Start enlistment process, or wait for USNA?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by EOD/SEALmom, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. EOD/SEALmom

    EOD/SEALmom Member

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    Hello, DD is a candidate for USNA class of 2020. Application is complete, just waiting for nomination/appointment (very hopeful!). She has no interest in ROTC or the typical college route, but her plan if she's not offered an appointment is to enlist in the Navy, an to reapply to USNA next year.

    The local recruiter wants her to proceed with the enlistment process now, saying that the enlistment is simply dropped if she attends USNA. But she's worried that it could hurt her chances at USNA if she proceeds. She's a senior, graduates this spring.

    Any thoughts on starting enlistment? Should she wait until she knows from USNA?
     
  2. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Warning! Warning! I have never, ever, heard of an enlistment being dropped if one is appointed to a SA. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I have heard that recruiters will say anything to get you to sign on the dotted line, but that is definitely a new one on me.

    To answer your question, why in the world would she enlist right now before she graduates? If she is going delayed entry, she has to wait until the spring to go to basic training anyway. That will be about the time she will most likely find out about USNA. Why the rush?

    Your DD sounds like she just wants to serve and that is okay. The Navy needs top notch enlisted people too. But she needs to look long and hard at the job and responsibility she wants to have while serving.

    My opinion is to wait. She can enlist anytime, but once she signs the contract, she is obligated. And, I believe it is much more difficult to apply to USNA while enlisted, but it can be done. She needs to take a step back and weigh all the pros and cons of both. She certainly should not feel pressured by the recruiter to make any decision in a hurry, cuz there is no hurry.
     
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  3. proudofmyboy

    proudofmyboy Member

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    While in Delayed entry, she can walk. Once she steps into the MEPS on Shipping day, she is an enlisted sailor. All bets are off.
     
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  4. Ellerman

    Ellerman Member

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    I agree w/ FalconsRock. My advice is to wait it out. Once you enlist, the process to applying opens up a whole new can of worms. Especially during the first year of enlistment considering all of the schooling and MOS pipelines (I've tried).

    However, as for applying right out of high school vs enlisting and then applying, I personally think it depends on the applicants package. When I was applying straight out of school, I had pretty much no shot w/ a 3.42GPA and some other lacking areas which made my application mediocre. After enlisting, I've worked hard and was able to bring an entirely new package to the table that the ones right out of school can't have.

    Coming from someone who has successfully applied and gotten accepted into NAPS while enlisted, I would definitely wait. There are quite a few number of hoops that you have to jump through to get there. Like said above, it is more difficult to just finish the application while enlisted so there is no need to rush.

    When it comes to the recruiters and their knowledge of the SAs, I wouldn't listen to a thing.
    I hope this can be of help.
     
  5. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I am not so sure.

    I know for West Point, an appointment trumps all other miltiary obligation. It's like a transfer order instead of going to basic training reporting to Annapolis. I have worked with a candidate that was attending the Army Individual Training that went to West Point. The only caveat is if the cadet separates from West Point , he or she is still responsible for any remaining service obligation. I can't see Navy being too different from Army. The question should asked to the Admissions office
    While I tend to agree that there is no hurry, depends on what she is enlisting for, signing the contract now might guarantee the speciality, right starting time, and/or bonus (subject to collection if DD ends up at Annapolis).
     
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  6. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    An appointment trumps all other obligations. But there is no rush at this point. Her recruiter is going to promise alot. Before signing a single document I would highly advise to talk to an officer recruiter and bounce things off them. And he will probably pressure to get certain rates as MemberLG mentions. I am assuming she scored really high on her ASVAB and has most jobs open to her. I am buddies with the local Commanding Officer for recruiting where I live and he said enlistment is getting tougher, but for those highly qualified they still have a tough time filling nuke and intel type billets. To be honest she will know from USNA in the Jan-April time frame. Let that process play out before committing to any enlistment. I advise any kid going this route to be prepared to serve their entire enlistment. First off, she may not be able to apply her first year. She may still be in A school and not have the time or have the support for a CO's endorsement. Some of these tougher schools such as nuke and intel, can be very long (6-12 months). So she needs to be prepared that her first reapplication might not be until year 2 of her enlistment and that would be if she has garnered enough time and support from her CO for an endorsement. There are some rates that tend to be better feeders into USNA than others. They fall into the prior category, but most are pulled directly for their maturity and academic standing at nuke school. Most of them have never touched foot into the actual fleet. I never tell a kid which way to go if they don't get in year 1, but I always let them know the pros, cons and risks.
     
  7. time2

    time2 Member

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    Local recruiting offices may say any number of things to make their quotas. There are many older threads on this topics, the majority of them do NOT recommend enlisting if your goal is to attend USNA and/or become an officer in the military. Enlisting does not guarantee an appointment to USNA.

    You weren't specific enough on why your daughter doesn't want to consider the ROTC option. Many h.s. applicants consider that as their primary plan "B" option.
     
  8. EOD/SEALmom

    EOD/SEALmom Member

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    Thanks for the replies! DD is a Sea Cadet, currently E-3, soon to be petty officer. She's done quite a few Sea Cadet trainings and loves every minute of it. She is not interested in ROTC because she does not want to switch back and forth between military/student life - she really wants to be "all-in" the military. Her passion for USNA is not for the college aspect, but because she loves the Navy environment there. She was invited for a CVW last Feb., which confirmed it for her - she absolutely loved it. She's mature for her age and has no patience for typical teenage drama - I can't imagine her going to college with ROTC and having roommates going to keg parties, ha ha.

    Her end goal is SEALs (when/if it opens to women), with EOD as her second choice. She's spoken with the recruiting officer a few times, and she took the practice ASVAB; she did ok on it but can do better and wants to take her time to study for the real test. She's aware that if she's not offered an appointment and enlists for what she wants to do (SEAL/EOD), that it might be year 2 of enlistment before she could reapply since she'd be at BUDs. (She's also aware that her goals mean going to BUDs after USNA).

    A few people she knows are enlisting, and many of them are not getting the offers they want, even with high ASVAB scores. This is her concern and why she's pondering starting enlistment process now. The recruiting officer is putting the pressure on her.
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Make sure she understands the process of applying while she is serving in the military. It's different than the high school scholarship as far as I understand it.
     
  10. Rocket17

    Rocket17 Member

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    "...Warning! Warning!..."

    +1 what FalconsRock said!

    I beat the draft with my appointment but... Best wait! Contracts are, well, contracts.
     
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  11. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    No decision that will affect the rest of her life should be made under pressure and recruiters are really good at pouring it on. Ask me how I know? It's almost like buying a car and being pressured to pay more than you want; you just have to get up, say "no thank you" and walk away. Your DD should take her time in making her decision. The recruiter really could care less whether or not it is the right decision for your DD; their goal is to get her to enlist. That is their number one goal.
     
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  12. Rocket17

    Rocket17 Member

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    Exactly correct, IMHO.

    Do not enlist under pressure.
     
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  13. hokiesfan

    hokiesfan Member

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    Has she considered one of the Senior Military Colleges? She might find one of those to be a good fit as an alternative to Annapolis, if only for a year as she reapplies. Having known of a couple of people now stuck in the ranks after they tried what your daughter is considering, I don't know that it's worth the risk.
     
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  14. landlock

    landlock Member

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    What are the senior military colleges?
     
  15. Ellerman

    Ellerman Member

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    I believe hokiesfan is talking about colleges like The Citadel, Virginia Military Institute, Texas A&M and a couple others.
     
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  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Ellerman is right, SMCs are colleges that have a Corps of Cadets. It is a closer life to an SA than a traditional college.
    I will only use VT as an example. The students live in a specified dorm for the Corps of Cadets.
    ~ Unlike traditional dorms, they are more strict like an SA regarding personal items, such as tvs, mini-fridges, etc. They have room inspections.
    They will be part of both the Corps of Cadets and ROTC. You cannot be in ROTC without being in the Corps of Cadets.

    I believe there are 7 SMCs nationally.
     
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  17. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    There are six SMC's
    VMI, The Citadel, Virginia Tech, Texas A & M, University of North Georgia and Norwich.
    They all charge tuition but are public colleges. They are only AROTC programs that assure active duty army for AROTC graduates, so long as approved by the PMS.

    Unlike Service Academies, there is no obligation to join the military upon graduation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College
     
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  18. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    To add to gokings814 regarding tuition, Texas A&M will waive the OOS tuition, "A non-resident student who holds a competitive academic scholarship of at least $1000 (or the amount required for eligibility by the Texas Education Code) for the academic year or summer for which the student is enrolled may be eligible to pay the fees and charges required of Texas residents without regard to the length of time the student has resided in Texas. They also give outstanding scholarships to National Merit Finalists.

    If you want more information, follow this link:

    https://scholarships.tamu.edu/Non-Resident-Tuition-Waiver
     
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  19. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Can you clarify? Its seems like too much power to the PMS.
     
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  20. JaxNavymom

    JaxNavymom Member

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    My husband who is a Naval aviator and graduate of USNA said RUN! It will be 2-3 years before you can apply to USNA once you enlist. He also was curious what rate she is looking at enlisting as. Nukes have the best chance of being picked up for NAPS or Academy. Sailors who enlist and then go to the academy typically do great so it can be a good option but if you are only enlisting to be accepted at USNA going the Foundation route is a better option. Best of luck!
     
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