Surgery to be ready in time for this year's LDAC???

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by agp312, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. agp312

    agp312 Member

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    Wondering if anyone can weigh in with thoughts about how this will be evaluated regarding son's future…
    Son has possibly re-injured ACL graft from high school football event. Was completely cleared and go to go. Full ROTC scholarship to stellar school. On school FTX, knee blew again (most likely really happened from AirBorne School this summer). To be 100%, surgery would be necessary. To be ready to go for a June 1 LDAC, surgery would need to be now.
    With the Army looking for any and all reasons not to commission our guys to Active duty, son is really thinking about gutting it out at 80% - so not ideal!
    Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you!
     
  2. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    DS also saw some bad injuries to others at Airborne school. And one guy actually landed in someone's swimming pool. I would have your DS seek advice from Cadre and especially PMS. Provide them great clarity on what doctor's are saying. DS always got very good guidence from them. I (my very uneducated opinion) think he should have surgery as soon as possible. 80% can also cause other injuries. Keep in mind that he could always do LDAC after senior year. 100% is probably best not just for LDAC but especially after commissioning.

    Good Luck to him
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 Norwich

    I would def. have him talk to his cadre now because by regs., at least AFROTC, any time there is a change in their medical condition they are to inform them as soon as it occurs. If the ortho says surgery, than get surgery done. I would ask the cadre if they could find/recommend a DoDMERB qualified ortho, this way if the surgery causes a DQ, and requires a waiver he has a DoDMERB doc on his medical records saying he meets the stds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  4. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    I'm sure its in the contract somewhere but I have a question...

    If a cadet is injured while training would the surgery and PT be covered by the military?
     
  5. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Actually that is not something discussed in the ROTC Scholarship Cadet Contract. What IS discussed is his obligation to report in a timely way any change in medical status since the past exam.

    My opinion is that since an ROTC cadet is not Active Duty, the military health plan does not apply. I wonder though about LDAC, Airborn, etc. where the cadet is paid at approx. E5 level for that training. If the cadet is being paid, isn't that a temporary Active status? Just asking. Which reminds me that the ROTC cadet in training is a lot like a college athlete being injured. In non-revenue sports, I think it is quite rare for a school to pick up the surgery costs for a player injured playing the sport. In my opinion, all college athletes (not Club, but NCAA sports the school fields) should be covered by some sort of college athlete mandatory workers compensation coverage. After all, the injury occurs while effectively working for the school's fundraising and PR departments, right? (for pay if Scholarship, not for Pay if non-scholarship)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  6. khergan

    khergan Member

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    I would be very careful when choosing to have a surgery. If Cadet Command gets ahold of it, it may be over a year before you are granted a waiver. The command surgeons office sat on my waiver for many months before I was finally granted a waiver and given the go ahead. I almost didn't commission because of it.

    So - that being said, if the surgery is required, I would do it, but understand the risk. LDAC might get bumped back another year if you don't get the waiver.

    The question becomes whether or not surgery is needed for LDAC. Honestly, LDAC isn't that physical. You run only twice during the whole period, and the only physically stressful portion is maybe patrolling, and that's a few days. STX is done with an assault pack and very little weight, and most of the other activities aren't weight-bearing.
     
  7. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Yeah, that's my thought too. There is also the possibility that this cadet will not be granted a waiver by the DODMERB if the doctors there decide the ACL just isn't fit for duty after the 2nd surgery. Sorry to be a downer but that is a possibility and it would be good for you to have a Plan B in place if that happens (needing to get a civilian job after college).
     
  8. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    I can shed some light on this question. My daughter injured her knee at LDAC. During the time a cadet is on active duty, such as LDAC or an FTX, they are covered by Tricare, the Army's active duty insurance plan. For example, Tricare paid for an MRI that was done during LDAC. However, once off active duty care is provided under a federal workers compensation program. Getting care in this program also involves review of all treatment plans by a 3rd party contractor.

    In the city my daughter goes to college in not a single ortho doc would treat her based on the low level of reimbursement. That is discouraging. She is now being treated by a provider 80 miles away. Fortunately her cadre are very supportive with arranging rides, etc.

    The other frustrating part is that the shut-down affected the worker comp program. She has been waiting for weeks to get them to confirm payment for her surgery, which is required before the provider will schedule the surgery.

    Going through this experience leads me to strongly encourage anyone injured during an ROTC active duty period to look seriously at using private insurance to pay for treatment. It will probably cost more but that has to be weighed against the hassles and limitations that come with the worker's comp approach.
     
  9. AROTC Parent

    AROTC Parent Member

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    Workers Compensation versus Family/Personal Medical Insurance. The problem using Family/Personal Insurance is most won't pay if they determine the injury occurred in military training......iadt or adt.

    Keep pestering the Workers Compensation representative to approve treatment and force payments to care providers. It is a horrible process and requires significant oversight by a parent that can represent the cadet/patient/student.
     
  10. AROTC Parent

    AROTC Parent Member

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    mariner116,

    Just wondering --was the medical coverage at LDAC with Tricare off JBLM or at the Medical Treatment Facility (Madigan Hospital) on JBLM?

    My cadet's injury at an FTX including the ER visit was covered by workers compensation not Tricare.
     
  11. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Yes, you are covered by Workers Comp if injured during training. They paid for everything for my injury.

    At LDAC, they go to Madigan.
     
  12. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    All my kids were required by their colleges to prove that they had health insurance. They have it. I was thinking that I (if I was in this situation) would use my private insurance. The coverage is better than tri care. But I can see the private insurance companies taking this position that the injury should be covered by the Army. This is a tough situation. I think though if it was not reported and documented at LDAC then the privates would cover it.
     
  13. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    The medical coverage at LDAC (and during LDAC) was provided at Madigan.
     
  14. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    one of the forms your cadet signed was the CC Form 136r. If you google it you will find the answer to the injury/ medical care question. I call this the "if we break you, we will fix you" form.

    As far as surgery before LDAC, if you have something that changes your DODMERB status (injury, surgery, ER visit) you will have to report that as part of the pre camp process. You are going to sign a statement that says either your medical status has or has not changed since your DODMERB physical. You will also go through a medical screening at camp. If it is something significant the CC surgeon may have to do a medical determination before you can attend camp.

    I would be cautious about the advice regarding camp not being rigorous. No one knows what camp is going to look like this summer. I know the Commander has some big ideas about ratcheting up the Camp rigor. You don't want to be attending camp at less than top shape.


    I'm wondering where you are getting this impression that the Army is looking for reasons not to commission someone into the active force. The number of active slots is going to go down, but the Army is still going to need quality Officers in all the components, so this statement really doesn't make sense. We are not going to commission someone who can't meet the medical standards into the Army, period. That's not a reason we need to go looking for.

    Bottom line...talk to your cadre about your situation. Bad news doesn't get better with age.
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Nice turn of phrase. so true.
     
  16. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    I would get the surgery. If he gets medically DQ oh well. There is more to life than the military and if he doesn't get it treated in a timely fashion he will feel the devastating effects later on in life. I have seen men in there 40s who by all other means are healthy and in shape walk like they are 80 because of untreated ACL problems. Continuing to grind on an injury which WILL be exacerbated at LDAC doesn't seem wise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  17. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Tricare and Madigan, they will do emergency surgeries and routine fixes but most likely nothing else. If you aren't cleared to train by the docs you go back home and follow up with your PCP. Happens all the time.

    The bulk of consults at Madigan are flight physical related
     
  18. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Clarkson, what is the procedure for the cadet arranging an exam for possible surgery for an injury that occurred at FTX and is not healing on its own? If a cadet was DODMERB waivered into ROTC despite the prior surgery graft, and now is injured at the same location, will the Army still pick up the tab on a corrective surgery if needed?
     
  19. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    As an addendum I am not offering medical advice just saying my ability to walk and function later in life is more important than a military career. Like others have said even if he isn't ready for LDAC in time its not uncommon for people to go their Senior year.

    If another surgery would result in a DQ I would follow up with the CC surgeon for more guidance.
     
  20. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    All I know is this all falls under workman's comp. Our HRA handles these issues. I think it's probably going to require filing a claim, and then submitting bills. The Cadet should be working with the Battalion if they think they have a claim.

    I'm not the expert, especially since I'm the kind of guy that never goes to the doctor. Even the bill for a checkup confuses me.
     

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