Stand and Fight …. No one gets out of this World alive

Small Team Bacsi said:
My understanding from earlier articles was that this was potentially one complicated issue.

We want the poles to give MIG jets to the Ukraine AF. We are then going to give Poland US jets.

Now it kind of looks like the poles are giving the mig jets to the US and they expect the MIGs will get to the Ukraine AF now. How those jets get there will most likely not be announced before hand

This may not be totally accurate :)

And things may have changed while I was typing.

And I think if this happens nothing about it is accidental. including the fighting that may likely come after. We are facing down Russia and it may end up being a shooting war. (with nato directly involved)
Click to expand...
This was basically a case of the Poles calling Biden's diplomatic bluff. They pressed Poland to release the MIGs to Ukraine. The Poles said "No. But we'll give them to you and you can give them to Ukraine." And now, somehow, giving MIGs to Ukraine is a bad idea. Go figure.
 
EDelahanty said:
Just remember that truth is the first casualty in war. It may or may not be true, similar to the claim that the Ukrainians just destroyed 30 Russian helicopters on the ground or that Russians are being killed at a rate of 1,000 soldiers per day.

Now, if it is true it would be a major blow to the Russians and a huge boost to Ukrainian morale. The general in question is Valery Gerasimov, the #2 guy in the Russian military establishment behind Sergei Shoygu, a career engineer and bureaucrat. Gerasimov was the leader of Russian forces and Ukrainian separatists involved in the 2014 battle of Ilovaisk, during the conflict over the breakaway area of Donetsk. Ukrainians will remember when their forces were surrounded and trapped, they were offered a corridor to safely retreat. Once the retreat began, they were slaughtered.
Click to expand...
The general in question is Vitaly Gerasimov, not Valery Gerasimov. The death of Valery Gerasimov would be an extremely massive blow to the Russian army since he is their Chief of the General Staff. The guy that "died" is only a Major General, although that still is a blow.
 
kinnem said:
This was basically a case of the Poles calling Biden's diplomatic bluff. They pressed Poland to release the MIGs to Ukraine. The Poles said "No. But we'll give them to you and you can give them to Ukraine." And now, somehow, giving MIGs to Ukraine is a bad idea. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Let's remember, NATO is not the Warsaw Pact. The US leads but does not dictate to the other members. This may be a case of too much information getting out before the process has been agreed upon. I can certainly understand the Poles wanting this to be a NATO contribution.

I don't claim to understand the salient issues. I don't understand the difference between sending a dozen Polish MIGs and sending thousands of US stinger and javelin missiles. They are all sent for the same general purpose although their specific role in battle may be different.

Let's also remember that through the Obama, Trump and Biden administrations a formidable contribution to Ukraine defense forces has been the training in the specific tactics that are allowing the Ukrainians to hold the line for now. Much of that training has been done by Army Special Forces. If you look at their mission statement, it is a blue print for what is needed in the current situation. The Russians knew this and are feeling the effects of it.
 
kinnem said:
This was basically a case of the Poles calling Biden's diplomatic bluff. They pressed Poland to release the MIGs to Ukraine. The Poles said "No. But we'll give them to you and you can give them to Ukraine." And now, somehow, giving MIGs to Ukraine is a bad idea. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair I was nervous about this prior to the Poles saying, “you give them the MIGs”.
It’s a tinderbox. The whole thing is.

But to be fair we aren’t alone in history in arming perceived underdogs.

Russia has their history with arming other countries.
 
I would imagine the discussion went something like this:

Poland - We can't directly aid a belligerent as we're not allied to them in any substantive way. We feel for them, but our laws, the political landscape...
USA - They really, REALLY could use those MIGs...
Poland - Well, we'll give our entire MIG fighter force to the USA for consideration in a deal for replacement aircraft, you know, to go with the F-16s we already have...I'm sure you have some spare '16s lying around someplace...we'd really like them to replace those old Soviet jets...and we're already trained on the 16s. And the pilots of the other country, they're already trained on the MIGs.
USA - Oh...well...uh, if you put it that way, the ramp at Ramstein is pretty big... (Now, how do we get them to the Ukrainian Air Force?)
 
Another beautiful thing about our Constitution and its call for peaceful transitions of power: If a leader like Putin somehow gets in, there is a defined path to exit in a matter of years...
 
Supersix00 said:
Another beautiful thing about our Constitution and its call for peaceful transitions of power: If a leader like Putin somehow gets in, there is a defined path to exit in a matter of years...
Click to expand...
Only if the citizens trust the election results.
 
Three words we are likely to become familiar with as the Ukrainian invasion grinds on:

Exclave
Oblast
Kaliningrad
 
EDelahanty said:
Three words we are likely to become familiar with as the Ukrainian invasion grinds on:

Exclave
Oblast
Kaliningrad
Click to expand...
Yet another territory that never ever was a part of the Russian Empire or the USSR until after WW2. The spoils of war.
 
EDelahanty said:
Three words we are likely to become familiar with as the Ukrainian invasion grinds on:

Exclave
Oblast
Kaliningrad
Click to expand...
ED, I usually bow not only to your rhetorical skills, but also to your breath and depth of knowledge. I do have to correct you. Kaliningrad is considered a semi-exclave because it is not totally surrounded by foreign territory.

It might also be a good time to introduce the geo-political feature Suwalki Gap.
 
I would not be surprised if Putin stops at the Dnieper River and declares victory, keeping the eastern part of the country plus his gains in the South. I don't think he has the troops to occupy the entire country.
 
Well I am not sure if it is the right decision. But it doesn’t s a decision. No Mig transfer from Poland to USA at Ramstein.
And the Dow moving upward. Correlation?
 
Heatherg21 said:
Well I am not sure if it is the right decision. But it doesn’t s a decision. No Mig transfer from Poland to USA at Ramstein.
And the Dow moving upward. Correlation?
Click to expand...
The Dow moving upward was based oil futures falling on signs that Opec is going to increase poduction.
 
I think the decision regarding the MIGs is based on the fact that the MIG 29 is an air superiority fighter. It is not the most important type of weapons system for Ukraine right now. Ukraine is mostly being attacked by armor and surface to surface missiles and artillery. Those are not what they an air superiority fighter is used against. The risk of provoking the Russians by supplying the MIGs is not worth their marginal utility.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
I think the decision regarding the MIGs is based on the fact that the MIG 29 is an air superiority fighter. It is not the most important type of weapons system for Ukraine right now. Ukraine is mostly being attacked by armor and surface to surface missiles and artillery. Those are not what they an air superiority fighter is used against. The risk of provoking the Russians by supplying the MIGs is not worth their marginal utility.
Click to expand...
Good explanation. Thank you. Now if we could only get the people food and medicine before the sieges get worse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top