Standards in Free Fall

[OldRetSWO]

Perhaps I did not say it correctly. The squandering I am referring to is in the 'chase' to be competitive in some, not ALL D 1 sports (think the 'co called lesser ones') I think based on your previous posts you probably know what I mean. In no way am I referring to squanderous behavior as it concerns the individual students overall.
As a fan, of course I want to see success on the field in FB. But as a taxpayer and citizen, I believe that this chase has the potential to get out of hand at the expense of mission readiness. I have the utmost respect for all the midshipmen. Although I am a vet, no I never attended an academy, far from it LOL. In my minds' eye though, as having gone to college, and having seen how D1 athletes were treated back then (a long while ago) I am having difficulty resolving things along these lines as it pertains to the service academies. Maybe I am wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I believe as a citizen and taxpayer that the mission of the DOD in our countries defense should always come first. Not saying that it isn't but I just wanted to re-iterate that.

I'll just comment here that I am one of many grads that despise the practice at USAFA and USMA of giving a bunch of football players an extra year so they had five seasons. Yes, NCAA allowed it because of COVID but since the rest of the Cadets/Mids did not get the extra year then football players should not either. The academies exist to produce OFFICERS and while athletes do get some benefits, an extra year to compete should not be one of them.
Thankfully, USNA did not give the extra year while USAFA and USMA did.

 

[a400831]

I agree with many of your statements. That said...

I'm careful not to marginalize the combat experiences of people I don't know. But you lecturing me about this is like a cadet lecturing you about it.

Please point out where I lectured you with direct quotes. I will wait.

You are correct: Robin Olds would ask "Why?" But for some questions, he just wouldn't because there ARE stupid questions.

Cool. We agree that the important thing is the "Why".

There are enlisted people who someday you may supervise and some of them have suffered terrible experiences growing up and/or went through tough initial entry training. They may be JTACs or PJs who went through the ringer. It may help your credibility with them if they knew you came down from your ivory tower and had gotten your hands dirty in a way that didn't involve flying a jet. They need to know your training suck factor was at least equal to their own, preferably greater. None will be impressed that you participate in "Silhouette Contests" whatever that is. I don't think that's too much to ask of a leader.

When I was down range I supervised a group of Mx for the entire deployment and I was out there running jets up with them at 0200 night after night by choice. My team received significant recognition for our accomplishments and I am very proud of the work that we as a team executed. Please tell me where I am in this "ivory tower". Everyone that has worked with me would disagree with you. And guess what? They know me. You do not. That is just one example. I have gone above and beyond in my career field to get my hands dirty. I will caution you again, do not assume anything about my experiences just like I will not assume anything about you.

Anyway, the picture you painted of you tearing holes in the sky and flying over contested islands is interesting. But guess what? The last time we fought in the 1st and 2nd Island Chains, for the first few months, US fighter pilots did virtually all of their fighting with a rifle, leading ground crews as infantry against highly skilled enemy ground troops. With tragic results. So maybe doing some high/low crawling and otherwise learning how to embrace the suck might be good for every aspiring officer, regardless of the readiness rates of their future airframes. You like research so read Doomed at the Start and Pacific Alamo.

Cool. The next war is going to have horrible losses for both ground and air troops. I have not portrayed the next war inaccurately.

Kudos for berating doolies for wanting grittier training. Apparently, your posts will be the toughest, most challenging thing they endure this year.

I tell it how it is. I do not care if you don't like it.

I hope your next assignment is as an ALO.

It's not, pilots no longer do ALO tours. However, thank you for wishing my career ill. I appreciate it.

If I've inaccurately characterized anything let me know.

You have in-accurately characterized every word I have said, while making insulting assumptions about my conduct as a leader. This is me letting you know. I have said zero ill words towards you or your experiences. If you have any more words of wisdom feel free to direct message me.

Cheers.

 

[104FW_QA]

F/A-18 and F-16 have other missions beside battlefield close air support and are faster/more maneuverable and hopefully more survivable than A-10. Apache is different in some ways but probably sill more survivable through use of terrain and mission selection.

The A-10 has other missions beside battlefield close air support as well, that is just what it is `best known for. F/A-18 and F-16 are indeed faster, but they are less maneuverable, at least in the turning realm. Yes some models of the Apache have that periscope that lets them hide behind terrain, but the A-10 can use terrain just as effectively, is much faster, can travel much farther and carry more munitions. Not trying to take anything away from the F/A-18/ F-16, or Apache all have unique capabilities and are valuable tools, but none of them are any more survivable than the flying tank that is the A-10.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Not trying to take anything away from the F/A-18/ F-16, or Apache all have unique capabilities and are valuable tools, but none of them are any more survivable than the flying tank that is the A-10.

How much do you know about the installed EW equipment on the different aircraft? I'm not going to go any further into this but there are vast differences in the onboard electronics between them and that has a lot to do with the why here.

If you take away the low and slow Close Air Support mission set from the A-10, F/A-18 and F-16 then that does leave a number of missions where the speed agility, electronics, weapons set, etc of the 16 and 18 are in a very different class than the A-10.

 

[104FW_QA]

How much do you know about the installed EW equipment on the different aircraft? I'm not going to go any further into this but there are vast differences in the onboard electronics between them and that has a lot to do with the why here.

If you take away the low and slow Close Air Support mission set from the A-10, F/A-18 and F-16 then that does leave a number of missions where the speed agility, electronics, weapons set, etc of the 16 and 18 are in a very different class than the A-10.

Outside of the Aesa radar and any of the wild weasel/Growler specific model electronics, yes I do know quite a bit about the installed EW equipment on them and stand by my statement.

 

[greenfield1]

I am a SMC cadet but we experience some of the same issues apparent at USAFA. Every year you hear cadets say "it's gotten way easier this year," "these kids have no idea what it used to be like," etc. There is some truth to those statements but it is a give and take between staff and cadet leadership. It’s a continuous ebb and flow. What remains the same to me is that it is the obligation of the upperclassman cadre to do the best they can to train freshmen to a high standard within the left and right bounds they were given, which I have no doubt the cadets over at USAFA did during recognition.

It seems wrong to say that we cannot train freshmen to a standard and give them a basic understanding of what it means to be a cadet and a future officer without having to fall back on shouting and physical training. Both of those are absolutely necessary and important training tools - being able to think under immense pressure is critical and saves lives. But if those options are removed and you just cannot think of any other way to get freshmen to buy in and believe in something, how will you as an officer get your subordinates to buy in when you cannot fall back on yelling and PT? Nothing about you as a person changes when you put the butter bars on your shoulders. The way you lead today will be how you lead when you are commissioned. I would rather be the type of leader that my people follow because they know I care about them and their success and development, not because they know I could turn around and rip into them at any moment.

I admit I am only a SMC cadet and do not have a complete understanding of how USAFA and the other academies operate. But we have the same problems with discipline, intensity, etc. at my school that USAFA cadets seem to be having. And despite that, every day I see cadets here step up and fulfill the obligation to train the freshmen in the standard we want them to follow. I know there are academy cadets doing the same at their schools.

What your freshmen see you think and do is what they believe will be acceptable in the future. They are watching and learning even when you think they are not. It is the obligation of the cadre to make the most of what they are given. You cannot change what the staff has decided will be the left and right bounds. You can make the best of it and give the freshmen the best possible training. It's hard. There will be good leaders and bad leaders. But you decide what type you want to be. You decide whether you want to gripe and complain or whether you want to put your big kid pants on and give the freshmen something to believe in even when people are saying that all standards have been lost.

Staff may set the restrictions. But cadets set the standard.

 

[Stormbird]

I'm a grad and I was shocked at all the beards and unkempt uniforms. A squadronmate of mine was at his Reunion and during the football game, he went to use the restroom when a group of cadets were using profanity and acting in a less than respectable manner. Buddy said something to him and they squared up to him and told him to "F-Off." He said.."Hey..I'm a grad and a Lt Col." They told him to "F-off" and then walked away. He was simply rendered speechless.

I had the same experience at Arnold Hall and at a summer program with Cadets. I was literally left speechless also
I faced off with one of them and let him know it wasn't going to end there The OP is not a one-off, this is rampant.

This is not a pendulum swinging, this is a societal problem, and an officer leadership problem at the Air Force Academy and if you think Cadets are going to fix this on their own you're sadly mistaken- they need leadership from the officer Corps.

 

[flieger83]

I had the same experience at Arnold Hall and at a summer program with Cadets. I was literally left speechless also
I faced off with one of them and let him know it wasn't going to end there The OP is not a one-off, this is rampant.

This is not a pendulum swinging, this is a societal problem, and an officer leadership problem at the Air Force Academy and if you think Cadets are going to fix this on their own you're sadly mistaken- they need leadership from the officer Corps.

I saw a lot of that during my reunion last September. Two weeks prior I was there with my JROTC cadets and they were appalled and asked why our standards were higher than USAFA's.

I had no answer.

 

[Stormbird]

I saw a lot of that during my reunion last September. Two weeks prior I was there with my JROTC cadets and they were appalled and asked why our standards were higher than USAFA's.

I had no answer.

I'll just say what I told my son when he thought he was going to leave because of how much it had changed from what I had told him to expect.

You can quit but if you think it's going to be different at any other school you will be disappointed.

If you think the system is broken then it's going to require you and those like you to stay and fix it. You can help fix it either as a Cadet in a leadership position or an officer in a leadership position .

Bailing out is the same as surrendering. Fortunately that word is not in his lexicon.