet, choir, etc. Where applying to the academy is just another school and they're guaranteed to get accepted some place. The 1200 +/- who get accepted to the academies, are the same ones who could probably get accepted to most universities in the country. The competition is tough. How bad you want the academy doesn't matter. How long you've wanted it doesn't matter. Being in JrRotc or cap or scouts for 4,6,8 years, isn't what matters. What matters is, being the best that you could possibly be, given the environment and what you had to work with. If you do the best you can with what is available, whether it's the IB program or home schooled with some community college or online classes, or a full compliment of varsity sports or having to do city league or summer ymca teams, just do the best you can with what you have. That's what matter. Best of luck. Mike.
     
  16. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I'll say at my school at least you can find our football team on the field after school in January running plays with towels in place of footballs. The regulations might say we can only have X number of practices, but believe me when I say a lot of schools, if not all schools, do unofficial(I'm not sure if this is the right word for this situation) practices. We also workout year-round and have meetings for game planning.

    School sports teams do things for a lot more than six to twelve weeks. The Monday after my football team lost in the playoffs last year we started preparing for the next season.
     
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Not to go to off topic, but there's a lot of ways around the rules. 1st: If it's high school, that's a state or school district ruling not a national rule. And if the rules are similar to the NCAA, which are national rules, it simply states "Official" practices. I.e. coaches directed. It's totally acceptable for the "Players" to work out on their own. Sounds like your school and district has different rules. Maybe they work around it by not actually using a football, but a towel instead. Thus, they aren't breaking whatever rules there are.
     
  18. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    Not trying to steer off topic, but there actually is evidence that a SA(not the Air Force Academy) prefers school sports over non-school sports. A West Point admissions study produced a chart that says how many points a candidate gets on their WCS for athletic activities. I'm not trying to say since USMA does it a certain way USAFA does it the same way, but there is evidence that one service academy prefers school sports. Here is the chart:


    ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES SCORE (AT): A score reflecting a candidate's athletic participation awarded in accordance with the following guidelines:

    800: An outstanding athlete (All-American, First team All-Area selection in
    baseball/softball, basketball or football) and either Athletic rating of 1 or 2 in the sport in
    which honors are received or CFA score > 650.
    700:
    (1) First-team All-Area selection in a single sport (other than baseball/softball, basketball
    or football);
    (2) Captain of baseball/softball, basketball, or football team;
    (3) Team captain in two or more sports (other than baseball/softball, basketball or
    football) for class size over 100); and
    (4) Ranger or Special Forces tab [Soldiers].
    600:
    (1) Captain of team (other than baseball/softball, basketball, or football);
    (2) Varsity letter in baseba11/softba11, basketball, or football; and
    (3) Varsity letter in two or more sports (other than baseball/softball, basketball, or
    football).
    500:
    (1) Varsity letter in a single sport (other than baseball/softball, basketball, or football); and
    (2) Expert Infantryman Badge, Expert Field Medical Badge, Jumpmaster, or Presidential
    Fitness award [Soldiers].
    400:
    (1) Participation in a varsity sport (no letter);
    (2) Graduate of Airborne, Air Assault, Pathfinder, or comparable other _Army school
    [Soldiers]; and
    (3) Maximum score on Army Physical Fitness Test [Soldiers].
    300:
    (1) Participation in junior-varsity and other team sports (not intramurals); and
    (2) Soldier status.
    200: No participation and no evidence of interest in sports.
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Frenzy,

    That is USMA, not USAFA.

    I am too lazy to pull up the stats for the class of 2019 or 2018, but my Polish pea brain seems to recall that at least 85% of the incoming class have varsity sports under their belt.

    I also think it is how you read that study.
    This says to me that you have to not only be that number 1 athlete, but to max out you need to have a score of no less than 650 on the CFA. IE a run of 7:58 mile is probably going to not meet the standards for the 650 score. Thus, no 800 points for the candidate.

    Now look at the 700
    ALL AREA could include fencers DS that was recruited for fencing (outside the box). Hornetguy that was TKD champion. The cheerleader. The recruited swimmer. It was not you have to have 1,2,3 AND 4
    ~Seriously, how many candidates have a Special Forces or Rangers tab as a candidate?
    ~~ Rangers and Special Forces were included because the Army knows the physical requirements.

    I read it as 1 of the 4, not all 4.

    Finally, getting back on topic to what Mike was trying to state, appointments are WCS. Athletics will be part of that score. It is not done just to recruit jocks. It is done because athletics require kids to learn team building, time management, and impo, the ability to get over losing and to fight again tomorrow because you dusted off yesterdays loss.

    I will add one more thing....sorry Mike for hijacking your thread.
    Don't fool yourselves. They can read between the lines if you join track as a senior. It is resume building in my mind.
    Most candidates will apply for AFROTC scholarship as plan B. Guess what?
    ~ AFROTC scholarship does not work like USAFA. AFROTC scholarship board for selection only looks at whatever you have through the end of your junior year for ECs. That means to them you will have no sports.

    I think any and every ALO will also be able to see through the joining a sport spring junior year or fall senior as padding the resume.
    ~ FYI, my close friends DS got principal. He jumped around sports every year until his junior year. The kid played FB as a freshmen. Bball as a sophomore. Wrestling as a junior and senior. Meanwhile he also played the trumpet all 4 years. Bagpipes too (outside of school). Competed internationally. The point is he was never the Captain, but he always had sports, and also did band too. The kid now flies F18s in the Navy as a USNA grad. He wasn't padding his resume impo because all he was doing by changing sports was finding what athletically fit him. It took time to find out that wrestling was his sport. Yet, he could explain to the ALO and BGO that he felt leaving FB or BBALL was in part team play. He knew that he could help the school better in a different sport. He didn't quit the team mid season. He was smart. He turned his jumping sports into a positive. He stressed that for him he thought/believed he would be a better asset in a different area from an athletic standpoint. It just took him a while to find out where he was the better asset. He never left sports, he just acknowledge to himself that he was the weakest link in his other sports.

    Please remember that most ALOs will have at least 6-9 candidates, and probably more every year. The ALOs, like Mike and Flieger here also have a voice in that WCS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  20. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I know, but fencersmother said she has never heard of a service academy discriminating against non-school sports. This could lead people to believe that all of the service academies have no preference for school sports, when there is in fact evidence that at least one service academy(USMA) prefers school sports.
    I read it as 1 of the 4 too and I think that is the way it was intended to be read. However, I don't think the All Area includes non-school sports. I am a captain of a basketball team but it is not my high school's basketball team. As much as I would like it to be true, I don't think I will get 700 points for being the captain of a non-school basketball team even though under 700 it says "Captain of baseball/softball, basketball, or football team". But in the study it also says "In a process as imprecise as leadership assessment, subjective judgment must be applied to the evaluation process in order to take into consideration special situations". So a TKD champion would likely get more points than the chart says he or she would get.



    I think you misread what it says. "An outstanding athlete (All-American, First team All-Area selection in baseball/softball, basketball or football) and either Athletic rating of 1 or 2 in the sport in which honors are received or CFA score > 650"
    The key word is either. To get the 800 you have to get All-American, First team All-Area selection in baseball/softball, basketball or football and you have to either get an athletic rating of 1 or 2 OR score above a 650 on the CFA. You need to get the 650 or get the athletic rating, you don't need both. That's how I read it.

    Also, it's probably possible to score a 650 on the CFA even with the slowest possible passing mile if one gets a max score on every other section of the CFA.
     

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